Techdeth
RESIDENT ROCK PROFESSOR
My point is you can not get dimes classic tone without a wizard or tube amp . That’s all .
Dime 40 watt Warhead mini amps.....Did the designers achieve old Randall RG100ES feel and tones?
311splawndude
Well-known member
Nah, you really can't. Beleive me I've tried. You can get a relatively unsophisticated widening effect with a standard delay if you set one side to 100% wet and anywhere from like 3-20 ms of digital delay, which might honestly work fine if that's the only way you'll ever hear the track, but that technique immediately fails and collapses the guitar into notchy phase cancellation if the tracks are bounced down and panned with each other, or if the track is played in mono.
A Mimiq pedal does a whole lot more subtle things to make it actually sound almost just like two human players. If you use it right (at the beginning of the chain and then into two separate rigs), it won't phase cancel itself if the tracks are bounced together or panned with each other, just like two real tracks won't.
@Beyond Black If you set the Tightness dial as high as possible, it stays as tight as any double-tracked-by-humans guitar line.
One thing I'd like to point out is that in this video, Ola is using a Mimiq Mini, which has only one mono output. IMO the Mini version is almost worthless and really nothing like the standard pedal. In the Mini format, it's basically just a strange kind of chorus effect. The real point of the Mimiq is to split the raw guitar into two signals, then send those signals to different amps so each can generate distortion separately. The Mini version doesn't let you split the signal at all so you'll either be running an effectively chorused guitar signal into one amp, or an effectively chrosed sounding preamp into a poweramp, which I guess can be cool, but it doesn't emulate double tracking like the real Mimiq pedal does.
edit: Ok I watched Ola's video. Turns out he's using the Mimiq Mini the one correct way it can be used, with the Dry set to zero!
^This
As mentioned the TC Electronics Mimiq uses an algorithm that randomly adjusts these in and outs in milliseconds and swings them back and forth
I would generally agree that the pedal is much more fun with 2 amps. But then again, so is everything
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311splawndude
Well-known member
Can you just post your best metal mimiq clip ploix?
DanTravis62
Moderator
I'm with @Techdeth on this, you can 1000% hear the wizard sound on those recordings - it's not the bulk of the sound, sure, the randalls are obviously doing the heavy lifting, but the wizard is all of the "smoothness" and "juicyness" you hear in those tones.
I love the SS randall sound, too, and moreso for other artists than dirtnap darrell, but once you really listen for it the wizard is unmistakable in his guitar tracks on those records
I love the SS randall sound, too, and moreso for other artists than dirtnap darrell, but once you really listen for it the wizard is unmistakable in his guitar tracks on those records
Techdeth
RESIDENT ROCK PROFESSOR
It’s honestly why I got a wizard
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harddriver
Well-known member
The point of contention is Dimes classic core tone. You feel that Dime's core tone is from the Wizard amp probably a 90's Metal 100.
If Dime could only get his core tone from the Wizard then why does all of Dimes live tones with the Randall's sound just like the albums since he only used the Randalls live according to Vinnie????
So yes.......I have completely agreed to get Dimes exact studio tones 100% you need to layer in a Wizard or Tube amp of some sort but his core tones come directly from the Randall RG100ES and Century 200's and this is directly confirmed by the article you posted here to bolster your viewpoint about the Wizard and I will quote it verbatim.
"He always blended just a little bit of tube amp in with his solid state amps in the studio, but he never used the tube amps live with Pantera."
If you dig the Wizard tones that's great..... Dimes core tone was the Randalls and all the live clips prove that...end of story. I still think even if you used your modern Wizard MTL for a medley of Pantera songs the Randall would sound more correct and exactly like the Dime tones we associate with Pantera and Dime.
I would love to hear a clip of your Wizard MTL doing Pantera and since you still have your RG100ES it would be a cool video to hear the differences.
All Randall's here live.........sounds just like the albums doesn't it?
Beyond Black
Well-known member
The point of contention is Dimes classic core tone. You feel that Dime's core tone is from the Wizard amp probably a 90's Metal 100.
If Dime could only get his core tone from the Wizard then why does all of Dimes live tones with the Randall's sound just like the albums since he only used the Randalls live according to Vinnie????
So yes.......I have completely agreed to get Dimes exact studio tones 100% you need to layer in a Wizard or Tube amp of some sort but his core tones come directly from the Randall RG100ES and Century 200's and this is directly confirmed by the article you posted here to bolster your viewpoint about the Wizard and I will quote it verbatim.
"He always blended just a little bit of tube amp in with his solid state amps in the studio, but he never used the tube amps live with Pantera."
If you dig the Wizard tones that's great..... Dimes core tone was the Randalls and all the live clips prove that...end of story. I still think even if you used your modern Wizard MTL for a medley of Pantera songs the Randall would sound more correct and exactly like the Dime tones we associate with Pantera and Dime.
I would love to hear a clip of your Wizard MTL doing Pantera and since you still have your RG100ES it would be a cool video to hear the differences.
All Randall's here live.........sounds just like the albums doesn't it?
Nailed it. I saw Pantera on the CFH tour and every tour after that and his tone was always unmistakably his signature Randall tone. Whatever the Wizards were bringing to his recorded tones was subtle at best.
TheGreatGreen
Well-known member
The point of contention is Dimes classic core tone. You feel that Dime's core tone is from the Wizard amp probably a 90's Metal 100.
If Dime could only get his core tone from the Wizard then why does all of Dimes live tones with the Randall's sound just like the albums since he only used the Randalls live according to Vinnie????
So yes.......I have completely agreed to get Dimes exact studio tones 100% you need to layer in a Wizard or Tube amp of some sort but his core tones come directly from the Randall RG100ES and Century 200's and this is directly confirmed by the article you posted here to bolster your viewpoint about the Wizard and I will quote it verbatim.
"He always blended just a little bit of tube amp in with his solid state amps in the studio, but he never used the tube amps live with Pantera."
If you dig the Wizard tones that's great..... Dimes core tone was the Randalls and all the live clips prove that...end of story. I still think even if you used your modern Wizard MTL for a medley of Pantera songs the Randall would sound more correct and exactly like the Dime tones we associate with Pantera and Dime.
I would love to hear a clip of your Wizard MTL doing Pantera and since you still have your RG100ES it would be a cool video to hear the differences.
All Randall's here live.........sounds just like the albums doesn't it?
I know this isn't what this post is about but was that footage from some bootleg live album or something? No way it was just recorded by some fan. That audio feed sounds direct from the board.
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Techdeth
RESIDENT ROCK PROFESSOR
The point of contention is Dimes classic core tone. You feel that Dime's core tone is from the Wizard amp probably a 90's Metal 100.
If Dime could only get his core tone from the Wizard then why does all of Dimes live tones with the Randall's sound just like the albums since he only used the Randalls live according to Vinnie????
So yes.......I have completely agreed to get Dimes exact studio tones 100% you need to layer in a Wizard or Tube amp of some sort but his core tones come directly from the Randall RG100ES and Century 200's and this is directly confirmed by the article you posted here to bolster your viewpoint about the Wizard and I will quote it verbatim.
"He always blended just a little bit of tube amp in with his solid state amps in the studio, but he never used the tube amps live with Pantera."
If you dig the Wizard tones that's great..... Dimes core tone was the Randalls and all the live clips prove that...end of story. I still think even if you used your modern Wizard MTL for a medley of Pantera songs the Randall would sound more correct and exactly like the Dime tones we associate with Pantera and Dime.
I would love to hear a clip of your Wizard MTL doing Pantera and since you still have your RG100ES it would be a cool video to hear the differences.
All Randall's here live.........sounds just like the albums doesn't it?
Many times dime used other heads live . But put them behind . You can see videos on the cowboys tour of his using a Marshall Valbestate . Watch the foundation forum video . Dime ENDORSED Randall. Many times live he used other heads . I also don’t think his live tone sounded like the studio. That always bothered me . It’s a cool tone though
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harddriver
Well-known member
People are using AI to clean up audio from old shows....Maybe that's why it sounds a little clearer. There was an entire show that someone cleaned up the audio and it was killer. I posted it here not long ago, I'll try to find it.
I found the thread that Spiderwars posted the video and the video has been removed........that's too bad it was killer.
This guy must have used some kind of AI to filter out the noise and Isolate the band out of the PA, that's the cleanest live Pantera recording I've ever heard where Dime tone is so present and clear. I liked how you can hear Rex's bassline jams as well!
Very Cool Spider..... thanks for posting that!
Very Cool Spider..... thanks for posting that!
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harddriver
Well-known member
I fully respect your views but I don't want this discussion to turn into a VH1 mystery amp thread about live tone and studio tones but you are really contorting yourself to validate your point about the Wizards.
I'm not just commenting without having played the entire Dime rig for years and alot of other guys on this board have as well and they will tell you the Randall's are the tone... it just is. I could post tons of Randall videos from YT nailing the Dime tone but it would just clutter the thread and beleaguer the point already made with videos already posted.
I've owned and Randall HT100 an 1988 and 1989 RG100ES and with the MXR 6band, Furman PQ3, Noise Gate of your choice with a BL USA or Wilde L500XL into a V30 cabinet it was Dime tone through and through every time.....Dime tone live was consistent with Pantera.....Randalls.
Also if Dime thought the Wizards were his tone why did he go to Tony Krank to have the Krankenstein built for him. Case in point also is the Krankenstein tube amp was a big departure in Classic Dime tone when he stopped using the Randalls......for good or bad.
This sound nothing like his Randall tone.....Can you hear the difference?
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harddriver
Well-known member
Vinnie even says as much in the interview that mentions the Wizard. With all the Dime Randall RG100ES videos all over youtube nailing the tones over and over it just is irrefutable fact about what amps gave Dime his tone. I'm sure the Wizard or other tubes amp helped fill the overall mixed tones some... alot of studios do that, but the Wizard or other tube amps were not his core tone.
"He always blended just a little bit of tube amp in with his solid state amps in the studio, but he never used the tube amps live with Pantera."
Techdeth
RESIDENT ROCK PROFESSOR
Show me a video on YouTube where someone nails dimes tine with an rg 100 rig and I’ll see a video that does not sound like dime . I don’t even think Ola gets dimes tone with rg100 . Just fan boys who say it does . I totally disagree that these YouTube videos sound like dime . But it’s all good .this is a fun convo . Clsssic dime tone
RaceU4her
Well-known member
I’ll do a clip with my century, I’ve done some with my rg but I don’t know I’ve done a pantera clip with my century
RaceU4her
Well-known member
Think I deleted them cleaning out my box
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harddriver
Well-known member
I've posted enough videos that illustrate where Dime's core tone was coming from already. You don't hear it because you don't want to hear it because you have a preconceived conclusion regarding the Wizard.
You are the one that has made the claim the his tone was from a Wizard yet I can't find a single clip of a Wizard nailing Dimes tones not even the newer Wizard MTL's I've looked. You have both a Wizard MTL and and old RG100ES why not do a shootout between them, but you have to use Dimes entire signal chain into the Randall to make it fair....
Post me just one Wizard clip nailing Dime tones better than a Randall and I will retract any and all statements that Dimes core tone was Randall RG100ES's and Randall Century 200's. Then I will post up some more YT RG100ES and Century clips.
Carpet covered Randalls...................1991, how many Wizards were in production in 1991????? Your Wizard MTL will not sound like this 1991 video.
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Techdeth
RESIDENT ROCK PROFESSOR
I’ll make a video sometime . Just listen to to the set of shred . The main riff is so wizard.
Dude I wanted to not like the wizard because it was too much money lol . But it’s the only way to get the real razor sharp attack . None of these live shows have that . Listen to 101 proof live . That tone sounds nothing like the sound in reality . And the tone on reinventing the steal blows without the wizard . So tiny and smaller in the mix . But it’s still ok
Fine did the fans a diservice to the hardcore fans by hiding his use of tube amps . Classic dime does need the wizard . That’s all I’m saying man .
RaceU4her
Well-known member
this is from trendkill:
You've got a killer, brittle rhythm tone on this album. Have you changed your basic setup at all since the last record?
Kinda. I ended up using the old, carpeted Randall RG-100 head I recorded Cowboys From Hell with.
What happened to the Randall Century 200's you've been playing through for the longest time?
When we were jamming around and doing the demos I didn't bother to hook up my normal rig; I just wanted something that would do the job. So, we dragged in a bunch of my old shit and set it up. In addition to my RG-100 stack, I used an old Furman PQ-3 parametric EQ, which has a different gain structure from the PQ-4's I've got in my main rack, my blue MXR 6-band graphic EQ and a cheap little Boss Noise Gate. Then, when we did the demos, I was liking the way everything was sounding so I thought, "Don't fuck with it, there it is!"
And how many rhythm tracks did you record per song on Trendkill?
Just two. I used to try four, twelve or whatever. But less is definitely more, man. If you do too many it just gets cluttered up. The best thing to do is get two guitars doing a tight double and then turn the fuckers up!
You've got a killer, brittle rhythm tone on this album. Have you changed your basic setup at all since the last record?
Kinda. I ended up using the old, carpeted Randall RG-100 head I recorded Cowboys From Hell with.
What happened to the Randall Century 200's you've been playing through for the longest time?
When we were jamming around and doing the demos I didn't bother to hook up my normal rig; I just wanted something that would do the job. So, we dragged in a bunch of my old shit and set it up. In addition to my RG-100 stack, I used an old Furman PQ-3 parametric EQ, which has a different gain structure from the PQ-4's I've got in my main rack, my blue MXR 6-band graphic EQ and a cheap little Boss Noise Gate. Then, when we did the demos, I was liking the way everything was sounding so I thought, "Don't fuck with it, there it is!"
And how many rhythm tracks did you record per song on Trendkill?
Just two. I used to try four, twelve or whatever. But less is definitely more, man. If you do too many it just gets cluttered up. The best thing to do is get two guitars doing a tight double and then turn the fuckers up!
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harddriver
Well-known member
So you are saying DIME doesn't have DIME tone in this 1991 video that is all Randalls or is he hiding Wizards behind the Randall stacks that are mic'd?
Your article already said straight from Vinnie he never used the Wizards live, EVER. Please stop.....you aren't going to win this.
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harddriver
Well-known member
1993 Wizard Metal.
