Explain modes to me. :)

[Tawlks]

I'm having a little trouble understanding modes. =/ I don't need to know the advanced stuff.

 

[satchmo72]

The best explanation I have seen is Frank Gambales Modes-No More Mystery. He walks you through each one, explaining why they are different.

 

[glpg80]

it allows you to place the guitar neck in what is called tones or tonai

there is a pattern that repeats for each key.

you have:

ABCDEFGA
BCDEFGAB
CDEFGABC
DEFGABCD
EFGABCDE
FGABCDEF
GABCDEFG

now, relative major or minor of a certain key depends on the minor or major of notes within a tone or mode. the key of A natural minor is the first one in the list above. simply A to A - which is a mode called Aeolian (also sounds simillar to C major)

you are basically hitting the notes to go from A-A and hit the notes in between either minor or major which dictates the type of sound you want out of the guitar solo/run or lick (minor or sad sounding. up front, proper, or happy is major). there are relative patterns to playing each which you will learn eather by accident or on purpose by the books.

B is Locrian, Bb is the same as A# ***
C is Ionian, Cb is the same as B
D is Dorian, Db is the same as C#
E is phrygian, Eb is the same as D#
F is Lydian, Fb or F flat is the same as E
G is Mixolydian (sp?), Gb is the same as F#
A is back to Aeolian, Ab is the same as G#


*** depends on the relative key you are playing. so if you are playing in the key of C, then B would be the correct term. if you are playing in the key of A, then A# would be the correct therm.

now as far as playing them goes, that depends on certain notes or "modes" to stay within that flow down the neck horizontally as if the guitar was in your lap. again, its all a pattern of shapes as george lynch calls it - however he jumps and skips all over them you can tell he does not stay in the box of rules 100%. paul gilbert is very mathmatical about obeying the rules and watching a few of his tutorial videos you can learn a few things from him.

the other option for you to learn this is to sit down with a book and disect the neck the hard way.

an old vai trick is to get a looper - play a chord like Asus5 - loop it - then solo over it figuring out what sounds right.

edit: cut out all of the BS

 

[Gorehog]

check out dave weiner's riff of the week page.

www.riffoftheweek.com

search modes. great help in learning modes.

once i learned the modes by pattern,i had to remember them ny name.here is what i did...

I =======================IONIAN
Don't====================DORIAN
Play=====================PHRYGIAN
Like======================LYDIAN
Michael===================MIXOLYDIAN
Angelo===================AOLEAN
Lately====================LOCRIAN

it was right when i listened to nuthing but shred for about 3 months.

 

[stephen sawall]

Modes are a musical theory devise used to confuse people and / or the names given to using different notes in a scale as a tonal center. It does not matter what mixture of half, whole step, minor and major thirds, etc make up the scale. The most common being the diatonic scale. All the different modes have there own personality's. Many musicians use one mode a lot and are associated with that sound.

 

[glpg80]

modes are not there to confuse people.

its a tool in a toolbox.

he wanted to know modes. so i explained it to the best of my ability

 

[stephen sawall]

modes are not there to confuse people.

But it does have that effect on a lot of people ...

My reply was to the OP .... not your post on this thread.

 

[glpg80]

modes are not there to confuse people.

But it does have that effect on a lot of people ...

My reply was to the OP .... not your post on this thread.

understood.

i did not bother with any theory for a long time. i believe starting out its better not to. more fun that way. but eventually it becomes a tool and not a hinderance - i only learned geek music talk after having found some of the patterns by trial and error over many years.

 

[degenaro]

Natural minor is Aeolian not Ionian Ionian is the good ole major scale.

Here's the deal the purpose of notes is to relate a set of notes against a set of changes. Now there are folks that think of those in sub groups (modes) and those that think of them as key center.
Lets say you chug away on an A bass note...or have the bass player do it, and then alternate playing C and D major triads on top i.e. 5th fret on the d, g, b string and then 7th fret on those strings. If you think in modes that would make it A Dorian, the notes you play in that rhythm are...
A for the bass note, c,e,g...for the C triad, d,f#,a for the D triad...gives you from a...
a, c, d, e, f#, g...so you got A Dorian with the 9 (B) missing, which is also G major if you think of it as key center.
Now when you say have a progression that goes Am-D7-G, and you spent too much time with modes you gonna play A Dorian, D Mixolydian, G Ionian...when you can just think...ii-V-I in G I can play G major across it...obviously you're not gonna ride the C note over the G major but that's merely a matter of choice and ear.

What notes are NOT is fretboard patterns!

 

[glpg80]

i appologize for explaining it in patterns - sub groups in comparison to a root note and the changes you make compared to that root note are the differences in modes and what sounds musical depends on your choice of notes or groups.

i was simply explaining it from a noob standpoint. thanks for the further clarification Ed

 

[degenaro]

i appologize for explaining it in patterns - sub groups in comparison to a root note and the changes you make compared to that root note are the differences in modes and what sounds musical depends on your choice of notes or groups.

i was simply explaining it from a noob standpoint. thanks for the further clarification Ed

Wasn't referring to your post with the patterns but rather to guys who think that running from B on the 7th fret e string across the board makes anything locrian by using b,c,d,e,f,g,a...unless there is a defining harmony present the way most folks would use it would be far from defining.
The thing I was referring to your post was your reference to natural minor being ionian instead of aeolian.

 

[dfrattaroli]

I =======================IONIAN
Don't====================DORIAN
Play=====================PHRYGIAN
Like======================LYDIAN
Michael===================MIXOLYDIAN
Angelo===================AOLEAN
Lately====================LOCRIAN

That's a good one! I couldn't come up with anything intelligent so I just go with. It's stupid but it's how I remembered it.

I =======================IONIAN
Don't====================DORIAN
Play=====================PHRYGIAN
Like======================LYDIAN
My======================MIXOLYDIAN
Ass=====================AOLEAN
Lick====================LOCRIAN

 

[Gainzilla]

I =======================IONIAN
Don't====================DORIAN
Play=====================PHRYGIAN
Like======================LYDIAN
Michael===================MIXOLYDIAN
Angelo===================AOLEAN
Lately====================LOCRIAN

That's a good one! I couldn't come up with anything intelligent so I just go with. It's stupid but it's how I remembered it.

I =======================IONIAN
Don't====================DORIAN
Play=====================PHRYGIAN
Like======================LYDIAN
My======================MIXOLYDIAN
Ass=====================AOLEAN
Lick====================LOCRIAN

LOL!!! this was mine Dave;


I =======================IONIAN
Don't====================DORIAN
Punch=====================PHRYGIAN
Like======================LYDIAN
Mohammed======================MIXOLYDIAN
Ah=====================AOLEAN
Li====================LOCRIAN

Kage

 

[Viesczy]

Modes used to confuse the bejesus outta me, but then the scales fell from my eyes and I was SAVED brother! Can I get an amen?

Basically modes are playing other keys within the key you're playing.

Example, say you're going all Phrygian, which means you have 4 flats off of the scale that you're using. If that is the key of C you're looking @ Db, Eb, Ab & Bb right? That's the Ab scale.

You're going all Lydian, in C that means you're really only playing the G scale (F#).

Aeolian is just the Eb scale in C natural, natural scale of course.

Mixo is just the F scale in C natural, natural scale of course.

When I stopped over thinking the modes, they made sense.

Derek

Edit for clarification

 

[glpg80]

Example, say you're going all Phrygian, which means you have 4 flats off of the scale that you're using. If that is the key of C you're looking @ Db, Eb, Ab & Bb right? That's the Ab scale.

for those that are still confused read this sentence very carefully - it explains it very clearly. could not say it any better myself

what always confuses me is lets say you are playing aeolean in the key of E and then switch to a wierd mode in the same key - the phrasing and note construction changes drastically and can be hard to switch between the two on a fretboard (for me anyway) and still make it musical.

 

[Heritage Softail]

Example, say you're going all Phrygian, which means you have 4 flats off of the scale that you're using. If that is the key of C you're looking @ Db, Eb, Ab & Bb right? That's the Ab scale.

for those that are still confused read this sentence very carefully - it explains it very clearly. could not say it any better myself

what always confuses me is lets say you are playing aeolean in the key of E and then switch to a wierd mode in the same key - the phrasing and note construction changes drastically and can be hard to switch between the two on a fretboard (for me anyway) and still make it musical.

sweet info...

This seems to be in line but said slightly differently than what my guitar teacher is saying. .

I am learning the F major scale now. It is the G (insert mode) when playing the same exact pattern, just starting on the G note, same modal change for same identical pattern, just starting on the A note.

 

[dgaemc2]

Folks....not to be a fly in the ointment, but I feel some further clarification is needed.

Before trying to wrap your arms around the theory of modes...it is very helpful to understand some important basics. Most importantly the Major key signature and Major scale in each key. The Major scale in the corresponding Major key that you are playing is ALWAYS the Ionian Mode.....so it is the first mode to understand and actually the easiest for most to get their arms around.

The pattern for all Major scales is WWHWWWH (W=Whole Steps, H=Half Steps).

It is also important to know the diatonic pattern associated with Major keys which is Major, minor, minor, Major, minor, diminshed and back to Major...often noted as I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, vii diminished.

Let's take the key of C Major as an example because it contains no sharps or flats. The primary chords that work while playing in the key of C Major are C, dm, em F, G, am, b diminshed (i.e. I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, vii dim).

The 7 modes while playing in the KEY of C Major (any combination of the chords mentioned above will work fine as a rhythm track) are:

C Ionian - C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C (C Major Scale.....ie WWHWWWH)
D Dorian - D, E, F, G, A, B, C, D (Flat the 3rd and 7th notes of the D Major Scale)
E Phrygian - E, F, G, A, B, C, D, E (Flat the 2nd, 3rd, 6th & 7th notes of the E Major Scale)
F Lydian - F, G, A, B, C, D, E, F (Sharp the 4th note of the F Major Scale)
G Mixolydian - G, A, B, C, D, E, F, G (Flat the 7th note of the G Major Scale)
A Aolean - A, B, C, D, E, F, G, A (Flat the 3rd, 6th and 7th note of the A Major Scale...the Aolean mode is ALWAYs the relative minor scale of the key that you are playing in....in my example the key is C and the relative minor in the key of C is Am).
B Locrian - B, C, D, E, F, G, A, B (Flat the 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th & 7th notes of the B Major Scale).

ALL modes contain the exact same notes of the Major Scale of the KEY that you are playing in...the only difference is which tonic note you start and stop with as illustrated above. Have somebody play a basic I, vi, IV, V rhythm pattern i.e. (C, am, F, G) while you start and stop the C Major scale as illustrated above to get a "flavor" of how the different modes sound.

It is important to note that the Major Key that you are playing in is NOT the same as the mode you are playing in Except for the Ionian Mode.

One more quick example: Let's say we are playing a song in G Major......following the I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, vii dim formula would indicate that the primary chords that work in the key of G Major are:
G, am, bm, C, D, em, f# dim.....once again have someone repeatedly play a chord progression in G Major.....This time let's go with I, IV, V or G, C, D as an example.

The Modes associated with the Key of G Major are as follows: G Major contains 1 sharp (F#)
G Ionian - G, A, B, C, D, E, F#, G (i.e. same as the G Major scale...WWHWWWH)
A Dorian - A, B, C, D, E, F#, G, A (Flat the 3rd and 7th of the A Major Scale)
B Phrygian - B, C, D, E, F#, G, A, B (Flat the 2nd, 3rd, 6th & 7th of the B Major Scale)
C Lydian - C, D, E, F#, G, A, B, C (Sharp the 4th of the C Major Scale)
D Mixolydian - D, E, F#, G, A, B, C, D (Flat the 7th of the D Major Scale)
E Aolean - E, F#, G, A, B, C, D, E (Flat the 3rd, 6th and 7th of the E Major Scale..which corresponds to the relative minor scale. Em is the relative minor while in the key of G Major).
F# Locrian - F#, G, A, B, C, D, E, F# (Flat the 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th & 7th of the F# Major Scale).

I hope this isn't too much information, but hopefully it clears things up some.

Viesczy's response was kind of right, but it took me a few minutes to understand that all of his examples were based on C being the mode scale in each case....not the KEY. His examples were playing in the C Phrygian mode (same notes as Ab Major Scale), C Lydian (same notes G Major Scale), C Aolean (Same notes as Eb Major Scale) and C Mixolydian (Same notes as F Major Scale)

He also mentioned that "modes are like playing different keys within the key that you are playing in" which is actually confusing and incorrect. A better description would be "Modes are like playing different scales within the Key that you are playing in". The Ionian Mode is always the Major Scale of the Key you are playing in.....and Aolean Mode is always the relative minor scale of the key you are playing in.

I am not nitpicking Viesczy.....it is just very important to know that each mode is a different scale from the key you are playing in and the backing tracks that you are soloing over must be chord progressions that fit into the KEY you are playing in.

Hopefully, this helps people to understand that basic theory is needed before one can truly get their minds around "modes". However, it also isn't necessary to fully understand. Just continue to play what sounds good to you. Chances are you are already playing several modes....and just didn't know it and that is perfectly fine as well.

Hope this helps.

 

[Joeytpg]

Folks....not to be a fly in the ointment, but I feel some further clarification is needed.

Before trying to wrap your arms around the theory of modes...it is very helpful to understand some important basics. Most importantly the Major key signature and Major scale in each key. The Major scale in the corresponding Major key that you are playing is ALWAYS the Ionian Mode.....so it is the first mode to understand and actually the easiest for most to get their arms around.

The pattern for all Major scales is WWHWWWH (W=Whole Steps, H=Half Steps).

It is also important to know the diatonic pattern associated with Major keys which is Major, minor, minor, Major, minor, diminshed and back to Major...often noted as I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, vii diminished.

Let's take the key of C Major as an example because it contains no sharps or flats. The primary chords that work while playing in the key of C Major are C, dm, em F, G, am, b diminshed (i.e. I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, vii dim).

The 7 modes while playing in the KEY of C Major (any combination of the chords mentioned above will work fine as a rhythm track) are:

C Ionian - C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C (C Major Scale.....ie WWHWWWH)
D Dorian - D, E, F, G, A, B, C, D (Flat the 3rd and 7th notes of the D Major Scale)
E Phrygian - E, F, G, A, B, C, D, E (Flat the 2nd, 3rd, 6th & 7th notes of the E Major Scale)
F Lydian - F, G, A, B, C, D, E, F (Sharp the 4th note of the F Major Scale)
G Mixolydian - G, A, B, C, D, E, F, G (Flat the 7th note of the G Major Scale)
A Aolean - A, B, C, D, E, F, G, A (Flat the 3rd, 6th and 7th note of the A Major Scale...the Aolean mode is ALWAYs the relative minor scale of the key that you are playing in....in my example the key is C and the relative minor in the key of C is Am).
B Locrian - B, C, D, E, F, G, A, B (Flat the 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th & 7th notes of the B Major Scale).

ALL modes contain the exact same notes of the Major Scale of the KEY that you are playing in...the only difference is which tonic note you start and stop with as illustrated above. Have somebody play a basic I, vi, IV, V rhythm pattern i.e. (C, am, F, G) while you start and stop the C Major scale as illustrated above to get a "flavor" of how the different modes sound.

It is important to note that the Major Key that you are playing in is NOT the same as the mode you are playing in Except for the Ionian Mode.

One more quick example: Let's say we are playing a song in G Major......following the I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, vii dim formula would indicate that the primary chords that work in the key of G Major are:
G, am, bm, C, D, em, f# dim.....once again have someone repeatedly play a chord progression in G Major.....This time let's go with I, IV, V or G, C, D as an example.

The Modes associated with the Key of G Major are as follows: G Major contains 1 sharp (F#)
G Ionian - G, A, B, C, D, E, F#, G (i.e. same as the G Major scale...WWHWWWH)
A Dorian - A, B, C, D, E, F#, G, A (Flat the 3rd and 7th of the A Major Scale)
B Phrygian - B, C, D, E, F#, G, A, B (Flat the 2nd, 3rd, 6th & 7th of the B Major Scale)
C Lydian - C, D, E, F#, G, A, B, C (Sharp the 4th of the C Major Scale)
D Mixolydian - D, E, F#, G, A, B, C, D (Flat the 7th of the D Major Scale)
E Aolean - E, F#, G, A, B, C, D, E (Flat the 3rd, 6th and 7th of the E Major Scale..which corresponds to the relative minor scale. Em is the relative minor while in the key of G Major).
F# Locrian - F#, G, A, B, C, D, E, F# (Flat the 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th & 7th of the F# Major Scale).

I hope this isn't too much information, but hopefully it clears things up some.

Viesczy's response was kind of right, but it took me a few minutes to understand that all of his examples were based on C being the mode scale in each case....not the KEY. His examples were playing in the C Phrygian mode (same notes as Ab Major Scale), C Lydian (same notes G Major Scale), C Aolean (Same notes as Eb Major Scale) and C Mixolydian (Same notes as F Major Scale)

He also mentioned that "modes are like playing different keys within the key that you are playing in" which is actually confusing and incorrect. A better description would be "Modes are like playing different scales within the Key that you are playing in". The Ionian Mode is always the Major Scale of the Key you are playing in.....and Aolean Mode is always the relative minor scale of the key you are playing in.

I am not nitpicking Viesczy.....it is just very important to know that each mode is a different scale from the key you are playing in and the backing tracks that you are soloing over must be chord progressions that fit into the KEY you are playing in.

Hopefully, this helps people to understand that basic theory is needed before one can truly get their minds around "modes". However, it also isn't necessary to fully understand. Just continue to play what sounds good to you. Chances are you are already playing several modes....and just didn't know it and that is perfectly fine as well.

Hope this helps.

wow dude, that was great! I understood that perfectly. I just need to "memorize it" and automatize it into my thinking

 

[glpg80]

Folks....not to be a fly in the ointment, but I feel some further clarification is needed.

Before trying to wrap your arms around the theory of modes...it is very helpful to understand some important basics. Most importantly the Major key signature and Major scale in each key. The Major scale in the corresponding Major key that you are playing is ALWAYS the Ionian Mode.....so it is the first mode to understand and actually the easiest for most to get their arms around.

The pattern for all Major scales is WWHWWWH (W=Whole Steps, H=Half Steps).

It is also important to know the diatonic pattern associated with Major keys which is Major, minor, minor, Major, minor, diminshed and back to Major...often noted as I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, vii diminished.

Let's take the key of C Major as an example because it contains no sharps or flats. The primary chords that work while playing in the key of C Major are C, dm, em F, G, am, b diminshed (i.e. I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, vii dim).

The 7 modes while playing in the KEY of C Major (any combination of the chords mentioned above will work fine as a rhythm track) are:

C Ionian - C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C (C Major Scale.....ie WWHWWWH)
D Dorian - D, E, F, G, A, B, C, D (Flat the 3rd and 7th notes of the D Major Scale)
E Phrygian - E, F, G, A, B, C, D, E (Flat the 2nd, 3rd, 6th & 7th notes of the E Major Scale)
F Lydian - F, G, A, B, C, D, E, F (Sharp the 4th note of the F Major Scale)
G Mixolydian - G, A, B, C, D, E, F, G (Flat the 7th note of the G Major Scale)
A Aolean - A, B, C, D, E, F, G, A (Flat the 3rd, 6th and 7th note of the A Major Scale...the Aolean mode is ALWAYs the relative minor scale of the key that you are playing in....in my example the key is C and the relative minor in the key of C is Am).
B Locrian - B, C, D, E, F, G, A, B (Flat the 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th & 7th notes of the B Major Scale).

ALL modes contain the exact same notes of the Major Scale of the KEY that you are playing in...the only difference is which tonic note you start and stop with as illustrated above. Have somebody play a basic I, vi, IV, V rhythm pattern i.e. (C, am, F, G) while you start and stop the C Major scale as illustrated above to get a "flavor" of how the different modes sound.

It is important to note that the Major Key that you are playing in is NOT the same as the mode you are playing in Except for the Ionian Mode.

One more quick example: Let's say we are playing a song in G Major......following the I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, vii dim formula would indicate that the primary chords that work in the key of G Major are:
G, am, bm, C, D, em, f# dim.....once again have someone repeatedly play a chord progression in G Major.....This time let's go with I, IV, V or G, C, D as an example.

The Modes associated with the Key of G Major are as follows: G Major contains 1 sharp (F#)
G Ionian - G, A, B, C, D, E, F#, G (i.e. same as the G Major scale...WWHWWWH)
A Dorian - A, B, C, D, E, F#, G, A (Flat the 3rd and 7th of the A Major Scale)
B Phrygian - B, C, D, E, F#, G, A, B (Flat the 2nd, 3rd, 6th & 7th of the B Major Scale)
C Lydian - C, D, E, F#, G, A, B, C (Sharp the 4th of the C Major Scale)
D Mixolydian - D, E, F#, G, A, B, C, D (Flat the 7th of the D Major Scale)
E Aolean - E, F#, G, A, B, C, D, E (Flat the 3rd, 6th and 7th of the E Major Scale..which corresponds to the relative minor scale. Em is the relative minor while in the key of G Major).
F# Locrian - F#, G, A, B, C, D, E, F# (Flat the 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th & 7th of the F# Major Scale).

I hope this isn't too much information, but hopefully it clears things up some.

Viesczy's response was kind of right, but it took me a few minutes to understand that all of his examples were based on C being the mode scale in each case....not the KEY. His examples were playing in the C Phrygian mode (same notes as Ab Major Scale), C Lydian (same notes G Major Scale), C Aolean (Same notes as Eb Major Scale) and C Mixolydian (Same notes as F Major Scale)

He also mentioned that "modes are like playing different keys within the key that you are playing in" which is actually confusing and incorrect. A better description would be "Modes are like playing different scales within the Key that you are playing in". The Ionian Mode is always the Major Scale of the Key you are playing in.....and Aolean Mode is always the relative minor scale of the key you are playing in.

I am not nitpicking Viesczy.....it is just very important to know that each mode is a different scale from the key you are playing in and the backing tracks that you are soloing over must be chord progressions that fit into the KEY you are playing in.

Hopefully, this helps people to understand that basic theory is needed before one can truly get their minds around "modes". However, it also isn't necessary to fully understand. Just continue to play what sounds good to you. Chances are you are already playing several modes....and just didn't know it and that is perfectly fine as well.

Hope this helps.

glad you took the time to post this, thanks alot man

 

[dgaemc2]

Glad to help guys. Thanks for the appreciation.

On a side note......just because I understand the theory doesn't make me a great master of the modes while playing guitar. The theory is definitely a help to know, but I haven't "learned" the patterns of all modes in all positions.....not even close. That is what books are for, but honestly, I prefer to just try to learn solos by ear. I am definitely not a tab reader! Can I do it.....yes, but I prefer to try to figure the solos out by ear first!

Honestly, I am one that has probably soloed in all modes several times in my life (well maybe not Locrian which is usually more suitable for jazz), but I don't "think" about what mode or musical theory when I play. Now if I were to get off my duff and learn the patterns of each mode.....I am sure that I would become a much better player.

Best of luck.