Explain modes to me. :)

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This starting on a diff root note of the F major scale and getting a feel for the mode is exactly what I am doing in lessons right now. F maj scale, 3 note per string patterns, about 10 jam tracks, doing it with a metronome ad nauseum. As much as it is easy to hate, just sitting and noodling with Music Choice on TV, it has value. I could never do many two string skips in leads and know it would sound right until after getting the entire major scale over the neck memorized. Now to learn the note names to go with the patterns.

Excellent thread. The work in learning pays off in the fun of playing. Sounds so nerdy but is so true.
 
A very good way to learn modes (mainly dorian and mixolydian) is learning and listening to Miles Davis "Kind of Blue"

Remember:

m7 chord relates to Dorian mode
dom7 chord relates to Mixolydian mode

just learns these two modes up and down the neck in one key and you'll have a good starting point. jam along with kind of blue a lot. jane's addiction and RHCP and floyd "breathe" are good examples of bands/songs that use these modes specifically.
 
Lots of great advice so far.. To make it simple, the modes are all Diatonic scales..

"Dia" meaning 7...so 7 notes per scale(mode) Just like Penta is 5( Pentatonic is 5 note scale)

Modes are just flavors based off the major scale and therefore off the chords of a major scale.

They all branch from the Major scale(Ionian) and then progess up thru the scales as explained in earlier posts.

If you want to stay in the modern rock/blues genre.. The minor modes are used frequently and combined as passing tones with the minor pentatonic and blues scale.. Dorian, Phrygian, Aeolian.. You will also find some use of the Ionian and Mixolydian(malsteen occassionally) in rock music. The applications are endless and it all comes down to your taste, ear, and what you're trying to achieve. I could spend days playing a combination of aeolian/melodic minor/harmonic minor/minor penta/blues penta and have endless licks and phrases..that all work together for the most part. an important thing to remember is that when soloing, finding a nice tonal passing note that suits the chord change and keeps the lick 'together'. Good luck and play from your heart and ears!!
 
dgaemc2":2lo9beg8 said:
Folks....not to be a fly in the ointment, but I feel some further clarification is needed.

Before trying to wrap your arms around the theory of modes...it is very helpful to understand some important basics. Most importantly the Major key signature and Major scale in each key. The Major scale in the corresponding Major key that you are playing is ALWAYS the Ionian Mode.....so it is the first mode to understand and actually the easiest for most to get their arms around.

The pattern for all Major scales is WWHWWWH (W=Whole Steps, H=Half Steps).

It is also important to know the diatonic pattern associated with Major keys which is Major, minor, minor, Major, minor, diminshed and back to Major...often noted as I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, vii diminished.

Let's take the key of C Major as an example because it contains no sharps or flats. The primary chords that work while playing in the key of C Major are C, dm, em F, G, am, b diminshed (i.e. I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, vii dim).

The 7 modes while playing in the KEY of C Major (any combination of the chords mentioned above will work fine as a rhythm track) are:

C Ionian - C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C (C Major Scale.....ie WWHWWWH)
D Dorian - D, E, F, G, A, B, C, D (Flat the 3rd and 7th notes of the D Major Scale)
E Phrygian - E, F, G, A, B, C, D, E (Flat the 2nd, 3rd, 6th & 7th notes of the E Major Scale)
F Lydian - F, G, A, B, C, D, E, F (Sharp the 4th note of the F Major Scale)
G Mixolydian - G, A, B, C, D, E, F, G (Flat the 7th note of the G Major Scale)
A Aolean - A, B, C, D, E, F, G, A (Flat the 3rd, 6th and 7th note of the A Major Scale...the Aolean mode is ALWAYs the relative minor scale of the key that you are playing in....in my example the key is C and the relative minor in the key of C is Am).
B Locrian - B, C, D, E, F, G, A, B (Flat the 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th & 7th notes of the B Major Scale).

ALL modes contain the exact same notes of the Major Scale of the KEY that you are playing in...the only difference is which tonic note you start and stop with as illustrated above. Have somebody play a basic I, vi, IV, V rhythm pattern i.e. (C, am, F, G) while you start and stop the C Major scale as illustrated above to get a "flavor" of how the different modes sound.

It is important to note that the Major Key that you are playing in is NOT the same as the mode you are playing in Except for the Ionian Mode.

One more quick example: Let's say we are playing a song in G Major......following the I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, vii dim formula would indicate that the primary chords that work in the key of G Major are:
G, am, bm, C, D, em, f# dim.....once again have someone repeatedly play a chord progression in G Major.....This time let's go with I, IV, V or G, C, D as an example.

The Modes associated with the Key of G Major are as follows: G Major contains 1 sharp (F#)
G Ionian - G, A, B, C, D, E, F#, G (i.e. same as the G Major scale...WWHWWWH)
A Dorian - A, B, C, D, E, F#, G, A (Flat the 3rd and 7th of the A Major Scale)
B Phrygian - B, C, D, E, F#, G, A, B (Flat the 2nd, 3rd, 6th & 7th of the B Major Scale)
C Lydian - C, D, E, F#, G, A, B, C (Sharp the 4th of the C Major Scale)
D Mixolydian - D, E, F#, G, A, B, C, D (Flat the 7th of the D Major Scale)
E Aolean - E, F#, G, A, B, C, D, E (Flat the 3rd, 6th and 7th of the E Major Scale..which corresponds to the relative minor scale. Em is the relative minor while in the key of G Major).
F# Locrian - F#, G, A, B, C, D, E, F# (Flat the 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th & 7th of the F# Major Scale).

I hope this isn't too much information, but hopefully it clears things up some.

Viesczy's response was kind of right, but it took me a few minutes to understand that all of his examples were based on C being the mode scale in each case....not the KEY. His examples were playing in the C Phrygian mode (same notes as Ab Major Scale), C Lydian (same notes G Major Scale), C Aolean (Same notes as Eb Major Scale) and C Mixolydian (Same notes as F Major Scale)

He also mentioned that "modes are like playing different keys within the key that you are playing in" which is actually confusing and incorrect. A better description would be "Modes are like playing different scales within the Key that you are playing in". The Ionian Mode is always the Major Scale of the Key you are playing in.....and Aolean Mode is always the relative minor scale of the key you are playing in.

I am not nitpicking Viesczy.....it is just very important to know that each mode is a different scale from the key you are playing in and the backing tracks that you are soloing over must be chord progressions that fit into the KEY you are playing in.

Hopefully, this helps people to understand that basic theory is needed before one can truly get their minds around "modes". However, it also isn't necessary to fully understand. Just continue to play what sounds good to you. Chances are you are already playing several modes....and just didn't know it and that is perfectly fine as well. :)

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Thank you for this info. Here is my question: If I am playing in C major, what are the modes I might use to color my solo? C Dorian, C Phrygian, C Lydian, C etc. OR C Dorian, D Phrygian, E Lydian, C etc?

It seems the first one yet it is confusing when written.

thanks in advance,
 
There are no wrong notes ... just taste. What scales/modes you use very much depends on the progression it is being played over and your taste.

In other words try them and your ears will tell you...
 
stephen sawall":2d0km4u3 said:
There are no wrong notes ... just taste. What scales/modes you use very much depends on the progression it is being played over and your taste.

In other words try them and your ears will tell you...
Click to expand...

Stephen,

Thanks for the answer, I have been playing what sounds right for 30yrs. I was hoping for an understanding like the major/minor relationships. I don't memorized minor scales, I memorized relationships. I know to play a C major scale from A to A when playing in A minor. That is the kind of understanding I need. Right now, I'll look at the chords of a song, see what seems prominent and play scales based off of that. For example, in a E blues progression I would try some quick runs in A and E to see what sounds good and then drift back to the one that sounds good. I'd just like to have a general understanding, C Dorian, C Phrygian, C Lydian, C etc. OR C Dorian, D Phrygian, E Lydian, C etc? Logiclly seems like it should be c, d, e etc....

thanks
 
If the chord or progression can be spelled in a mode it will work with that chord or progression in most cases ....

There is more than one way to look at it .... but in general I tend to look at it from the root of the song ...."C Dorian, C Phrygian, C Lydian, C etc."
 
Thank you for this info. Here is my question: If I am playing in C major, what are the modes I might use to color my solo? C Dorian, C Phrygian, C Lydian, C etc. OR C Dorian, D Phrygian, E Lydian, C etc?

It seems the first one yet it is confusing when written.

thanks in advance,
Click to expand...

The term "color", imho, refers to notes that are outside the implied scale/mode foundation that you initially set up for your listeners. If you set up (or it is set for you due to the chord progression you're soloing over) a C Major foundation and then play C Dorian Minor, or any of the others in your 1st list, you will sometimes be playing "wrong" notes, therefore "coloring" your solo - which is not necessarily a bad thing. Again, these are just the terms I use to describe what I hear.

In the Key of C Major, if you play C Ionian (c major), D Dorian, E Phrygian, F Lydian, etc., these all only contain the notes C D E F G A B C. There would be no "coloring". Your ear WANTS to hear those notes (in Western music, which is what I assume we're discussing).

For example: In C Major, you play a lick that goes G E F G C. Fantastic right?
So, instead play: G Eb E G C

That Eb technically is "wrong". It is a minor 3rd to the C. Any Minor scale/mode in (not "of") the Key of C will contain an Eb.
To me, that is coloring.

Good Luck!
 
Remember, modes aren't necessarily linked to certain notes. You can play any mode in any key. C Ionian is IMO the best way to learn because the key of C has no sharps or flats. Major scale=Ionian mode, so just start with C Ionian and then start the remaining modes from each note in the major scale following C and you have your modes. (C Ionian=D Dorian=E phrygian, etc...) All of the modes in this example have the exact same notes (CDEFGABC) with no flats/sharps, they just resolve or are "rooted" on different notes. So, D Dorian has all the same notes as C Ionian/major scale, but resolves on D.

In this case, A is Aeolian and A is the relative Minor to C.

But you could start in A Ionian, and then follow that process for example.
 
Okay time for some updated thoughts on this...
For my personal usage I still prefer to think of of progressions having a key venter and relating to the parent scale.
example would be if the progression is Am to D or Am7 to D7 I'd think G major instead of A dorian to D mixolydian. Having spent a lot of time with Indian musicians I for the first time actually found a good usage for modes.
In Indian Classic music whether Carnatic or Hindustani there is no harmony. At least not the way we look at it. For us harmony is the progression of vertical stacked voices (chords). Over there the harmony is implied my the Raag (Scale) as in horizontal.
How does it relate to us...well simple...
So you have a bunch of Indian Raags that are pretty much their version of our modes.
So say you have an A drone (sustained single note)...
What do we do play? Stuff we know...A pentatonic (minor and or major) Blues scale, dorian, mixolydian, major.
So what happens if we put the modes to use? Instead of thinking of them as exclusive to a progression (which is absent here...
You guys tell me...
 
Glassjaw if you are going to have a link like that in your signature at least have a warning that it is not work or family friendly please .... :)
 
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