Favorite Rectifier recorded tones?

[RevDrucifer]

I remember reading Cantrell was mixing the Fish, Dual Rec and the 5150’s Ed gave him on Dirt. If Ronnie Champagne was working that album then surely the Snorkler is on there as well. Cantrell also said in an interview that time he was often triple tracking rhythms, a really distorted amp on one side, a less distorted amp on the other and a barely distorted amp down the middle.

That said, I think sometimes we as guitar players/gear nerds get too hung up on quotes we read in mags. So often someone is just mentioning the shit they remember off the top of their head and can’t remember the exact setup used for every part, or they forget that one verse where they threw a Rat in front of a Pignose for something weird and then a forum full of guitarists are arguing over which of the amps it was based off what the guitarist listed off from the top of their head.

People rarely know this somg , check out chorus riff .

That’s a fucking sick soundtrack, 3 of my favorite songs from 2 of my favorite bands of all time-

“What The Hell Have I”, “A Little Bitter” and “The Real World”

 

[Techdeth]

I remember reading Cantrell was mixing the Fish, Dual Rec and the 5150’s Ed gave him on Dirt. If Ronnie Champagne was working that album then surely the Snorkler is on there as well. Cantrell also said in an interview that time he was often triple tracking rhythms, a really distorted amp on one side, a less distorted amp on the other and a barely distorted amp down the middle.

That said, I think sometimes we as guitar players/gear nerds get too hung up on quotes we read in mags. So often someone is just mentioning the shit they remember off the top of their head and can’t remember the exact setup used for every part, or they forget that one verse where they threw a Rat in front of a Pignose for something weird and then a forum full of guitarists are arguing over which of the amps it was based off what the guitarist listed off from the top of their head.



That’s a fucking sick soundtrack, 3 of my favorite songs from 2 of my favorite bands of all time-

“What The Hell Have I”, “A Little Bitter” and “The Real World”

Yes both are so good . The remixes took the guitar chunk away , I don’t like those

 

[RevDrucifer]

Petrucci’s tones on Falling Into Infinity and the tour after were pretty sick as well. Kind of a drier take on a Recto sound than the usual. Those were all Racktifier live but that was the album he had *every* Mesa amp they ever made brought into the studio. There’s a pic of it somewhere, they’re all lined up in an iso booth off the main room, but I haven’t been able to find it in years.

I know the Awake album was blending the Dual Rec and a Mark IV, which is still my favorite Petrucci tones of all time.

And I don’t expect anyone here to dig ‘em as much, but Korn’s Follow The Leader had some sick Recto tones as well. That was the first time I heard guitars tuned that low that still had clarity, which is exactly why I hated their first two albums. I couldn’t make out what the fuck they were playing until Follow The Leader.

 

[anomaly]

100 percent completely false, not true in the least. The Marshall celestion vintage is the “original” v30 design, which is nothing like what the v30 is today.

You heard about the work that The Other John Brown and that guy Nolly have done? They found nothing in the frequency graphs that indicate their is anything different about the Marshall Vintage compared to the Celestion Vintage 30. It's just another plain old vintage 30 dude, except compared to the Mesa v30 (which is also the the same, but 8 ohms) it's 16 ohms, and theirs a bit of a mids reduction in 16 ohm speakers. Theres also no difference between english and chinese made vintage 30's. They're Just made in different places on the same equipment.

There is nothing distinct about the Marshall Vintage that seperates it from an ordinary Vintage 30.

 

[anomaly]

I don’t think you’re right. The Marshalls are different. Please link to a source.

https://www.rig-talk.com/forum/thre...-line-between-enthusiasm-and-insanity.267076/

 

[dave74]

The most brutal Recto tone EVAR…

I need to break this back out for my car rides to work. I have nothing but hard copies for music,,,no digital/downloaded stuff, so sometimes I almost "forget" about certain bands or albums. These guys have a few that I really love.

 

[Snave]

I remember reading Cantrell was mixing the Fish, Dual Rec and the 5150’s Ed gave him on Dirt. If Ronnie Champagne was working that album then surely the Snorkler is on there as well. Cantrell also said in an interview that time he was often triple tracking rhythms, a really distorted amp on one side, a less distorted amp on the other and a barely distorted amp down the middle.

That said, I think sometimes we as guitar players/gear nerds get too hung up on quotes we read in mags. So often someone is just mentioning the shit they remember off the top of their head and can’t remember the exact setup used for every part, or they forget that one verse where they threw a Rat in front of a Pignose for something weird and then a forum full of guitarists are arguing over which of the amps it was based off what the guitarist listed off from the top of their head.



That’s a fucking sick soundtrack, 3 of my favorite songs from 2 of my favorite bands of all time-

“What The Hell Have I”, “A Little Bitter” and “The Real World”

I don't think Ronnie Champagne worked on Dirt. Dave Jerden has contradicted himself on what he used for both Facelift and Dirt. With regards to Dirt, he gave this very detailed rundown in the book "Alice in Chains: In the Studio" by Jake Brown:

From a technical vantage-point, the engineer described an equally-as-layered amp set-up where “on the actual rhythm guitars, | remember we used a Dual Rectifier with a Les Paul on both the left and right tracks. We also had a left and right track running for Jerry's GK guitar that he built in highschool, which ran into a Bogner Fish, which was a pre-amp- I think there were only 200 of them made. That ran into a Hafler power amp, and then into a Marshall Cabinet. I would have been running the Dual Rectifier into a Marshall Cabinet as well. On the Dual Rectifier, I had a 1968 Marshall Straight Cabinet with the original Greenbacks in it. Then the Marshall TV cabinet that was on the Bogner Fish pre-amp, that would have had Greenbacks as well as 30 watters in them. Finally, there was another left and right guitar which was a Les Paul that went into this Rocktron, which was one of the Tom Schulz-designed rackmount units. That fed a little Marshall 12-watt guitar amp, a little solid state amp with a 10-inch, 15-watt flush mount speaker in it.

When the production team transitioned from tracking Jerry Cantrell’s rhythm tracks to lead-guitar overdubs that Guitar World magazine would later “huge and foreboding, yet eerie and intimate ... sublimely dark and brutally honest,” Carlstrom shared that “when we got done tracking at One on One, we went back to Eldorado Studios to finish overdubs, where we used two different guitar amps we would use for solos. Like on ‘Godsmack,’ the guitar amp is a Matchless EC-30 editions, with a distortion pedal in front of that. The other amp we used for leads on Dirt was a 100-Watt 1971 Marshall that had been modified by Mike Morin. In fact, I still own all those amps, Jerry even tried to buy that one for me for an insane amount of money, and I turned him down.

This is from another interview:

I used the Ecstasy for the "mid" amp and the Rockman for the top however for the bottom ( And here is where the big sound came from) I used a Bogner Fish Pre Amp ( Modified by Bogner) with a VHT Amp and a Marshall cab with Vox Bulldog speakers for the Bottom. I use SM57s to mic. To split the amps I used a Lucas Deceiver . I did not mix the amps but left them separate to the end ( before mixing ) and Jerry "doubled" himself so there was 6 tracks of amps before mixing. The "trick" in mixing is to make crossover points with Hi pass Lo Pass filters. To this end I mixed on an SSL console that has these filters on every module. For the low amp I set the low pass at only 300hz. The mid amp was 300hz to 4k and the high amp 4k to 8k cuttoff. I cut everything "Flat " however I did EQ the amps in the mix using a mild EQ curve from AMP to Amp.Phase is the big problem in using muti amps.

 

[Philhouse]

I don't think Ronnie Champagne worked on Dirt. Dave Jerden has contradicted himself on what he used for both Facelift and Dirt. With regards to Dirt, he gave this very detailed rundown in the book "Alice in Chains: In the Studio" by Jake Brown:



This is from another interview:

Awesome info! I love Dirt but prefer Facelift tones for rawness. I love the tones on Black Gives Way to Blue especially.

Mmm, a Rocktron into a Marshall 12w... yum .
Bill Steer did similar with just the amp. It obviously works well for the those purposes, but I can't imagine it sounds good on it's own. I've never owned one though.

 

[Snave]

Awesome info! I love Dirt but prefer Facelift tones for rawness. I love the tones on Black Gives Way to Blue especially.

Mmm, a Rocktron into a Marshall 12w... yum .
Bill Steer did similar with just the amp. It obviously works well for the those purposes, but I can't imagine it sounds good on it's own. I've never owned one though.

That's a typo by the author actually. Jerden would have been referring to a Rockman amp, as used on Boston albums. The book is full of errors since the author clearly isn't familiar with guitar equipment.

Fun fact: Jerden used practically the exact same production and guitar tone on Anthrax's "Sound of White Noise." This lends credence to there not being any Recto on "Dirt."

I recorded the guitars on Sound of White Noise the same as I did the Alice in Chains 'Dirt' album. If you check the thread on recording guitars for Dirt I lay out the three amp set up.

One reason Anthrax hired me was because they wanted the same guitar sound on Dirt. One thing I did not mention in my post on Gearspace when I explained my three amp setup was that when all six rhythm tracks (basics and doubles) are recorded when mixing. I hard pan them hard left and hard right . Just to agin list the amps used; Low-Bogner Fish preamp/VHT amp/Marshall Cab with Vox bulldog speakers-mid amp/Bogner ecstasy/ hi amp/Rockman pocket amp direct - I split the guitar signal to all three amps through a Lucas Deceiver guitar amp splitter made by Terry Manning (ZZTop engineer). I miked the Low and mid amps with a Shure SM57 and the Rockman I took direct injection. As far as the lead guitars, we used my 1988 Marshall 100/50 watt convertible Super Lead amp (with 6L6 tubes not EL34) modified with an extra pre amp stage (and made 100/50 watt convertible) by Mike Morin. This amp (besides the Bogner Fish pre amp) are my favorite amps. By the way, Bogner custom built and modified the Fish and Ecstasy to sound as "brown" as possible. When recording I compressed all the guitars. We used Summit compressors. I record guitars flat with no EQ so as not to introduce phase problems.

 

[anomaly]

100 percent completely false, not true in the least. The Marshall celestion vintage is the “original” v30 design, which is nothing like what the v30 is today.

The V30 is still made the same way it always has, just with more consistency and quality control.

 

[Rex Rocker]

The V30 is still made the same way it always has, just with more consistency and quality control.

I think what I understood he concluded from that video is that 1. they are made more consistently nowadays and 2. they have varied during the years.

 

[dave74]

Definitely more consistent in modern times, but John's and Glen F's videos also showed that even the brand new (2020+) versions have some variation from one to another, just not nearly as much as in the early days.

 

[Philhouse]

That's a typo by the author actually. Jerden would have been referring to a Rockman amp, as used on Boston albums. The book is full of errors since the author clearly isn't familiar with guitar equipment.

Fun fact: Jerden used practically the exact same production and guitar tone on Anthrax's "Sound of White Noise." This lends credence to there not being any Recto on "Dirt."

Love 'Sound Of White Noise'. I think they took the foot off the throttle just right going from a thrash band to a simpler sound on that one.
Metallica did it too fast from AJFA to Black, and Megadeth with RIP to Countdown for many fans to hang around.

 

[anomaly]

Love 'Sound Of White Noise'. I think they took the foot off the throttle just right going from a thrash band to a simpler sound on that one.
Metallica did it too fast from AJFA to Black, and Megadeth with RIP to Countdown for many fans to hang around.

Well, the black album and countdown are those bands highest selling albums, so I think most of the fans and then some many more millions stuck around.

 

[VESmedic]

The V30 is still made the same way it always has, just with more consistency and quality control.

That may be true, but it’s literally not the same speaker at all compared to a v30. It’s a fact, not an opinion for sure. I mean if you listen to them mic’d up, they are absolutely nothing alike.

 

[anomaly]

That may be true, but it’s literally not the same speaker at all compared to a v30. It’s a fact, not an opinion for sure. I mean if you listen to them mic’d up, they are absolutely nothing alike.

If you search you'll find some that sound near identicle to a regular V30. That's the thing with speakers, is none of them sound exactly alike, they all have differences among the same type of speaker. My recto cab, all four speakers sound different, but they still have that undeniable V30 characteristic to them.

It's not a fact, Marshall Vintage speakers are V30's, there's nothing signature about their tone that seperates them from a regular V30. If there is, point it out to me on a graph, on more than a few speakers, i need to see a trend that makes them undeniably different. It's not there. They're just V30's. I think if you ask Nolly, he'll tell you the same thing.

 

[Rex Rocker]

I actually think you both are right if I'm understanding John Brown's experiment correctly.

Those Marshall Vintages from the OG 86-87 Jubilee cabs would indeed sound different than anything they make nowadays. At that time, I don't think the "Vintage 30" labeled Vintage 30's were even made, so nothing to compare to.

But current Marshall Vintages sound pretty similar if not the same as regular current V30's, considering the ohms are the same.

Most Marshall V30's nowadays are 16 ohm, though. And those OG cabs had 8 ohm speakers. So it's not surprising those OG Jubilee cabs sound nothing like today's 1960V's.

That's just going off from what I understood from the video, though. No first-hand experience. I've never had Marshall Vintages and regular production V30's from the same year to compare.

 

[VESmedic]

If you search you'll find some that sound near identicle to a regular V30. That's the thing with speakers, is none of them sound exactly alike, they all have differences among the same type of speaker. My recto cab, all four speakers sound different, but they still have that undeniable V30 characteristic to them.

It's not a fact, Marshall Vintage speakers are V30's, there's nothing signature about their tone that seperates them from a regular V30. If there is, point it out to me on a graph, on more than a few speakers, i need to see a trend that makes them undeniably different. It's not there. They're just V30's. I think if you ask Nolly, he'll tell you the same thing.

Nolly doesn’t really touch on this. The fact that they sound different than v30s doesn’t have to do with the inconsistencies in speakers, it had to do with the fact that they are LITERALLY different designs homie… I promise you, I am a huge nerd with this stuff as you know. The modern day v30 is not anything like the Marshall celestion vintage speaker at all… have you done a true comparison? By that I mean, a 16 ohm v30, and a 16 ohm Marshall celestion vintage… they don’t sound anything alike at all man, I mean really. Not at all.


Once again, the the Marshall celestion vintage is the “original” design of the v30 yes, but it’s nothing like the new ones, at ALL.


If they are the same, why can’t you buy Marshall celestion vintages? Think about it… seriously, you can’t buy them anywhere, unless it’s used. They don’t sell them…..

 

[Beyond Black]

Well, the black album and countdown are those bands highest selling albums, so I think most of the fans and then some many more millions stuck around.

No, many new fans that didn’t like them when they played real metal jumped on the bandwagon when they both jumped on the corporate dick. Most of the real metal fans jumped ship, and couldn’t care less how many albums they sold.

 

[Beyond Black]

I need to break this back out for my car rides to work. I have nothing but hard copies for music,,,no digital/downloaded stuff, so sometimes I almost "forget" about certain bands or albums. These guys have a few that I really love.

Eternal‘s a monster album. MC are definitely one of the GOATs of Death Metal.
It’s good to hang on to your hard copies. In many cases the reissues and remasters aren’t as good as the originals imo, and are sometimes the only option they give you.