FOUND Rev C recto or mkiic+

  • Thread starter Thread starter Yehuda
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hellzington said:
This is in opposition to, for example, a Blueface or BF Spec VH4. That is an amp worth paying extra for because the hype is real. It’s a different amp. The IIC+ and the III++ are 98% the same.
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Dude......

I respect your opinion and all, and you've had/have some great amps. But, either 1 of 2 things are going on with your III/C+.....your C+ is not very good sounding, or you have a unicorn III. Because, I've had 4 C+(SRG, HRG, HRG++, Coli KRG) and 2 IIIs (red, Purple and played a III Coli) and the IIIs all had this harshness to the tone that cannot be dialed out.
The C+s all had the same sweetness to the tone, great clarity and of course the one of a kind feel. And, the 2 IIIs I had all had Mesa 415s and Chinese/Tungsram pre tubes, which are the preferred tube setup for those amps.

At 650 and 700 for each of the Mark IIIs I had, both DRGs, I would have LOVED to keep them and off the C+ which at that time, were around 3K...IF the IIIs were even remotely close in quality of sound.
They weren't.

But, I'd really love to hear a unicorn MK III because IF they truly exist, I'd take a chance on one if it sounded that close. The 2 I had, ugh. No thanks.
 
Racerxrated said:
Dude......

I respect your opinion and all, and you've had/have some great amps. But, either 1 of 2 things are going on with your III/C+.....your C+ is not very good sounding, or you have a unicorn III. Because, I've had 4 C+(SRG, HRG, HRG++, Coli KRG) and 2 IIIs (red, Purple and played a III Coli) and the IIIs all had this harshness to the tone that cannot be dialed out.
The C+s all had the same sweetness to the tone, great clarity and of course the one of a kind feel. And, the 2 IIIs I had all had Mesa 415s and Chinese/Tungsram pre tubes, which are the preferred tube setup for those amps.

At 650 and 700 for each of the Mark IIIs I had, both DRGs, I would have LOVED to keep them and off the C+ which at that time, were around 3K...IF the IIIs were even remotely close in quality of sound.
They weren't.

But, I'd really love to hear a unicorn MK III because IF they truly exist, I'd take a chance on one if it sounded that close. The 2 I had, ugh. No thanks.
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Interesting! Well the IIC+ sounds great and was just fully serviced last year by Mike B, retubed with NOS Sylvanias he sold me, and recapped with Sprague and F&T caps. My Mark III Blue Stripe, I want to be clear, has been modded by Mike B with both the ++ and the R2 mod. So it has been reworked to sound like a IIC+/++. It is also rare in that it is a DRGX and has the export transformer, just like my IIC+. So that might be why they sound very, very close. I'd put more money on the III++ being a unicorn than the IIC+ sounding bad.

I'll record a short clip today for you. Not saying they're going to be identical with the same settings, and I don't have an A/B amp switcher, but they are very close to my ear.

Also, sorry for hijacking your thread @Yehuda but at least you're getting some free bumps my man.
 
Racerxrated said:
Dude......

I respect your opinion and all, and you've had/have some great amps. But, either 1 of 2 things are going on with your III/C+.....your C+ is not very good sounding, or you have a unicorn III. Because, I've had 4 C+(SRG, HRG, HRG++, Coli KRG) and 2 IIIs (red, Purple and played a III Coli) and the IIIs all had this harshness to the tone that cannot be dialed out.
The C+s all had the same sweetness to the tone, great clarity and of course the one of a kind feel. And, the 2 IIIs I had all had Mesa 415s and Chinese/Tungsram pre tubes, which are the preferred tube setup for those amps.

At 650 and 700 for each of the Mark IIIs I had, both DRGs, I would have LOVED to keep them and off the C+ which at that time, were around 3K...IF the IIIs were even remotely close in quality of sound.
They weren't.

But, I'd really love to hear a unicorn MK III because IF they truly exist, I'd take a chance on one if it sounded that close. The 2 I had, ugh. No thanks.
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I’ve tried lots of mark iii’s in all stripes as well as coli ++’s red, blue and no stripes (owned 3) and don’t see much likelihood of unicorns with them. They all had those inherent mark iii vs iic+ differences in sound. Some guys for whatever reason just like the IV’s or III’s as much or more sometimes
 
hellzington said:
Interesting! Well the IIC+ sounds great and was just fully serviced last year by Mike B, retubed with NOS Sylvanias he sold me, and recapped with Sprague and F&T caps. My Mark III Blue Stripe, I want to be clear, has been modded by Mike B with both the ++ and the R2 mod. So it has been reworked to sound like a IIC+/++. It is also rare in that it is a DRGX and has the export transformer, just like my IIC+. So that might be why they sound very, very close. I'd put more money on the III++ being a unicorn than the IIC+ sounding bad.

I'll record a short clip today for you. Not saying they're going to be identical with the same settings, and I don't have an A/B amp switcher, but they are very close to my ear.

Also, sorry for hijacking your thread @Yehuda but at least you're getting some free bumps my man.
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I’ll take all the bumps haha
 
My early III black stripe was close enough to me… Not harsh, real liquid, sounded great. If I didn’t get a IIC+ for 2 grand, there is ZERO chance I would’ve done the swap. Sure there’s some difference there. But there’s zero chance I would pay a premium for a IIc+ over an early iii at a reasonable price. I haven’t played a red either, and I hear that’s the next closest thing.
 
hellzington said:
Interesting! Well the IIC+ sounds great and was just fully serviced last year by Mike B, retubed with NOS Sylvanias he sold me, and recapped with Sprague and F&T caps. My Mark III Blue Stripe, I want to be clear, has been modded by Mike B with both the ++ and the R2 mod. So it has been reworked to sound like a IIC+/++. It is also rare in that it is a DRGX and has the export transformer, just like my IIC+. So that might be why they sound very, very close. I'd put more money on the III++ being a unicorn than the IIC+ sounding bad.

I'll record a short clip today for you. Not saying they're going to be identical with the same settings, and I don't have an A/B amp switcher, but they are very close to my ear.

Also, sorry for hijacking your thread @Yehuda but at least you're getting some free bumps my man.
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There's been a few guys here, over the years that have directly compared their C+ and a III and swear they are close. Not many but a few since I joined back in 12. I'm sure they exist. I just didn't have that experience personally.
But, I did have a regret in my first C+....it came to me as a 2C combo, from a NY GC for 749$....that damn thing as a stock C was INCREDIBLE...it sounded like a Mesa version of a Fisher Trainwreck....just raw, jagged and brutal with great clarity....raw monster. Of course, I had to send it in for the + mod...and came back great, but lost that jagged raw thing it had.
That's one I wish I could do over.
 
Racerxrated said:
There's been a few guys here, over the years that have directly compared their C+ and a III and swear they are close. Not many but a few since I joined back in 12. I'm sure they exist. I just didn't have that experience personally.
But, I did have a regret in my first C+....it came to me as a 2C combo, from a NY GC for 749$....that damn thing as a stock C was INCREDIBLE...it sounded like a Mesa version of a Fisher Trainwreck....just raw, jagged and brutal with great clarity....raw monster. Of course, I had to send it in for the + mod...and came back great, but lost that jagged raw thing it had.
That's one I wish I could do over.
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I think some have been pretty close IME, but they also say the devil is in the details and that’s where they totally missed the mark for me (no pun intended). I use to find the mark iii++ no stripe coli I had so close that I considered selling my iic+ hrg, but as my ears evolved I totally changed my mind later. It wasn’t harsh or really sharp in the highs like the later stripes, but still had a messy/unmusical quality in the highs like all iii’s I’ve tried that I think takes away clarity and balance to the sound and just still didn’t have that 3D quality that’s hard to describe. For many it probably could be close enough though. It’s at least not this total night and day difference like a Blueface vs later silverface or any other Diezel that came after
 
braintheory said:
I think some have been pretty close IME, but they also say the devil is in the details and that’s where they totally missed the mark for me (no pun intended). I use to find the mark iii++ no stripe coli I had so close that I considered selling my iic+ hrg, but as my ears evolved I totally changed my mind later. It wasn’t harsh or really sharp in the highs like the later stripes, but still had a messy/unmusical quality in the highs like all iii’s I’ve tried that I think takes away clarity and balance to the sound and just still didn’t have that 3D quality that’s hard to describe. For many it probably could be close enough though. It’s at least not this total night and day difference like a Blueface vs later silverface or any other Diezel that came after
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Yeah this was what I was getting at. I’m not trying to say the IIC+ and III++ are totally identical; but they’re close, and when you’re talking about a $10,000 price difference between the two, it just doesn’t make sense to me. (Unless you’re collecting.) It’s not a totally different amp like the early Diezels versus later ones.
 
hellzington said:
Yeah this was what I was getting at. I’m not trying to say the IIC+ and III++ are totally identical; but they’re close, and when you’re talking about a $10,000 price difference between the two, it just doesn’t make sense to me. (Unless you’re collecting.) It’s not a totally different amp like the early Diezels versus later ones.
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Yeah I don’t disagree. It seems like with all this stuff there’s typcially just a huge premium for the best vs a close 2nd. In my main area classical guitar this can be a 6 figure difference sometime vs $10,000, but it is what it is. For me as gearhead the journey has always been about trying to figure out what are all the very best items regardless if I can afford to even own it myself. I’ll never get a real Dumble, but nothing else I’ve tried was at all in the same league as the one ‘70’s ODS I tried and also I’ve tried some incredible ‘50’s Strats and Tele’s that I also probably will never be able to get myself, but this is where the magic and most inspiring part of gear is for me rather than practical alternatives. That’s boring for me even if I ultimately have to go there. These are the items that become more that just tools imo
 
hellzington said:
Yeah this was what I was getting at. I’m not trying to say the IIC+ and III++ are totally identical; but they’re close, and when you’re talking about a $10,000 price difference between the two, it just doesn’t make sense to me. (Unless you’re collecting.) It’s not a totally different amp like the early Diezels versus later ones.
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For me, I do definitely want the absolute best available option. I wouldn’t pay 10k for sure, but I know people who’ve gotten them for 5-6k in the last year, so mainly hunting for something like that. I recognize the unlikelihood Of finding it, but I’ve found crazier deals for sure
 
Yehuda said:
For me, I do definitely want the absolute best available option. I wouldn’t pay 10k for sure, but I know people who’ve gotten them for 5-6k in the last year, so mainly hunting for something like that. I recognize the unlikelihood Of finding it, but I’ve found crazier deals for sure
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IME going for the most desirable versions tends to also hold their value better (if not go up) even if you have to pay that much more for it

A few years ago I overpaid for a creme 1963 SG Special. It was the most I paid for any electric guitar and felt bad about it, but was able to consign it at a local store and still make a small profit after their commission. I was hoping to just take a small loss and be happy. It sold fast
 
I was just comparing my upgraded c++ SRG to my 3+ Blue Stripe SRG. The 3+ is really good but the c++ just has more complexity to the tone. A c+ is a lot more fun to play through. In band setting it might not be as noticeable but side by side it's very apparent.
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No doubt C+ are awesome amps. Personally I love the wild uncontrolled gain of the MKIII amps. Like most high gain amps in a mix it’s hard if not impossible to tell the difference. The C+ has its own vibe. Personally I think they are priced in crazy territory these days. My buddy has a C+ and lots of various stripes from stock to ++ modded. My biggest complaint with the C+ reviews are all the Metallica sound like YouTube videos. Mike Portnoy makes them sing.
If you gotta have one get one. Personally unless I could find a honest deal I’d go with a MKIII and have Mike B mod it close enough. Use the difference to buy a few other amps.
 
braintheory said:
I’ve tried lots of mark iii’s in all stripes as well as coli ++’s red, blue and no stripes (owned 3) and don’t see much likelihood of unicorns with them. They all had those inherent mark iii vs iic+ differences in sound. Some guys for whatever reason just like the IV’s or III’s as much or more sometimes
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IIC+ have a clearer gain character but IIC++ just do not sound good to my ears. The extended highs of a blue stripe III can actually take advantage of the ++ mode and put the gain to use. It’s not as razor defined as a IIC+ but it’s still its own thing that I just prefer more.
 
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