Frontline205 & GJgo test the IIC+ Reissue against the OG!

[GJgo]

Well I know that the green stripe has the same exact pre-amp circuit as a blue stripe, and the blue stripe is the most obnoxious one of them all, so maybe you just got lucky on that one? The right tolerance drift to smooth it out maybe? I always hear that graininess and harshness in every Mark III I listen to... My red stripe had it, and that's supposed to be the one closest to the IIC+.

That's what "they" say, but I've had three blue stripes & played others and for the most part I couldn't stand to listen to them they made my ears ring so bad from the frequencies. The only exception was the 1999 blue III+ I had.

This green stripe, even stock, is a completely different animal and no ear fatigue at all.

The reds & later are a fundamental shift away from the III tone into hair metal territory. I've had black stripes that felt pretty close to a C+, especially III+ modded, never had a red or later that felt close. YMMV..

 

[frontline205]

Some amps should be left alone.

My biggest mod regret was my first 2C+. 750$ from an upstate NY GC, as a 2C SRG combo it had the most raw, aggressive, jagged tone I've ever heard. Just awesome. But, I had to have Mike B mod it to a +. It was going to be even better as a C+. Wrong. The + mod gave it more gain, and the loop now worked like a good loop should but the tone was much more polite, smoother...it was still a great amp but I should have left it alone.
Never heard another amp with as much secret sauce as that one. Kinda like a Mesa Mark Trainwreck...gonna blow up at anytime.

You’re the first person I ever seen who regretted modding a C to a C+. But that’s sucks you lost out on a good amp

 

[nightlight]

Oh I did for sure. Thanks for asking. It was fun playing those cool amps and the IIC+ amps do have an amazing feel you can’t get in other amps. My favorite was that III+. I might have to make a call to Mesa down the line

Glad you're home safe!

I think next year I'm going to capture the Mark III amp section of my Mesa Boogie Quad.

Not sure if mine has been modded, or is stock, it is such a cool amp though.

The Mark III side is much more aggressive than the IIC(+?) side, but a really cool thing about the Quad is that you can run both the Mark II and Mark III sides simultaneously.

This is an old video with both sides activated and pretty much everything turned up to 10. Mix sucks as always haha

 

[glpg80]

You’re the first person I ever seen who regretted modding a C to a C+. But that’s sucks you lost out on a good amp

The only improvements between a C and a C+ involve the effects loop though. Very odd.

 

[GJgo]

You’re the first person I ever seen who regretted modding a C to a C+. But that’s sucks you lost out on a good amp

Now he's the second. My first was a IIC HRG. It was a raw, philthy animal stock, with stunning cleans, and my experience was exactly the same as Tom's. The amp became polite. I think that's why I prefer the IIB for rhythms- it wantes to rip your face off where the IIC+ wantes to serenade you.

I've had a number of +/++ upgrades and the rest were worth it, with the exception of the C+ HR I had upgraded to C++ was a mistake. What I've learned the hard way with many different amps is that if you love the amp as-is, DON'T MOD IT. If you wish it was "more", then go for it.

Side note, I've also formed the opinion that the C++ mod is better suited to Simul amps than A/B amps. Not that it's bad, but it's better on a Simul. Possibly because triode is weak.

 

[c+addict]

Not all IIc's were created equal. The later ones have more gain and are closer to a c+.

 

[GJgo]

Not all C+ were created equal either. There's a constant progression in tone from the very first Mark all the way to the IVb.

Then progression stopped.

 

[Racerxrated]

You’re the first person I ever seen who regretted modding a C to a C+. But that’s sucks you lost out on a good amp

Don't get me wrong; it was a no brainer to do it since a C+ was so desirable, worth 4X what I paid for the amp etc...But I never thought it would take the sound it had, and totally change the nature of it. As a C+ it still killed but man, that thing stock as a 2C was unreal. This was also my first chance at a C+ so I had to take it.

I had another amp, a 1988 Jubilee 2554 combo that was also special. Very creamy in the mids, in a super pleasing way...Reminded me of Micheal Schenker tone....I sold it to fund a Cameron Marshall, but eventually I wanted that 2554 tone back but none of the 4 others had that same tone the first one had.
Lesson: When you have a great amp, leave it alone Lol. And, Keep it!

 

[FastRedPonyCar]

I've heard about the Mark VII not really being able to cut live, is this an issue you've had? Also, how's the low end, some people say it's got tons of low end, some people say it lacks...?? I'm seriously considering getting one of these or a IIC+ reissue, or a JP2C. One of the 3 some day.

LOL the VII is one of the best sounding live amps I've ever used. It sits in a stage mix unbelievably well. If you want low end to overthrow your bass player then yeah you may have a bad time but it's certainly not lacking in a healthy amount of low end punch. That has more to do with your cab than the amp though (IMO)

The JP2C is on my short list of amps to try out hopefully early next year and play side by side with the VII to see sort of how they both sound with my splawn 4x12 which is what I use in all my videos as well as how they both compare running into my ox box then to my ZLX12 FRFR which is what I use on stage.

 

[GJgo]

LOL the VII is one of the best sounding live amps I've ever used. It sits in a stage mix unbelievably well. If you want low end to overthrow your bass player then yeah you may have a bad time but it's certainly not lacking in a healthy amount of low end punch. That has more to do with your cab than the amp though (IMO)

The JP2C is on my short list of amps to try out hopefully early next year and play side by side with the VII to see sort of how they both sound with my splawn 4x12 which is what I use in all my videos as well as how they both compare running into my ox box then to my ZLX12 FRFR which is what I use on stage.

Curious, have you ever gigged a Mark II, III or IV through a 4x12?

If you're coming from modelers, IRs and lunchbox amps, I can see how the VII is impressive. IMO however if you're coming from Mark IIs, IIIs or IVs it's a kinesthetic letdown. It's not that the VII doesn't have bottom end, it's that it doesn't move any air.

 

[BenoA]

I received my IIC+RI today. Pulled it out of the box and just wanted to say that it rocks. Started with the cardboard settings for fun and then moved to my own and still exploring the amp. It's freakin' loud for someone who lives in a condo as I do but with an attenuator you can tame the beast. Very happy and sounds as I was expecting.

Anyone knows a good Mesa Vertical 2x12 IR I could use with my IR loader?

 

[311splawndude]

LOL the VII is one of the best sounding live amps I've ever used. It sits in a stage mix unbelievably well. If you want low end to overthrow your bass player then yeah you may have a bad time but it's certainly not lacking in a healthy amount of low end punch. That has more to do with your cab than the amp though (IMO)

The JP2C is on my short list of amps to try out hopefully early next year and play side by side with the VII to see sort of how they both sound with my splawn 4x12 which is what I use in all my videos as well as how they both compare running into my ox box then to my ZLX12 FRFR which is what I use on stage.

Hey man - long time to see. Where you been hanging?

Still have your Splawn?

 

[FastRedPonyCar]

Hey man - long time to see. Where you been hanging?

Still have your Splawn?

Yeah man Mufasa is still here. I recently re-reviewed it on my channel after 16 years of owning it. Still the loudest and hardest hitting amp I've ever plugged into (louder than the 100w plexi I used to own)

 

[FastRedPonyCar]

Curious, have you ever gigged a Mark II, III or IV through a 4x12?

If you're coming from modelers, IRs and lunchbox amps, I can see how the VII is impressive. IMO however if you're coming from Mark IIs, IIIs or IVs it's a kinesthetic letdown. It's not that the VII doesn't have bottom end, it's that it doesn't move any air.

I run it through my splawn 4x12 at home and while it doesn't hit like my Nitro, it punches harder than my 50w Jubilee and SLO. I haven't felt like it was lacking in the ability to shake walls and move air.

That said, I haven't gigged with a 4x12 in like a decade. I occasionally will take my port city OS 2x12 out but even that's a pain. Most guys just bring a 1x12 or a 1x12 combo to shows or go DI and use an FRFR. No one is dragging 4x12's out to the clubs and bars where I play and half the places won't let you bring cabs at all and a few places are DI only and in ears only.

It works out for all of us guitar players in the area because we can easily get away with bringing lunch box amps and little IR devices like the Surh Reactive load IR and Captor X to shows or modelers and get perfectly good sounds.

There's 100% absolutely a difference between that and a 4x12 but the hassle of dragging a huge cab to shows is a thing of the past for myself and most of my buddies in town. That and the crowds could not care less. As long as the singer doesn't F up the words to the song and is somewhat engaging, no one cares.

 

[anomaly]

Not all C+ were created equal either. There's a constant progression in tone from the very first Mark all the way to the IVb.

Then progression stopped.

100% true, there's clearly a progression in tone from the IIb to the IVb, then it stops and they start releasing greatest hits Mark's. I guess they though there was no more ground to break after the IV, or they got lazy??

 

[GJgo]

I run it through my splawn 4x12 at home and while it doesn't hit like my Nitro, it punches harder than my 50w Jubilee and SLO. I haven't felt like it was lacking in the ability to shake walls and move air.

That said, I haven't gigged with a 4x12 in like a decade. I occasionally will take my port city OS 2x12 out but even that's a pain. Most guys just bring a 1x12 or a 1x12 combo to shows or go DI and use an FRFR. No one is dragging 4x12's out to the clubs and bars where I play and half the places won't let you bring cabs at all and a few places are DI only and in ears only.

It works out for all of us guitar players in the area because we can easily get away with bringing lunch box amps and little IR devices like the Surh Reactive load IR and Captor X to shows or modelers and get perfectly good sounds.

There's 100% absolutely a difference between that and a 4x12 but the hassle of dragging a huge cab to shows is a thing of the past for myself and most of my buddies in town. That and the crowds could not care less. As long as the singer doesn't F up the words to the song and is somewhat engaging, no one cares.

Interesting, thanks for the perspective. We definitely live in different musical environments. Everyone doing anything heavy is bringing a half stack, and I generally bring a full stack.

I could see the MkVII out punching a 50W Marshall. I'm suprised to hear you say it out punches your SLO though. Which one? The SLO 100 I had was UUUGE.

 

[FastRedPonyCar]

Interesting, thanks for the perspective. We definitely live in different musical environments. Everyone doing anything heavy is bringing a half stack, and I generally bring a full stack.

I could see the MkVII out punching a 50W Marshall. I'm suprised to hear you say it out punches your SLO though. Which one? The SLO 100 I had was UUUGE.

It's a custom built 50w SLO by Bruce at Brit-Tone amplification.

I gigged with a few different versions of it with various mods like the warren haynes mod, one with a linear taper gain control on the lead channel, a standard 100w and a 50w and I liked the non modded 50w version the best.

 

[Smash]

@frontline205 made the 5 hour drive to bring his IIC+ Reissue to my place today where we set it up & play tested against my OG IIC+, III+ and B+, with my 2001 Recto Trad cabs as well as a newer 1960A cab. Hell yeah!! Wanted to start a fresh thread where we can talk about the experience. He was also cool enough to let me pull the chassis & test the tubes, plate voltage etc.. Another bud of mine was on hand but he's not a forum member, maybe I can coax him in for his thoughts.

First let me say, Mark is a nice guy & a KILLER player and it was a real pleasure to listen to him jam! Nice to meet you man, hope to do it again sometime!

Here are my thoughts in no particular order. Mark is driving home right now, I'm sure he'll weigh in later and fill in my gaps / tell it from his perspective. I did start all amps with the same settings & made some tweaks as he played to try & line things up in the room / get a better idea.

Can confirm that the IIC+ RI is using the same PT as the Mark VII and current JP-2Cs. P/N 561860. However, this unit I measured at 483 pV. My MkVII measured 466 pV and the JP measured 468 pV. Note the four PT105s I've had in OGs measured 490, 500, 505 & 515 pV. The 100s & X101s tended to measure around 465. Also, the OT is P/N 562004. This is also the same unit as in the Mark VII.

This unit shipped with all STR-445 RED. In the Class A slots it was running 34 mV, and the A/B slots were running 23 mV. Hotter could be good on both counts. All tubes tested good on my Orange Valve Tester, and the preamp tubes all tested middle of the road.

Ok sound. As SOON as he started playing I immediately knew that yeah, they got this one right. The IIC+ sound IS all there. This smokes the V, VIII and JP in terms of "that" sound. As the session went on we sorted out that the RI is a little tighter, a touch less gain, and the 5 band EQ has a slightly different range. All good, just not 1:1, so have you dial with your ears.

Ok feels. Playing the RI, it's not QUITE as touch responsive under the fingers as the OG, however I would say that it's still as good if not better than the MkIII which is slightly more stiff & aggressive, but still very organic. Pragmatically, I would say they also got this right. It's just a *little* tighter but still bouncy & liquid, just not quiiiite as much so. The JP had good tone, but not THIS tone, and did not have these feels at all.

The Good? My goal was to see this be 90-95% as good as the OG, where I'd call it good, and from my seat I can say the amp is a win. If a guy can't score an OG, I'd HAPPILY recommend a reissue. If I didn't have an OG I'd totally want one of these. I don't think it would kick an OG out of bed all else equal, but for the market price difference the RI would be hard to say no to. Gibson or not, this is a good amp and I can't wait to see them on stage. Oh yeah and..! The taper on Master 1 is.. LINEAR!!!! Crazy shit.

Now the Bad. Not a lot, honestly. I will say compared to an OG there is a little less push, but it's subtle and you may not notice without A/Bing. It still chugs, just not quite as much chest pummelling. You can hear it in the vid though. This is a far cry from the Mark VII that had NO push comparing to an OG. Also I will say that like the JP and the VII there is this mid-hump that's present and hard to dial out. I don't hate it as it works in the live band, but like the other modern Marks it is there. You can also hear it in the vid.

Ok so how about the squeal? From my seat, it's a non-issue. Yes we go it to squeal, bit it was running the top end & gain so high with all the pulls in a way that I would never do, unless MAYBE I was going for as hot as I could make it at bedroom volume. Even after the vid when I boosted the amp it was quiet, and awesome BTW. Took the Chiron well. So, from my seat this seems to be a non-issue.

Now the vid!! I captured the experience, check it out. Note the KRG OG is on half power (~60w) and the III+ is on Simul Class mode (85w) to make it as fair as we could. The KRG IIB is still on full power, though... (180W)

IIC+ RI 0:00
IIC+ OG 3:44
III+ Green 6:35
IIC+ RI 9:57
IIB+ 13:45
IIB+ Klone boosted 15:31



End of the day? This amp is a WIN, and first blush, the best Mark Mesa has put out since the IVb. Feel free to ignore the haters who are coming up with reasons not to like this even though they haven't played one yet, and feel free to continue ignoring the shit demos the companies put out. Between this and @hellzington 's excellent reamp demo I think we're good here.

At first, i was hesitant to click on the youtube link, because there were no CAPS or arrows or constipated douche faces.

But then I powered through my fear and the world didnt explode. Thanks for being a fucking man, son. You and @hellzington and a few others just keep making real shit.

 

[GJgo]

At first, i was hesitant to click on the youtube link, because there were no CAPS or arrows or constipated douche faces.

But then I powered through my fear and the world didnt explode. Thanks for being a fucking man, son. You and @hellzington and a few others just keep making real shit.

You're welcome my man. I'll keep on making real shit first thing every morning!

 

[Racerxrated]

It's a custom built 50w SLO by Bruce at Brit-Tone amplification.

I gigged with a few different versions of it with various mods like the warren haynes mod, one with a linear taper gain control on the lead channel, a standard 100w and a 50w and I liked the non modded 50w version the best.

I'm sure the SLO clone is cool. I've played one at a Music Go Round long ago. But, it isn't even close to the punch a Soldano SLO 100 has. The only amps that can 'maybe' out punch the SLO is a 100w Wizard, my 72 Superlead, a 100w HiWatt..and a Mesa Coliseum. There 'might' be more but those are the amps I've owned/tried.
The SLO clone I played was almost dead nuts to the Soldano HR 100 I also had long ago. Cool amp, but didn't have the punch/thump of the SLO.