Frontline205 & GJgo test the IIC+ Reissue against the OG!

Racerxrated said:
I'm sure the SLO clone is cool. I've played one at a Music Go Round long ago. But, it isn't even close to the punch a Soldano SLO 100 has. The only amps that can 'maybe' out punch the SLO is a 100w Wizard, my 72 Superlead, a 100w HiWatt..and a Mesa Coliseum. There 'might' be more but those are the amps I've owned/tried.
The SLO clone I played was almost dead nuts to the Soldano HR 100 I also had long ago. Cool amp, but didn't have the punch/thump of the SLO.
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Ya...an SLO 100 at volume is as much a physical experience as it is an aural one.
 
GJgo said:
Curious, have you ever gigged a Mark II, III or IV through a 4x12?

If you're coming from modelers, IRs and lunchbox amps, I can see how the VII is impressive. IMO however if you're coming from Mark IIs, IIIs or IVs it's a kinesthetic letdown. It's not that the VII doesn't have bottom end, it's that it doesn't move any air.
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Curious, have you ever played through a Mark VII through a real cab (like my Mesa 2X12 vertical)? I have one and it moves air just as expected. All of the Mark V's that I have played through sound too compressed, boxy, and are unimpressive. Maybe check your cab or settings. I think the Mark VII is Randall's masterpiece and sounds great.... It's not a one trick pony.
 
Red Snapper said:
Curious, have you ever played through a Mark VII through a real cab (like my Mesa 2X12 vertical)? I have one and it moves air just as expected. All of the Mark V's that I have played through sound too compressed, boxy, and are unimpressive. Maybe check your cab or settings. I think the Mark VII is Randall's masterpiece and sounds great.... It's not a one trick pony.
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He's got 4 Mesa 412s I think. So, yes he's got the right setup. The Mk VII is like an EVH 5153 100w...they get loud, but don't punch you..thump or otherwise. It's a different Experience vs say a Wizard 100w, old Superlead, SLO, Mesa Coliseum, VHT Deliverance etc. Those amps have higher PV and pack a punch at volume that hits you in the chest. It's kind of addicting to have amps do that at volume. Once you have that, it's hard to really enjoy amps that don't punch, as much.
The VII is a great sounding amp, as is the JP2C. But they lack the punch of those amps I mentioned.
 
Racerxrated said:
He's got 4 Mesa 412s I think. So, yes he's got the right setup. The Mk VII is like an EVH 5153 100w...they get loud, but don't punch you..thump or otherwise. It's a different Experience vs say a Wizard 100w, old Superlead, SLO, Mesa Coliseum, VHT Deliverance etc. Those amps have higher PV and pack a punch at volume that hits you in the chest. It's kind of addicting to have amps do that at volume. Once you have that, it's hard to really enjoy amps that don't punch, as much.
The VII is a great sounding amp, as is the JP2C. But they lack the punch of those amps I mentioned.
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I have three 4x12s and two 2x12s... The Mark VII is nothing like an EVH 5153 as I had one and returned it and bought an OG SLO 100. I also have a Marshall 1959HW (obviously not a 1969/68 which I will have soon). However, my Mark VII punches hard for a cascaded gain amp. The only one I have not tested this against is an early Dual Recto. Thanks for answering for him.
 
Red Snapper said:
I have three 4x12s and two 2x12s... The Mark VII is nothing like an EVH 5153 as I had one and returned it and bought an OG SLO 100. I also have a Marshall 1959HW (obviously not a 1969/68 which I will have soon). However, my Mark VII punches hard for a cascaded gain amp. The only one I have not tested this against is an early Dual Recto. Thanks for answering for him.
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He'll answer I'm sure. I've played a VII. Maybe you misunderstand me. The VII has tone that is nothing like an EVH, I get that. But I'm talking about how it reacts at high volume; which IS similar to the 5153 100 I had. They both get loud, but don't have the punch of other amps, at volume. There is a difference.
 
Racerxrated said:
He'll answer I'm sure. I've played a VII. Maybe you misunderstand me. The VII has tone that is nothing like an EVH, I get that. But I'm talking about how it reacts at high volume; which IS similar to the 5153 100 I had. They both get loud, but don't have the punch of other amps, at volume. There is a difference.
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I just went downstairs to the studio and played for a few minutes on the Mark VII. Punch was there. It's not a Plexi punch, but it's there. How much punch do you need for a mid frequency accentuated amp? If you need more punch maybe you're playing the wrong amp? Again, what I'm saying is the Mark VII is a great sounding amp that does more than chugg-chugg; however it does that very well. More so than any Mark V
 
Red Snapper said:
I just went downstairs to the studio and played for a few minutes on the Mark VII. Punch was there. It's not a Plexi punch, but it's there. How much punch do you need for a mid frequency accentuated amp? If you need more punch maybe you're playing the wrong amp? Again, what I'm saying is the Mark VII is a great sounding amp that does more than chugg-chugg; however it does that very well. More so than any Mark V
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It's not a matter of 'how much do you need' lol...it's a matter of, when you own an amp that punches BIGGER than others, it gets kind of 'addicting' if you will to have that punch with any amp that I might buy. So, when I try an amp that doesn't have it, there's a good chance I sell or return it. Just something that I feel is important to have. I do agree the MK VII sounds better than the MK V I played long ago...in fact, the JP and MK VII are fantastic tones. But the V does have the punch factor over the VII.
It's the little details that can make a big difference on each of us deciding on an amp, or passing.
If Mesa were to up the plate voltage/change the Neg Feedback on the VII that might get the amp to punch like the others I mentioned.
The VII is a great amp though, for sure.
 
Racerxrated said:
I'm sure the SLO clone is cool. I've played one at a Music Go Round long ago. But, it isn't even close to the punch a Soldano SLO 100 has. The only amps that can 'maybe' out punch the SLO is a 100w Wizard, my 72 Superlead, a 100w HiWatt..and a Mesa Coliseum. There 'might' be more but those are the amps I've owned/tried.
The SLO clone I played was almost dead nuts to the Soldano HR 100 I also had long ago. Cool amp, but didn't have the punch/thump of the SLO.
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Try the uber or hellion. As my memory serves, hellion identical punch to wizard, but the uber definitely punches as hard as anything.
 
Racerxrated said:
It's not a matter of 'how much do you need' lol...it's a matter of, when you own an amp that punches BIGGER than others, it gets kind of 'addicting' if you will to have that punch with any amp that I might buy. So, when I try an amp that doesn't have it, there's a good chance I sell or return it. Just something that I feel is important to have. I do agree the MK VII sounds better than the MK V I played long ago...in fact, the JP and MK VII are fantastic tones. But the V does have the punch factor over the VII.
It's the little details that can make a big difference on each of us deciding on an amp, or passing.
If Mesa were to up the plate voltage/change the Neg Feedback on the VII that might get the amp to punch like the others I mentioned.
The VII is a great amp though, for sure.
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I have amps that have major punch, and then I have amps that have "lesser punch" as you call it. It's all a matter of what is needed in the mix/live situation. My ENGL Savage 120 MKII does not have the punch as my other amps, but is made up for in a live situation. To me.... punch factor is nothing compared to tone... Do you put punch (moving air/low bass frequencies < 120 Hz) above tone? I sure hope not...
 
Racerxrated said:
It's not a matter of 'how much do you need' lol...it's a matter of, when you own an amp that punches BIGGER than others, it gets kind of 'addicting'
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This is very true. When i sold my wizard, even though i got a better sounding amp imo, the lack of punch was very fucking hard to get over.

Luckily a year later i flipped a switch on the negative feedback or bright switch and now my amp HITS. Still no wizard, but very fulfilling for a 50 watter
 
Red Snapper said:
I have amps that have major punch, and then I have amps that have "lesser punch" as you call it. It's all a matter of what is needed in the mix/live situation. My ENGL Savage 120 MKII does not have the punch as my other amps, but is made up for in a live situation. To me.... punch factor is nothing compared to tone... Do you put punch (moving air/low bass frequencies < 120 Hz) above tone? I sure hope not...
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I think for me, the tone is really important. If you are gigging tone no contest.

But for a hobbyist, the punch gives you far more enjoyment.

Then if you get both the tone and feel, that is where it is really at
 
Red Snapper said:
I have amps that have major punch, and then I have amps that have "lesser punch" as you call it. It's all a matter of what is needed in the mix/live situation. My ENGL Savage 120 MKII does not have the punch as my other amps, but is made up for in a live situation. To me.... punch factor is nothing compared to tone... Do you put punch (moving air/low bass frequencies < 120 Hz) above tone? I sure hope not...
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Well, we weren't talking about which is MORE important...for me, my 1972 Supertremolo slays all. Nothing comes close...I've sold a particularly killer 100w Wizard MC1, a C+ Coliseum, and a few great JCM 800 2203s because the 72 has the best tone, and comes with the biggest punch as well. And, when I run a Griff Tone Ripper Distortion in front, the vol on the pedal works as a Master vol allowing for low vol playing with lots of clear, saturated gain. This setup also allows for a 2 ch amp when I set the clean tone and pedal tone to unity vol. I played out for 35 years, and would have loved to use this rig if I still played out.
So, the key is to find an amp that has great tone, AND punches hard as well. My 72 does both.
 
Racerxrated said:
Well, we weren't talking about which is MORE important...for me, my 1972 Supertremolo slays all. Nothing comes close...I've sold a particularly killer 100w Wizard MC1, a C+ Coliseum, and a few great JCM 800 2203s because the 72 has the best tone, and comes with the biggest punch as well. And, when I run a Griff Tone Ripper Distortion in front, the vol on the pedal works as a Master vol allowing for low vol playing with lots of clear, saturated gain. This setup also allows for a 2 ch amp when I set the clean tone and pedal tone to unity vol. I played out for 35 years, and would have loved to use this rig if I still played out.
So, the key is to find an amp that has great tone, AND punches hard as well. My 72 does both.
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As I mentioned, there is a difference between a Marshall Plexi PUNCH and a Mesa PUNCH. I have both so I am aware... Thanks for the key to finding both. I have found both.
 
Red Snapper said:
As I mentioned, there is a difference between a Marshall Plexi PUNCH and a Mesa PUNCH. I have both so I am aware... Thanks for the key to finding both. I have found both.
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Yeah, I don't really think there's a difference between amp brands regarding punch. Either the amp punches, or it doesn't.
Mesa Coliseum punches, with Mesa tone.
Marshall Superlead punches, with Marshall tone.
You're describing the different tones with each...but they both punch in the same manner...they both also have very high plate voltage, which seems to correspond to amps that have that punch...both have PV in the 540-560v range.

Anyway, that's one factor that I enjoy, and is a requirement for my amp stable. YMMV, and all that.
 
Racerxrated said:
Yeah, I don't really think there's a difference between amp brands regarding punch. Either the amp punches, or it doesn't.
Mesa Coliseum punches, with Mesa tone.
Marshall Superlead punches, with Marshall tone.
You're describing the different tones with each...but they both punch in the same manner...they both also have very high plate voltage, which seems to correspond to amps that have that punch...both have PV in the 540-560v range.

Anyway, that's one factor that I enjoy, and is a requirement for my amp stable. YMMV, and all that.
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Wow! Have you ever looked at a spectrum analysis of an analog signal? I guess not. Not all amps output the same "punch" as you call it. Each manufacturer outputs a signal made up of different levels of the same audio frequencies. So to say "there's not a difference in punch with amp brands" is totally wrong. There are different levels of each frequency between bands. Please research audio engineering before you post false statements.
 
Red Snapper said:
Wow! Have you ever looked at a spectrum analysis of an analog signal? I guess not. Not all amps output the same "punch" as you call it. Each manufacturer outputs a signal made up of different levels of the same audio frequencies. So to say "there's not a difference in punch with amp brands" is totally wrong. There are different levels of each frequency between bands. Please research audio engineering before you post false statements.
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???

Wtf are you even talking about? Are you another 'engineer type' who thinks they know everything?? Sure seems like it. This is really a simple subject. Either the amp punches hard, like a Marshall Superlead or a Mesa Coliseum; or it punches like a pussy, like the Mk VII or an EVH 5153 100w.
Don't be a pussy.
 
Racerxrated said:
???

Wtf are you even talking about? Are you another 'engineer type' who thinks they know everything?? Sure seems like it. This is really a simple subject. Either the amp punches hard, like a Marshall Superlead or a Mesa Coliseum; or it punches like a pussy, like the Mk VII or an EVH 5153 100w.
Don't be a pussy.
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You sound like an ignorant person who thinks they know a "little" about amps because you have a few... Whooo! You're the pussy since you cannot explain how different manufacturers tune their tone stacks. You can't even describe what "punch hard" means. Grow up and learn about tube amps boy!
 
Red Snapper said:
Curious, have you ever played through a Mark VII through a real cab (like my Mesa 2X12 vertical)? I have one and it moves air just as expected. All of the Mark V's that I have played through sound too compressed, boxy, and are unimpressive. Maybe check your cab or settings. I think the Mark VII is Randall's masterpiece and sounds great.... It's not a one trick pony.
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Perhaps someday Jeremy will have the opportunity to play a VII through a 2x12 vertical and know what real punch is!
Until then he’ll have to settle for his Coliseums through his four 4x12’s…:hys:
 
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