alazarus13
New member
depends. jcm800 is one trick pony but really good for that hard rock/heavy metal
H
headcrash
New member
As far as the Fryette vs. Wizard debate I'd like to share my experiences, as well as some with the Marshall Silver Jubilee. I have experience with clones of all of those. Please keep in mind, that I'm going to describe my personal experiences of course, and I built these clones by myself using components that are widely available.
I had an original 1x12 combo in the late 90s, which I unfortunately sold to fund a DSL50 head. Well... can't say this was a mistake, but I always liked and remembered that Jubilee tone, but never liked combos.
Fast forward a few years, after the DSL and some ENGLs, I started building my own amps, which were kind of a marshallized ENGL topology. I got tired or got over this kind of tone, and stumbled across the Friedman Small Box, which I had to built a clone of. This brought me back to a less saturated, still modern (or timeless) tone, and in 2017 I finally decided to build a 50W Jubilee clone, after so many video clips appeared of the reissues.
The Jubilees are really unique circuit-wise (which still I am fascinated by), and apart from classic hard rock tones as far as the EQ curve is concerned, you can dial it in to sound very unique as well with this unusual tone stack behaviour.
They can stay tight, if you use the input gain with care
It has a bright cap across the gain pot, thus may start to mud out a little above the 6..7..8 mark, depending on what pickup you use. However, this may not be a higain tone to everyone, maybe more like a midgain. It was higain enough for me to play classic 90s/00s chug styles (drop D standard).
The OG Wizard MC's lead channel (and also mostly the MC II) basically is a Jubilee's gain channel boosted with a single tube stage for more gain, and a way less effective (meaning: fairly standard) tone stack. It is very tight in a sense of filtering out bass and lower mids before the gain stages, so you'd have a hard time getting it to muddy up. However, to me the Wizard MC clone I built is quite a bit more compressed, thus not as explosive or impactful with chugs, as the Jubilee, when dialing in both to the same amount of perceived gain.
Now with the OG Deliverance 60 clone, the explosiveness is there. You CAN still dial it in to be muddy (turning up gain I to "thick"), but with the two gain knobs you're quite flexible, and you'd always be able to stay tight (in the sense of tight as described above). The explosiveness I tend to trace back mainly to that nfb circuit in the preamp (tightening up bass and lower mids in a rather unusual way), which most of the Fryettes/VHTs have. Maybe this is also something, others would describe as the "dry" or "stiff" feeling, because it's lacking that spongy, bouncy, rubbery, elastic feel for chugs like all the SLO/5150/Recto based amps.
As to Hiwatt-ish-ness of Fryettes and Wizards: I have no experience with classic Hiwatts from the early 70s for example, but in the new Anderton's clip, I can hear some "dryness" in bass and lower mids, but only in the crunch / edge-of breakup area (the classic Hiwatt circuits don't do modern gain levels unboosted). It almost sounds to me as if the distortion and some compression in the highs and upper mids is blend with a rather clean bass and low mid.
Maybe this what many are reminded of when playing a Deliverance or Pittbull using the Deliverance's Less mode or the Pittbull's Normal mode (lower gain).
However, the Wizard MC to me falls more in the modded Marshall vein.
Both have an almost exact same tone stack, as far as the corner frequencies is concerned. But the tone stack in the MC is plate fed, whereas the Fryette one is CF driven plus there is the above mentioned nfb circuit (which feeds back from after the CF to the last gain stage). So you'd always have to take look at the whole picture.
Conclusion:
I like the Deliverance way more than the Wizard MC. And this is mainly because I found that tightness AND explosiveness in the Deliverance, and couldn't in the Wizard. In fact, that Deliverance clone is the best amp I ever had, period.
All of the above mentioned amps I don't consider to be particularly "vintage" sounding, in a sense of 70s or even 60s sound. I'm sure the (Fryette-made) modern Sound City amps, or some classic Hiwatt circuits have a more vintage-y character to them.
On a side note i found the old 90s Laney GH50L/GH100L circuits to be very fat and still tight and also quite explosive for low to midgain sounds (thus not using the extra switchable gain stage). They can be had very cheap on the used market and are built really well.
I had an original 1x12 combo in the late 90s, which I unfortunately sold to fund a DSL50 head. Well... can't say this was a mistake, but I always liked and remembered that Jubilee tone, but never liked combos.
Fast forward a few years, after the DSL and some ENGLs, I started building my own amps, which were kind of a marshallized ENGL topology. I got tired or got over this kind of tone, and stumbled across the Friedman Small Box, which I had to built a clone of. This brought me back to a less saturated, still modern (or timeless) tone, and in 2017 I finally decided to build a 50W Jubilee clone, after so many video clips appeared of the reissues.
The Jubilees are really unique circuit-wise (which still I am fascinated by), and apart from classic hard rock tones as far as the EQ curve is concerned, you can dial it in to sound very unique as well with this unusual tone stack behaviour.
They can stay tight, if you use the input gain with care
It has a bright cap across the gain pot, thus may start to mud out a little above the 6..7..8 mark, depending on what pickup you use. However, this may not be a higain tone to everyone, maybe more like a midgain. It was higain enough for me to play classic 90s/00s chug styles (drop D standard).The OG Wizard MC's lead channel (and also mostly the MC II) basically is a Jubilee's gain channel boosted with a single tube stage for more gain, and a way less effective (meaning: fairly standard) tone stack. It is very tight in a sense of filtering out bass and lower mids before the gain stages, so you'd have a hard time getting it to muddy up. However, to me the Wizard MC clone I built is quite a bit more compressed, thus not as explosive or impactful with chugs, as the Jubilee, when dialing in both to the same amount of perceived gain.
Now with the OG Deliverance 60 clone, the explosiveness is there. You CAN still dial it in to be muddy (turning up gain I to "thick"), but with the two gain knobs you're quite flexible, and you'd always be able to stay tight (in the sense of tight as described above). The explosiveness I tend to trace back mainly to that nfb circuit in the preamp (tightening up bass and lower mids in a rather unusual way), which most of the Fryettes/VHTs have. Maybe this is also something, others would describe as the "dry" or "stiff" feeling, because it's lacking that spongy, bouncy, rubbery, elastic feel for chugs like all the SLO/5150/Recto based amps.
As to Hiwatt-ish-ness of Fryettes and Wizards: I have no experience with classic Hiwatts from the early 70s for example, but in the new Anderton's clip, I can hear some "dryness" in bass and lower mids, but only in the crunch / edge-of breakup area (the classic Hiwatt circuits don't do modern gain levels unboosted). It almost sounds to me as if the distortion and some compression in the highs and upper mids is blend with a rather clean bass and low mid.
Maybe this what many are reminded of when playing a Deliverance or Pittbull using the Deliverance's Less mode or the Pittbull's Normal mode (lower gain).
However, the Wizard MC to me falls more in the modded Marshall vein.
Both have an almost exact same tone stack, as far as the corner frequencies is concerned. But the tone stack in the MC is plate fed, whereas the Fryette one is CF driven plus there is the above mentioned nfb circuit (which feeds back from after the CF to the last gain stage). So you'd always have to take look at the whole picture.
Conclusion:
I like the Deliverance way more than the Wizard MC. And this is mainly because I found that tightness AND explosiveness in the Deliverance, and couldn't in the Wizard. In fact, that Deliverance clone is the best amp I ever had, period.
All of the above mentioned amps I don't consider to be particularly "vintage" sounding, in a sense of 70s or even 60s sound. I'm sure the (Fryette-made) modern Sound City amps, or some classic Hiwatt circuits have a more vintage-y character to them.
On a side note i found the old 90s Laney GH50L/GH100L circuits to be very fat and still tight and also quite explosive for low to midgain sounds (thus not using the extra switchable gain stage). They can be had very cheap on the used market and are built really well.
Z
Zmo87
New member
I thank you for that quite in-depth reply and information. Either way I don't think a wizard will be in my near future. I do think the (newer) deliverance ii will be. I have a jcm800 on order as I feel I need to compare it to my Marshall superbass and pick a "winner between the two". I love the sag/bloom of the low notes with the superbass, but sometimes feel either the bass or extreme warmness of the amp gets in the way of clarity. I'm wondering if the added brightness of the jcm800 will help with that. Otherwise your one of many to bring up the older Laney's. If I don't care for the jcm800 I may take a chance on one of those Laney and start searching for a good amp tech as I will likely need one at some point. Otherwise my end game right now is the deliverance unless the jcm800 blows me away. I'm also considering an orange or30 as I'm thoroughly impressed with my or15, but not sure if it would get me quite the clarity I'm after (although it comes close).As far as the Fryette vs. Wizard debate I'd like to share my experiences, as well as some with the Marshall Silver Jubilee. I have experience with clones of all of those. Please keep in mind, that I'm going to describe my personal experiences of course, and I built these clones by myself using components that are widely available.
I had an original 1x12 combo in the late 90s, which I unfortunately sold to fund a DSL50 head. Well... can't say this was a mistake, but I always liked and remembered that Jubilee tone, but never liked combos.
Fast forward a few years, after the DSL and some ENGLs, I started building my own amps, which were kind of a marshallized ENGL topology. I got tired or got over this kind of tone, and stumbled across the Friedman Small Box, which I had to built a clone of. This brought me back to a less saturated, still modern (or timeless) tone, and in 2017 I finally decided to build a 50W Jubilee clone, after so many video clips appeared of the reissues.
The Jubilees are really unique circuit-wise (which still I am fascinated by), and apart from classic hard rock tones as far as the EQ curve is concerned, you can dial it in to sound very unique as well with this unusual tone stack behaviour.
They can stay tight, if you use the input gain with care
The OG Wizard MC's lead channel (and also mostly the MC II) basically is a Jubilee's gain channel boosted with a single tube stage for more gain, and a way less effective (meaning: fairly standard) tone stack. It is very tight in a sense of filtering out bass and lower mids before the gain stages, so you'd have a hard time getting it to muddy up. However, to me the Wizard MC clone I built is quite a bit more compressed, thus not as explosive or impactful with chugs, as the Jubilee, when dialing in both to the same amount of perceived gain.
Now with the OG Deliverance 60 clone, the explosiveness is there. You CAN still dial it in to be muddy (turning up gain I to "thick"), but with the two gain knobs you're quite flexible, and you'd always be able to stay tight (in the sense of tight as described above). The explosiveness I tend to trace back mainly to that nfb circuit in the preamp (tightening up bass and lower mids in a rather unusual way), which most of the Fryettes/VHTs have. Maybe this is also something, others would describe as the "dry" or "stiff" feeling, because it's lacking that spongy, bouncy, rubbery, elastic feel for chugs like all the SLO/5150/Recto based amps.
As to Hiwatt-ish-ness of Fryettes and Wizards: I have no experience with classic Hiwatts from the early 70s for example, but in the new Anderton's clip, I can hear some "dryness" in bass and lower mids, but only in the crunch / edge-of breakup area (the classic Hiwatt circuits don't do modern gain levels unboosted). It almost sounds to me as if the distortion and some compression in the highs and upper mids is blend with a rather clean bass and low mid.
Maybe this what many are reminded of when playing a Deliverance or Pittbull using the Deliverance's Less mode or the Pittbull's Normal mode (lower gain).
However, the Wizard MC to me falls more in the modded Marshall vein.
Both have an almost exact same tone stack, as far as the corner frequencies is concerned. But the tone stack in the MC is plate fed, whereas the Fryette one is CF driven plus there is the above mentioned nfb circuit (which feeds back from after the CF to the last gain stage). So you'd always have to take look at the whole picture.
Conclusion:
I like the Deliverance way more than the Wizard MC. And this is mainly because I found that tightness AND explosiveness in the Deliverance, and couldn't in the Wizard. In fact, that Deliverance clone is the best amp I ever had, period.
All of the above mentioned amps I don't consider to be particularly "vintage" sounding, in a sense of 70s or even 60s sound. I'm sure the (Fryette-made) modern Sound City amps, or some classic Hiwatt circuits have a more vintage-y character to them.
On a side note i found the old 90s Laney GH50L/GH100L circuits to be very fat and still tight and also quite explosive for low to midgain sounds (thus not using the extra switchable gain stage). They can be had very cheap on the used market and are built really well.
ultimatemetalguitartones
Well-known member
Couldn't have said it better
Erock
Well-known member
That's pretty interesting. I was going to write you off, "no way this guy built clones that sound close to the real thing", but I'll be darned if that doesn't sound kind of on point after owning those amps. Granted, I had the 100/120 versions, so might take slight issue with the "impactful" chugs a bit, lol. I preferred the grind of the MC as well, but I like both amps. Might explain why I like the Jubilee, fickle as she is!As far as the Fryette vs. Wizard debate I'd like to share my experiences, as well as some with the Marshall Silver Jubilee. I have experience with clones of all of those. Please keep in mind, that I'm going to describe my personal experiences of course, and I built these clones by myself using components that are widely available.
I had an original 1x12 combo in the late 90s, which I unfortunately sold to fund a DSL50 head. Well... can't say this was a mistake, but I always liked and remembered that Jubilee tone, but never liked combos.
Fast forward a few years, after the DSL and some ENGLs, I started building my own amps, which were kind of a marshallized ENGL topology. I got tired or got over this kind of tone, and stumbled across the Friedman Small Box, which I had to built a clone of. This brought me back to a less saturated, still modern (or timeless) tone, and in 2017 I finally decided to build a 50W Jubilee clone, after so many video clips appeared of the reissues.
The Jubilees are really unique circuit-wise (which still I am fascinated by), and apart from classic hard rock tones as far as the EQ curve is concerned, you can dial it in to sound very unique as well with this unusual tone stack behaviour.
They can stay tight, if you use the input gain with care
The OG Wizard MC's lead channel (and also mostly the MC II) basically is a Jubilee's gain channel boosted with a single tube stage for more gain, and a way less effective (meaning: fairly standard) tone stack. It is very tight in a sense of filtering out bass and lower mids before the gain stages, so you'd have a hard time getting it to muddy up. However, to me the Wizard MC clone I built is quite a bit more compressed, thus not as explosive or impactful with chugs, as the Jubilee, when dialing in both to the same amount of perceived gain.
Now with the OG Deliverance 60 clone, the explosiveness is there. You CAN still dial it in to be muddy (turning up gain I to "thick"), but with the two gain knobs you're quite flexible, and you'd always be able to stay tight (in the sense of tight as described above). The explosiveness I tend to trace back mainly to that nfb circuit in the preamp (tightening up bass and lower mids in a rather unusual way), which most of the Fryettes/VHTs have. Maybe this is also something, others would describe as the "dry" or "stiff" feeling, because it's lacking that spongy, bouncy, rubbery, elastic feel for chugs like all the SLO/5150/Recto based amps.
As to Hiwatt-ish-ness of Fryettes and Wizards: I have no experience with classic Hiwatts from the early 70s for example, but in the new Anderton's clip, I can hear some "dryness" in bass and lower mids, but only in the crunch / edge-of breakup area (the classic Hiwatt circuits don't do modern gain levels unboosted). It almost sounds to me as if the distortion and some compression in the highs and upper mids is blend with a rather clean bass and low mid.
Maybe this what many are reminded of when playing a Deliverance or Pittbull using the Deliverance's Less mode or the Pittbull's Normal mode (lower gain).
However, the Wizard MC to me falls more in the modded Marshall vein.
Both have an almost exact same tone stack, as far as the corner frequencies is concerned. But the tone stack in the MC is plate fed, whereas the Fryette one is CF driven plus there is the above mentioned nfb circuit (which feeds back from after the CF to the last gain stage). So you'd always have to take look at the whole picture.
Conclusion:
I like the Deliverance way more than the Wizard MC. And this is mainly because I found that tightness AND explosiveness in the Deliverance, and couldn't in the Wizard. In fact, that Deliverance clone is the best amp I ever had, period.
All of the above mentioned amps I don't consider to be particularly "vintage" sounding, in a sense of 70s or even 60s sound. I'm sure the (Fryette-made) modern Sound City amps, or some classic Hiwatt circuits have a more vintage-y character to them.
On a side note i found the old 90s Laney GH50L/GH100L circuits to be very fat and still tight and also quite explosive for low to midgain sounds (thus not using the extra switchable gain stage). They can be had very cheap on the used market and are built really well.
H
headcrash
New member
You're welcome, I enjoy nerding out on amps and circuits and stuff
I have no idea, what is different in the new Deliverance II or II+ versions circuit-wise, apart from having a loop and some switching options.
I also like the classic 2203/2204 JCM 800 sound. I really like Jon Hudson's sound on Faith No More's 2015 album Sol Invictus. AFAIK this is a JCM 800 boosted with a Boss GE-7. Haven't tried this combination, mostly because I like to have all my gain sounds inside an amp.
I think it lacks that explosiveness, when you dial the gain up.
In fact I modded an old "amp attempt" of mine to be a JCM 800 and Laney GH circuit (without the extra tube stage). Their power amps are exactly the same apart frpm that resonance switch on the Laneys, and cpomponent types. I can toggle switch between these two "modes".
The Laney circuit is quite a bit fatter, than the JCM 800. The Laney lacks that hi mid emphasis of the JCM 800, so it does its wohn thing and does very well. It may work even better with a boost that cuts bass, than the Marshall. For some reason chugs don't really fart in bass with the Laney, at least, until the whole thing gets muddy (but this would not be enough gain for my to play chugs, which is why I prefer the Deliverance).
While in Laney mode I tend to turn up treble and presence, while when in JCM 800 mode it's the opposite. This is what I kinda expected just from looking at the schematics.
I also tried an Orange, think is was one of the Rockerverbs, and totally disliked it. Grainy and muddy distortion. Think it was quite OK for crunch gain levels, but disliked it for chugs. But if your not after this dry chug thing, Orange seems to find many lovers out there.
H
headcrash
New member
That's pretty interesting. I was going to write you off, "no way this guy built clones that sound close to the real thing", but I'll be darned if that doesn't sound kind of on point after owning those amps. Granted, I had the 100/120 versions, so might take slight issue with the "impactful" chugs a bit, lol. I preferred the grind of the MC as well, but I like both amps. Might explain why I like the Jubilee, fickle as she is!
Well, I am German, and don't have access to all these amps. There's not many Fryettes out here, let alone Wizards, and those who have them, stick with them for a reason
Also I have to rely on the correctness of the schematics floating around, of course, and I don't have access to the original components of course. So to be honest, I have no idea, how close I am to an original
This is what I tried to make clear in my first sentence of my post above I enjoy building amps, enjoy exploring the sound of the specific circuits. I have built many circuits into some "test beds" of amps.
I have not played ALL those circuits in a band situation, because I can estimate, if this is something I would like or not. I only did so for the Jubilee, Savage, Deliverance. I took my Soldano SLO clone (50W, 2x EL34) to a few band practices, but it's just not for me (although the clean and crunch channel is one of the best!!). Did so with the Wizard MC clone, even gigged once with it. Actually, since I sold my Jubilee clone to a good friend, I disabled the boosting stage in my Wizard clone to have a Jubilee back in my arsenal
I have known Fryettes since the 90s, but was not aware that this is the sound I have wanted all those years (decades). I (re-)discovered Helmet and Page Hamilton's sounds during the first lockdown period. I had plenty of time, and thought, why not build a Deliverance...
Similar with the Wizard because many good sounding clips of Wizards appeared. I really wanted to like it, but it's not for me. It still is a VERY good sounding amp, from an objective point of view, though.
Smash
Hack
This is all very interesting. But did you ever own a wizard, or just a clone you made? The circuit isnt hard to nail. It is the transformers that give the wizard that crazy punch imoAs far as the Fryette vs. Wizard debate I'd like to share my experiences, as well as some with the Marshall Silver Jubilee. I have experience with clones of all of those. Please keep in mind, that I'm going to describe my personal experiences of course, and I built these clones by myself using components that are widely available.
I had an original 1x12 combo in the late 90s, which I unfortunately sold to fund a DSL50 head. Well... can't say this was a mistake, but I always liked and remembered that Jubilee tone, but never liked combos.
Fast forward a few years, after the DSL and some ENGLs, I started building my own amps, which were kind of a marshallized ENGL topology. I got tired or got over this kind of tone, and stumbled across the Friedman Small Box, which I had to built a clone of. This brought me back to a less saturated, still modern (or timeless) tone, and in 2017 I finally decided to build a 50W Jubilee clone, after so many video clips appeared of the reissues.
The Jubilees are really unique circuit-wise (which still I am fascinated by), and apart from classic hard rock tones as far as the EQ curve is concerned, you can dial it in to sound very unique as well with this unusual tone stack behaviour.
They can stay tight, if you use the input gain with care
The OG Wizard MC's lead channel (and also mostly the MC II) basically is a Jubilee's gain channel boosted with a single tube stage for more gain, and a way less effective (meaning: fairly standard) tone stack. It is very tight in a sense of filtering out bass and lower mids before the gain stages, so you'd have a hard time getting it to muddy up. However, to me the Wizard MC clone I built is quite a bit more compressed, thus not as explosive or impactful with chugs, as the Jubilee, when dialing in both to the same amount of perceived gain.
Now with the OG Deliverance 60 clone, the explosiveness is there. You CAN still dial it in to be muddy (turning up gain I to "thick"), but with the two gain knobs you're quite flexible, and you'd always be able to stay tight (in the sense of tight as described above). The explosiveness I tend to trace back mainly to that nfb circuit in the preamp (tightening up bass and lower mids in a rather unusual way), which most of the Fryettes/VHTs have. Maybe this is also something, others would describe as the "dry" or "stiff" feeling, because it's lacking that spongy, bouncy, rubbery, elastic feel for chugs like all the SLO/5150/Recto based amps.
As to Hiwatt-ish-ness of Fryettes and Wizards: I have no experience with classic Hiwatts from the early 70s for example, but in the new Anderton's clip, I can hear some "dryness" in bass and lower mids, but only in the crunch / edge-of breakup area (the classic Hiwatt circuits don't do modern gain levels unboosted). It almost sounds to me as if the distortion and some compression in the highs and upper mids is blend with a rather clean bass and low mid.
Maybe this what many are reminded of when playing a Deliverance or Pittbull using the Deliverance's Less mode or the Pittbull's Normal mode (lower gain).
However, the Wizard MC to me falls more in the modded Marshall vein.
Both have an almost exact same tone stack, as far as the corner frequencies is concerned. But the tone stack in the MC is plate fed, whereas the Fryette one is CF driven plus there is the above mentioned nfb circuit (which feeds back from after the CF to the last gain stage). So you'd always have to take look at the whole picture.
Conclusion:
I like the Deliverance way more than the Wizard MC. And this is mainly because I found that tightness AND explosiveness in the Deliverance, and couldn't in the Wizard. In fact, that Deliverance clone is the best amp I ever had, period.
All of the above mentioned amps I don't consider to be particularly "vintage" sounding, in a sense of 70s or even 60s sound. I'm sure the (Fryette-made) modern Sound City amps, or some classic Hiwatt circuits have a more vintage-y character to them.
On a side note i found the old 90s Laney GH50L/GH100L circuits to be very fat and still tight and also quite explosive for low to midgain sounds (thus not using the extra switchable gain stage). They can be had very cheap on the used market and are built really well.
H
headcrash
New member
Hey Smash, like I mentioned in my previous post, I've not yet had access to ANY of the "real things"
In my opinion the impact of transformers is a bit overestimated, at least for a certain sound pressure level range. They might make a difference in certain circumstances and or conditions. But I don't think they are responsible for the main aspects of a guitar amplifier tone, unless there's obvious design flaws or they're chosen wrong for the purpose (same with capacitors).
Also we have to ask ourselves, how we can perceive such differences in tone. Human hearing memory is really short (like seconds short), so exchanging a set of transformers simply takes too long to be able to perceive those rather small differences, that might or might not be the result. And comparing two same units will always incorporate the tolerances of every other component in the signal path.
I can imagine that Rick choses transformers with higher ratings than what is actually needed (in case of the OT), and/or PT's with a lower internal resistance/impedance, which to my understanding enables a faster transient "power delivery" to the power supply (...which is kinda made up for by large enough low ESR power supply caps). All this can contribute to the amp staying cleaner under higher volume, and letting transients of your playing be translated more accurately.
Smash
Hack
The tone isnt what makes a wizard unique. There are many amps woth great/good/bad tone. Tone is subjective, and some like the wizard tone, some dont. No big deal. I actually love the fryette ultralead tone better than any wizard offering.Hey Smash, like I mentioned in my previous post, I've not yet had access to ANY of the "real things"
In my opinion the impact of transformers is a bit overestimated, at least for a certain sound pressure level range. They might make a difference in certain circumstances and or conditions. But I don't think they are responsible for the main aspects of a guitar amplifier tone, unless there's obvious design flaws or they're chosen wrong for the purpose (same with capacitors).
Also we have to ask ourselves, how we can perceive such differences in tone. Human hearing memory is really short (like seconds short), so exchanging a set of transformers simply takes too long to be able to perceive those rather small differences, that might or might not be the result. And comparing two same units will always incorporate the tolerances of every other component in the signal path.
I can imagine that Rick choses transformers with higher ratings than what is actually needed (in case of the OT), and/or PT's with a lower internal resistance/impedance, which to my understanding enables a faster transient "power delivery" to the power supply (...which is kinda made up for by large enough low ESR power supply caps). All this can contribute to the amp staying cleaner under higher volume, and letting transients of your playing be translated more accurate
Most amps do not punch like a wizard. I thing the bogner uber ultra and ground zero hellion may punch that hard.
My only concern was did the punch get translated to your circuit? As you havent played one, it is impossible to tell. Most attribute the transformers he uses as being responsible
Z
Zmo87
New member
I can't specifically speak to the circuits in question, but anecdotally I know that the whole "big iron thing" I feel may be over blown as well. I have two Ceriatones; one is a sunny model t clone (150 watt, 6550's and very large pt/ot and probably the heaviest head ive ever had to move) the other a Marshall superbass clone, also large pt/or, but el34 and 50 less watts. The superbass blows the model out of the water in terms of volume and punch. I've watched several videos recently where someone switched almost every variable out of an amp circuit and it made little to no tone difference. As Stephen fryette has said in interviews it seems to be the entire circuit interacting with itself that makes the whole picture rather than the individual parts as much.
H
headcrash
New member
Well, all I can do is compare the clones I built using schematics, that I am kinda "forced" to believe are correct
And I try using components I think will contribute to the character of the specific circuit, as far as it's possible to do so for me.I think the punch-thing did translate to "my" circuits, of course! So to ME and MY perception, the Deliverance was or felt "better" here than the Wizard. But I cannot say, if a real Fryette would do the same for me compared to a real Wizard; it may well be the other way round, for whatever reason.
The punch/explosiveness thing also is more a matter of "feel", less "tone" in a sense of EQ curve and harmonic structure, for example. But I think it can still be traced back mostly to certain specialties of the circuits.
Smash
Hack
You could be right. I have played a deliverance and ultra lead and many wizards. If the ultra lead had the feel of a wizard, it would damn near be the perfect amp. The deliverance was forgettable both in tone and feel. This is why I think the feel didnt translate in your circuits, unless you just prefer less punch.
But, if you are ever in texas, hit me up and you can play both and see how close you were
H
headcrash
New member
Yeah would be cool to compare, of course. However, I'm afraid chances are not that high me being in Texas in the near future... I'm in Germany But thanks for the invitation !!
I am surprised, that you didn't like the Deli as much as the UL. Circuit-wise they share a very similar topology (apart from the graphic EQ), at least one of the UL channels, forgot which one.
The UL has more bells and whistles to control the sound, which are there circuit-wise in the Deli, but simply in a fixed state, thus not switchable, like the "Edge" feature of the UL, which is always on and also altered in the Deli for Less and More modes and on slightly different corner frequencies than in the UL , Boost I think corresponds to gain II in the Deli. But the Deli (120) to my understanding was meant to be a streamlined one channel UL, which makes sense to me looking at the schematics I have (assuming they are correct). But again, I have never played neither one.
Thomann Germany now stocks the Deli 120 II+...
But thanks for the invitation !!I am surprised, that you didn't like the Deli as much as the UL. Circuit-wise they share a very similar topology (apart from the graphic EQ), at least one of the UL channels, forgot which one.
The UL has more bells and whistles to control the sound, which are there circuit-wise in the Deli, but simply in a fixed state, thus not switchable, like the "Edge" feature of the UL, which is always on and also altered in the Deli for Less and More modes and on slightly different corner frequencies than in the UL , Boost I think corresponds to gain II in the Deli. But the Deli (120) to my understanding was meant to be a streamlined one channel UL, which makes sense to me looking at the schematics I have (assuming they are correct). But again, I have never played neither one.
Thomann Germany now stocks the Deli 120 II+...