Greenback 20/25 VS Creamback 65

[Scumback Speakers]

Hey Jim, have you tried out the Lynchbacks yet? If so, what's your opinion?

Nope, I would if they made them in 16 ohms, but they don't...or won't. Not sure what the story with that is. Tone Merchants / Friedman wanted them to, but Celestion said no. No idea why.

I do know that TM tried the Creambacks, sent them back, and got 20 M75/H75's from me about two months back instead. Rob & Dave said "the mids were sucked out of them"...or at least that's what Rob told me when he picked up the 20 M/H's.

I've read wildly different reviews of the Creambacks. Some people love them, my thoughts were "meh", they recreated a speaker that wasn't worth recreating. Of course the other possibility is that there's a lot of variables, and QC issues with this relatively new speaker. I know they had that going on with the Heritages when they first came out in 2005 as well, and they had to make changes to that speaker line, too.

So who knows...like I said...different strokes. I know I didn't care for their tone, and I've had many others tell me the same thing. bushkey came over to the demo room and he tried the originals from 1974 in a 4x12 I had here, plus we both had the Creamback reissues and we're confused as to why some love them and we didn't.

Like I said, go figure. Apparently they sound good in my 2x12 cabs to some (Jim B for example), but I didn't like them. Maybe he has a magic setting or opening of the adjustable back panel on my cab I don't know about!

 

[thiswaythatway]

I'm with Giga. I know exactly what he is talking about, and my Creambacks were not out of phase either. I sold mine too. Fortunately, there are a lot of guys who love this speaker, and mine sold quickly. I much prefer my Scumbacks over the Creambacks.
Creamback=thin tight low end.
greenback=looser squashier low end, but more musical to my ears. I'm a fan of the Heritage green. I don't care for the ratty high end of the re-issues.
I wanted the Creambacks in hopes that they were the answer to the greenback problem. Greenbacks are great, but the low end farted out on me too much when pushed hard. Yes the Creambacks low end is a LOT tighter, but something just wasn't right for me. I bought and tried the Creambacks twice, and I just couldnt get into them. To each there own.....
I'm also a huge fan of the Lynchbacks. Still wanting 16ohm LB's too! but I use two 8's in-series, and they kill in my Kerry Wright Diagonal 2x12!

~my 2 cents for the day.~

I tried Creambacks and there's nothing thin sounding about them, although my amp does dish out a ton of low end, but if anything the Creambacks are a little bit too dark for me. If the Lynchbacks are darker I won't bother with them. I gotta say I've tried a bunch of these M style speakers and I still think well broken in V30's are better for hard rock and metal. My friend has a Bogner 4x12 loaded with V30's and the thing sounds incredible. I liked it better than an old basketweave Marshall I had with very old Greenbacks. Maybe if I were playing Led Zep tunes all day I'd go old Greenbacks, but most everything this side of 1990 I'd go V30's.

 

[Scumback Speakers]

I tried Creambacks and there's nothing thin sounding about them, although my amp does dish out a ton of low end, but if anything the Creambacks are a little bit too dark for me.

I think this is exactly what I'm talking about with a QC problem. I found them thin, lacking bottom, and just not what I expected in a high powered Greenback. Yet you found them almost too dark, and didn't think they were thin.

There are two very different thoughts on these online, maybe it varies depending on your experience and preferences with speakers. Since almost my entire speaker line is based on old Celestions from 1964-1980, I've got a pretty good idea of what they sound like, or "should sound like". The Creamback just doesn't fit in there for me, but does for others.

LIke I said...go figure.

 

[bushkey]

I'm with Giga. I know exactly what he is talking about, and my Creambacks were not out of phase either. I sold mine too. Fortunately, there are a lot of guys who love this speaker, and mine sold quickly. I much prefer my Scumbacks over the Creambacks.
Creamback=thin tight low end.
greenback=looser squashier low end, but more musical to my ears. I'm a fan of the Heritage green. I don't care for the ratty high end of the re-issues.
I wanted the Creambacks in hopes that they were the answer to the greenback problem. Greenbacks are great, but the low end farted out on me too much when pushed hard. Yes the Creambacks low end is a LOT tighter, but something just wasn't right for me. I bought and tried the Creambacks twice, and I just couldnt get into them. To each there own.....
I'm also a huge fan of the Lynchbacks. Still wanting 16ohm LB's too! but I use two 8's in-series, and they kill in my Kerry Wright Diagonal 2x12!

~my 2 cents for the day.~

I tried Creambacks and there's nothing thin sounding about them, although my amp does dish out a ton of low end, but if anything the Creambacks are a little bit too dark for me. If the Lynchbacks are darker I won't bother with them. I gotta say I've tried a bunch of these M style speakers and I still think well broken in V30's are better for hard rock and metal. My friend has a Bogner 4x12 loaded with V30's and the thing sounds incredible. I liked it better than an old basketweave Marshall I had with very old Greenbacks. Maybe if I were playing Led Zep tunes all day I'd go old Greenbacks, but most everything this side of 1990 I'd go V30's.

If anything, this has been a good thread to reinforce that there are too many factors to call out black & white. There is a common underlining thread I see in all the responses. Everything you just said sums it all up. It all depends on your amp, cab and style of music you want. I agree if you want metal, not too much beats a 4x12 Bogner with well broken in V30's. Bogner cabs are very tight and a bit darker. Where as a Marshall style cab is looser and more lively. If I play a Diezel amp, I'm not using greenbacks. If I'm playing more classic rock/hard rock, I love GB style speakers. If you use a Marshall style amp that doesn't have a lot of thump to begin with, the CB's may sound thin. If you crank an amp that has a lot of low end, the CB's might be money. There is so many factors on what speaker is the right speaker. For me, with my gear, The CB's have tight thin low end with a mids shift. With some one else's rig and musical taste, the CB is probably really great. At the end of the day, tone is subjective, and everyone has an opinion. Makes the world a more interesting place.
Oh ya, with my gear, I don't think of a Lynchback as a dark speaker. not as dark as a G12-65, but maybe a hair darker then the G12M. But works great with brighter amps like Marshallesque style amps. I did like the CB and lynchback mixed in a 2x12, that was cool.

 

[EyesOfTheSouth]

I'm gonna chance my stance a bit on the CB.

I have a total of 6 of them. Four 8 ohmers and a pair of 16 ohmers (all bought new). I was having an issue with the sound of one of my cabs so I decided to do a little test. I ended up trying all of them in various configs today and discovered that there is a large variation between them.

I have 2 of them that sound fantastic (both 8 ohm). The pair of 16 ohm ones sound good as well......just a hair less focused (maybe due to the ohm difference). However.......of the remaining two 8 ohmers, one of them sounds "OK" and the other sounds like complete shit. It is very muddy and reminds me of a speaker with a locked up cone.

The "shitty" one also looks different. The dustcap is much darker/thicker and appears to be made of a different material. This one also has more cone movement when i gently move it with my hand. There is also variations between the doping and adhesives among all 6.

I'm also noticing different stamps on the cone. They all have "11914" on them. However, the two 8 ohm ones that sound awesome have letters before the number. I would give the exact code......but these are the ones that ended up in my cab and i dont want to remove another back panel today!!! The remaining 4 have no letters.....only additional numbers after the "11914". I did order 2 of them from the UK before they were available here, but I don't remember which ones they were.

Oh yeah, one of the 8 ohmers was missing a rivet on the terminal plate when I opened it up. I had to super glue the plate to keep it from flopping around.

All this variation may help explain why people are giving conflicting reviews.

 

[bushkey]

I'm gonna chance my stance a bit on the CB.

I have a total of 6 of them. Four 8 ohmers and a pair of 16 ohmers (all bought new). I was having an issue with the sound of one of my cabs so I decided to do a little test. I ended up trying all of them in various configs today and discovered that there is a large variation between them.

I have 2 of them that sound fantastic (both 8 ohm). The pair of 16 ohm ones sound good as well......just a hair less focused (maybe due to the ohm difference). However.......of the remaining two 8 ohmers, one of them sounds "OK" and the other sounds like complete shit. It is very muddy and reminds me of a speaker with a locked up cone.

The "shitty" one also looks different. The voice coil is much darker/thicker and appears to be made of a different material. This one also has more cone movement when i gently move it with my hand. There is also slight variations between the doping and adhesives among all 6.

I'm also noticing different stamps on the cone. They all have "11914" on them. However, the two 8 ohm ones that sound awesome have letters before the number. I would give the exact code......but these are the ones that ended up in my cab and i dont want to remove another back panel today!!! The remaining 4 have no letters.....only additional numbers after the "11914". I did order 2 of them from the UK before they were available here, but I don't remember which ones they were.

Oh yeah, one of the 8 ohmers was missing a rivet on the terminal plate when I opened it up. I had to super glue the plate to keep it from flopping around.

All this variation may help explain why people are giving conflicting reviews.

Thank you for this! This is a very good contribution to the Creamback threads. Jim Seavall could be right about the QC! Very interesting. I know Rick from Celestion will read this, and maybe he can enlighten us a bit on this subject.

 

[EyesOfTheSouth]

I edited my last post......I meant dustcap, not voice coil. I just took another look at them and the "bad" one also has a very glossy adhesive. All the others have a flat/matte adhesive.

I'll put up some pics of all this stuff when I get the chance.

 

[EyesOfTheSouth]

OK..........here is a couple pics showing the differences in the great sounding speaker and the bad sounding speaker.

The first one is the good one and has a couple of letters follwed only by "11914" on the cone. It has the more transparent/thinner dust cap (different material???). It also has the flat/matte adhesive.

The second speaker sounds really bad and has the code "11914-0611"..........no letters beforehand. The dust cap looks thicker and darker. The adhesive is really shiny/glossy. This speaker has more cone movement compared to the "good" one.

All this probably means nothing, but I can assure you the 2 speakers sound worlds apart.

Without Flash



With Flash



Side by Side

 

[Scumback Speakers]

Huh, that is a big difference. Were all of these speakers purchased new?

 

[EyesOfTheSouth]

Huh, that is a big difference. Were all of these speakers purchased new?

Yes......all brand new out of original boxes.

 

[K-mark5]

a friend of mine just finished working on his first seldmade cab.. it's a 2X12 and he put there a pair of creamback 75 speakers.. here's a short demo of how it sounds (2 layers) think it's an ibanez RG470 with painkiller/cold sweat combo into the mk4 channel of boogie mark5 and the 2X12. No post processingm, nothing just a good old sennheiser e906

he told me he had to keep the bass reaaaaally down on the GEQ faders, but it's nothing you can really fine tune and I guess it's quite good sounding


https://soundcloud.com/brandon-kociov/m ... 2x12-cab-w

 

[Dave K]

I wonder what's up with the QC at Celestion. Taking lessons from Gibson perhaps !?
It would be nice if they perfected and standardized the design before selling them. Too much to ask these days !!??

 

[Scumback Speakers]

Huh, that is a big difference. Were all of these speakers purchased new?

Yes......all brand new out of original boxes.

Well, that's interesting they were new, and not consistent...but why the hell isn't this build standardized before going to market? At least it explains why I didn't think much of the ones I heard here. But if you have to buy 6 to get four good ones, that's not optimal for the client.

 

[the4thlast1]

Yeah thats some sh*t ... Maybe we can get someone from Celestion in here to talk about what the deal is with those speakers..All bought new, same model, yet they look and sound different.

 

[Dave K]

I'm meeting with Rick Skillman from Celestion on Wednesday and I'll be sure to ask WTF is up with the variations in the Creambacks !!

 

[thiswaythatway]

OK..........here is a couple pics showing the differences in the great sounding speaker and the bad sounding speaker.

The first one is the good one and has a couple of letters follwed only by "11914" on the cone. It has the more transparent/thinner dust cap (different material???). It also has the flat/matte adhesive.

The second speaker sounds really bad and has the code "11914-0611"..........no letters beforehand. The dust cap looks thicker and darker. The adhesive is really shiny/glossy. This speaker has more cone movement compared to the "good" one.

All this probably means nothing, but I can assure you the 2 speakers sound worlds apart.

Without Flash



With Flash



Side by Side

The 2 I have say N03 11914 on them and they have the lighter colored material on them. Oh yeah, they're for sale.

 

[Scumback Speakers]

I'm meeting with Rick Skillman from Celestion on Wednesday and I'll be sure to ask WTF is up with the variations in the Creambacks !!

I wouldn't bag on Rick too hard. He's not in control of production, and I'm sure he'll have to research this before giving you an answer.

 

[blackba]

Huh, that is a big difference. Were all of these speakers purchased new?

Yes......all brand new out of original boxes.

Have you contacted Celestion yet? Rick posts over at TGP.

 

[thiswaythatway]

Huh, that is a big difference. Were all of these speakers purchased new?

Yes......all brand new out of original boxes.

Have you contacted Celestion yet? Rick posts over at TGP.

This thread has been linked over there. Well see if he responds.

 

[Scumback Speakers]

This thread has been linked over there. Well see if he responds.

I already called him about it. Contrary to some beliefs on the internet, Rick and I are friends. I bought for G12-65's from him before he became the Celestion rep. He only found out about my experience with Celestions AFTER he became the Western US rep.

It's a small world.

In any case, I called him and told him about the RT thread, and said to call me.

I'm sure of you are thinking "WTF? Jim is in contact with Celestion?"

I've had a long standing relationship with them since 1999. It's not new news, it's just not often publicized news.

Here's hoping they can figure this out.