Heaviest Uberschall revision

[braintheory]

Yes, and no. For me, it's about the quality/richness/3D-ness of the tone, not so much about tightness and other aspects. Going from a Rev G dual to ANY previous iteration, F to C, the tone is clearly better with the earlier revision. The Gs I had were sterile and had NO feel whatsoever. G Triples were a bit better but still way short in comparison to the F Triples I had. Then, going even further with the Rev C, the fast tracking and almost C+ level feel, those are things the F had some of, but the C was a revelation. When I think of the C I had, vs the G early serial Duals the C was almost unrelated to those Gs. Night and day difference.
Maybe there are some Gs that sound closer, but for me that wasn't the case. Same with the 2 Mark IIIs I had, harsh mids/highs with no feel; vs the C+ that is a very pleasing amp to play without harshness, and incredible feel.

This. The desirability of some older version amps being better just comes from a place of having the different versions and much of the time also comparing them directly to confirm. With some brands like Naylor, Wizard and Alessandro older is not better IME thankfully and the market value happens to also reflect that I think for good reason

IME the Rev 1 Uber, Rev C Recto, IIC/C+, Blueface VH4 and even the '80's SLO I had (to a much smaller extent though) all were more 3D sounding and feeling than the later versions I've compared with. Instead of saying 3D, I like to say also just more alive like you feel part of the instrument a connection where when you compare to other versions there's a disconnect where they feel kinda dead/sterile in comparison. Any truly special piece of gear I've played in any category has that sort of connection (speakers, pickups, pedals, guitars, etc). It's their "it" factor of why guys chase the good stuff

I understand some versions may not be one's cup of tea because it's either too bright/harsh, too dark/muddy/loose, whatever it is, but for me at least if I can detect a high enough overall level of tone and feel in any way I'm gonna want it bad lol whatever gear piece it is

 

[Bram576]

I want to believe. And one day we will get together and a/b some amps and see if you can get me to recognize it. I am excited as hell. Although, I hope it doesn't ruin a bunch of amps for me

I honestly think we like what we like. Some of us know who we have similar taste to here after enough time chatting. I disagree largely with the talk on the ultra here.

 

[NewWorldMan]

Y’all are gonna have to educate me on what cardboard sounds like

Makes me think of the James Brown interview when he said they were designing the 5150, he thought all was well until EVH called one saying “it sounds like cardboard” with James telling him “I don’t know what cardboard sounds like, but I’ll try to get that shit out of there…”

 

[NewWorldMan]

I honestly think we like what we like. Some of us know who we have similar taste to here after enough time chatting. I disagree largely with the talk on the ultra here.

This. The UU wasn’t my cup of tea. Maybe I’ll try again one day. I preferred Rev 1/2, but that seems par for the course for me as I’m a bigger F/G Recto fan and view those in the same camp.

 

[Bram576]

Y’all are gonna have to educate me on what cardboard sounds like

Makes me think of the James Brown interview when he said they were designing the 5150, he thought all was well until EVH called one saying “it sounds like cardboard” with James telling him “I don’t know what cardboard sounds like, but I’ll try to get that shit out of there…”

To me it’s nasally mids. 500-1k hz.

 

[braintheory]

To me it’s nasally mids. 500-1k hz.

The mark series though are super nasally there with the GEQ turned off, not great, but no cardboard-y or filtered sound to be had (at least with the vintage mark amps like the 3's and 2's). I'm not a technical guy at all, but feel it's more just an overall lack of richness or warmth to the sound giving that affect that I and some others don't like. Maybe a lack of some overtones, not sure

If you play many vintage '60's Vox AC30 Top Boosts at volume when they overdrive they also can be really nasally in that region, but have the warmth and richness you'd expect a good vintage amp to have. Again no filtered or cardboard-y sound. I've only heard it in relatively recent made amps or some heavily modded Marshall's (that I hate)

 

[braintheory]

Y’all are gonna have to educate me on what cardboard sounds like

Makes me think of the James Brown interview when he said they were designing the 5150, he thought all was well until EVH called one saying “it sounds like cardboard” with James telling him “I don’t know what cardboard sounds like, but I’ll try to get that shit out of there…”

It's a timbre and admittedly maybe a stretch with that one. The only way I know how to explain would be examples like:

Metallic: the sound of a harpsichord, clavichord, triangle or if you literally tap a hollow piece of metal and listen to the sound (anything reminiscent of that). Or a resonator guitar or acoustically play an electric guitar made out of all metal like the EGC's or Ogre's (sorta sounds like a metal garbage can, but in a great way lol)

Woody: rich, warm sound like an old '20/'30's Martin acoustic guitar, especially with mahogany, a '50's Fender Tweed amp, most guitars in general that are over 100 years old

Glassy: Fender blackface cleans

Plastic-y: again tap a piece of plastic, play acoustically an Aristides guitar, the EVH 5153 series of amps

Cardboard: tap a piece of cardboard and listen to the tone (anything reminiscent of that), Uber Ultra, Omega Obsidian, Driftwood Purplenightmare. Basically to me sort of like woody with all the richness and warmth taken out of the sound, which is why I find it usually also goes along with descriptors like filtered, sterile, clinical, or lacking life

 

[Bram576]

The mark series though are super nasally there with the GEQ turned off, not great, but no cardboard-y or filtered sound to be had (at least with the vintage mark amps like the 3's and 2's). I'm not a technical guy at all, but feel it's more just an overall lack of richness or warmth to the sound giving that affect that I and some others don't like. Maybe a lack of some overtones, not sure

If you play many vintage '60's Vox AC30 Top Boosts at volume when they overdrive they also can be really nasally in that region, but have the warmth and richness you'd expect a good vintage amp to have. Again no filtered or cardboard-y sound. I've only heard it in relatively recent made amps or some heavily modded Marshall's (that I hate)

Yeah, I mean cardboard boxy is a term that’s been used in mixing for a long time. Refers to that range.

 

[braintheory]

Yeah, I mean cardboard boxy is a term that’s been used in mixing for a long time. Refers to that range.

Boxy I definitely have heard often and used it myself for describing that range of sound. Cardboardy I borrowed from the classical guitar world as a descriptor often used for when a guitar lacks tonal complexity or overtones in its sound, often used also in that world to describe the tap tone of maple being similar to cardboard sometimes vs good pieces of rosewood

 

[Shask]

To me it’s nasally mids. 500-1k hz.

I was gonna say too much 400hz - 500hz.

 

[glpg80]

Presence doesn’t remove cardboardlike sterility.

Totally putting a cardboard switch in my amp. Damp, soggy, stiff

 

[NewWorldMan]

Cardboard: tap a piece of cardboard and listen to the tone (anything reminiscent of that), Uber Ultra, Omega Obsidian, Driftwood Purplenightmare. Basically to me sort of like woody with all the richness and warmth taken out of the sound, which is why I find it usually also goes along with descriptors like filtered, sterile, clinical, or lacking life

Ah, I usually just call that flat or lifeless. I do think there’s a lot of modern amps and mods that sacrifice depth and character for the sake of making something tight.

…but, us players as a whole are probably partly to blame for that. I think there’s a whole segment of players out there that have used sims and IRs for so long that they expect a tube amp to sound like a modeler.

 

[braintheory]

Ah, I usually just call that flat or lifeless. I do think there’s a lot of modern amps and mods that sacrifice depth and character for the sake of making something tight.

…but, us players as a whole are probably partly to blame for that. I think there’s a whole segment of players out there that have used sims and IRs for so long that they expect a tube amp to sound like a modeler.

I do consider them flat or lifeless, but don’t think it’s about tightness as some of these cardboard-y amps (and some modded Marshall’s I didn’t like) aren’t even that tight and the Ultra always sounded really cardboardy to me even with the loosest, sludgiest settings I tried. Just an inherent timbre to that amp I found. Actually the tightest sounding amps I’ve tried so far did not at all sound lifeless or flat to me or cardboardy (Hermansson’s, Larry Dino, Wizards Hell Razor). I recognize some of those amps have other qualities some may not care for, but at least not lifeless, flat or cardboard-y, if anything quite the opposite to me

This could be. I don’t have a ton of experience playing modelers (haven’t tried sims or IR’s, not my thing), but I can see the Ultra, Obsidian, KSR, Revv and Driftwood amps as some examples having a sound more in that direction and a few other amps I won’t name out of respect lol. I remember last time I played an Engl Savage at a store (14 years ago now damn) my dad was there and said the amp sounds like a modeler, very synthetic. Can’t say I disagreed with him

 

[braintheory]

Ah, I usually just call that flat or lifeless. I do think there’s a lot of modern amps and mods that sacrifice depth and character for the sake of making something tight.

…but, us players as a whole are probably partly to blame for that. I think there’s a whole segment of players out there that have used sims and IRs for so long that they expect a tube amp to sound like a modeler.

To add to it too, I’d say tap a piece of cardboardy then tap a piece of a good tonewood and like you said the cardboard has a very flat, lifeless sound that doesn’t ring, while the good tone wood will have an opposite type of tap tone. Maybe that’s a tgp-ish explanation lol, but it applies IME to stuff like the ultra vs Rev 1 Uber I had to make it not tgp-ish haha

 

[Jccobb2]

Adding one more thing that is slightly off Uberschall topic, but I think an Ecstasy 101b gets heavier than the Uber Ultra. With the bright switches you can get it very tight, modern and cutting. Then there is the Pandora version which can get even tighter.

Here is the XTC 101b in a mix straight in the amp:

Still the best bogner ever made.

 

[BrutalRob]

to those that played an UU. How does it behave in the high end? Aggressive with some sizzle? Crisp/edgy high end? or rather smooth?

 

[baron55]

to those that played an UU. How does it behave in the high end? Aggressive with some sizzle? Crisp/edgy high end? or rather smooth?

You can dial in all the above.

 

[zewango]

Did I gig with UU it was definitely not sterile and lifeless. Did a great job with Maiden better than the JEL 20

 

[Bram576]

to those that played an UU. How does it behave in the high end? Aggressive with some sizzle? Crisp/edgy high end? or rather smooth?

Yeah, it really can do all. The power amp controls really trip people up. The three presence knobs shift the frequency. Then the depth is 100 hz bump… crank for older uber sounds, density is a negative feedback knob… which for the older uber sound you would crank all the way. I always see comments it doesn’t sound like the old, but then the density knob is almost off or at noon. Density knob as you add more negative feedback you also need more Volume.

 

[savant421]

I have an early Uber (serial #045, Rev Green maybe? I dunno) that I loaded with GT 6CA7s and it's a bad mofo. Not very versatile but jeebus it slays. Never experienced an UU, morbidly curious about them but have zero desire to unload my Uber