T
TCC
New member
Hello all,
This will be my first and probably last post to this forum. I have been lurking and reading here for years. I am more of a talker than typer so I usually never post on boards. I have enjoyed the banter here and have learned many things..thank you all for the info and opinions.
I felt compelled to voice my opinion and observations on this forum at what I feel is a crucial point in history for the Egnater company and for me as a former client/user of their products.
A bit of background: I am a 40 year old who has been playing for thirty years, 25 as a professional. I play 4 other instruments and currently own a large marketing company. I have owned two large recording/production studios in the last 20 years.
I have played on many national jingles, two sessions on platinum records and have played a countless amount of live gigs (whether in front of 20 or 20,000 people. I have co owned two clubs in a very large resort in the US. I currently am lucky enough to play four times a week in front of 400 a night in a large resort area in US (not gonna say which) as well as specialty gigs 3 or 4 times a year in front of 15,000 + people. I say all this only to give some perspective on my experience and how lucky I have been to play and be around the business this long. My family has been in the manufacturing/retail business at home and abroad for over 94 years.
I, like many of you have owned everything in terms of amps and between me and the people I'm fortunate enough to be friends with I have either used or gotten to try damn near every amp I have ever heard of over the years.
Having said that I just liquidated over $30,000 in Egnater gear. I have owned nearly everything he's ever made ....the list:
2 M4 preamps (dual channel)
1 original M4 (single channel)
2 Egnater IE4's
22 modules
2 MOD 100's
2 MOD 50's
2 MICA TOL 100's
2 Rocktron TOL 50's
2 Rocktron TOL 100's
Please note: I am not an instrument retailer nor have I ever been....I am a musician....all of the gear I just listed I bought to play thru.
I would now like to hopefully make a few simple points ( I do not want to slam Bruce or Ian or the company in any way...please take it for what it is ....one persons point of view)
I initially started using Egnater amps once I heard a MICA 100. I thought the tone was great and I liked his approach to the amp, midi, voicing switches etc. A long time ago I stopped using "mass" produced amps.(I played everything a kid could coming up, from the cheapest on up but got to a point where I could afford a little higher end amp) Anyway, mass production amps, I thought they usually lacked in quality and consistency. I always looked for a company who was very attentive to service and was easy to get a hold of and would listen to my needs. Amps are like race cars...they are tools and they need to RUN...when they don't there needs to be a great infrastructure to get them repaired. Gone are the days when there were only two or three major amps and alot of guys could repair them. I have worked with Mesa, Soldano, Matchless, and other companies like them because they were more or less custom shops and I had a direct line to the owner OR the guy who built my amp. Sometimes these companies got too big or changed the product line. Anyway, back to Egnater
I really enjoyed using the MICA series and thought the Rocktron ones were a good lower cost version( I have nothing against a lower line of anything). Where I really fell in love was when Bruce came out with the Modular line. Like I'm sure with many of you, this really appealed to my way of thinking and made so much sense and Bruce has incredible ears.... I NEED that much versatility. I have to go from drop C King's X to Simon and Garfunkle and everything in between (you know what I mean). I was never a fan of vintage gear. I love the tones but just hate the lack of road worthiness and versatility. I need those all those sounds but I want modern engineering. Just for the record Bruce, I think the modular line was the most innovative amp invention in the last 25 years. It allowed me to scale my rig when I wanted from 1x12 to 3 full stacks depending on the gig. My M4 rigs went from the heaviest to the lightest sounds with ease and I was daily getting compliments on my tone. You were a small, American company with a small, very loyal group of customers that thought your stuff was fantastic.
Then things changed,
Coming from a family that has been in large scale manufacturing/retail for almost 100 years I can say that the biggest thing we've lost as a country in the last 30 years is SERVICE.
I can't say I blame Bruce for wanting to go big. Many, many businesses over the years have lost their way in an effort to increase market share. I have seen many operators really lose in the long run as they went for larger numbers and lost their core following OR mass marketed a product only to fail at servicing it.
Let me say I can understand why Bruce would want to have a company like Guitar Center or Walmart selling thousands of his product...WHO WOULDN'T WANT THAT? I don't "blame" him in the slightest.
It is my understanding that there wasn't really that much money in making the MOD and M4 product line by hand. I can relate to them wanting to have a lower end, more affordable line of amps. We all know that there is no way to approach those price points anymore without manufacturing oversees..that's fine. It IS possible to manufacture very high quality in Korea or China with good quality control....is is a matter of EFFORT and money. My family has electronics manufactured over seas and I can tell you that you can surpass our quality levels depending on how you approach it.
My point is this: Egnater did two things that I think were mistakes and may harm them in the long run.
1. The quality of the overseas stuff is low. I have had no less than 6 different pro players I know try either a Renegade or Rebel only to return them for reliability or function issues. (this isn't kids here folks, I'm talking working pro's)
Not that there's anything wrong with that but a first impression in the amp world will stay with you for a long time. Even the guys I know that work at Guitar Center are not pushing those amps.
Just an observation....I doesn't really affect me in that I don't use those amps...how it does affect me is this...Egnater has effectively killed their modular line BECAUSE of the cheaper overseas stuff.
You guys know what I mean..there are dozens of posts on this forum about service....let's face it, a fair share of the posts nowadays are about problems with that line or not being able to get a response from the company.
2. The over seas line has terminated the Modular line in terms of replacement components and service.
I will say that I have never had a huge need for Egnaters service in that all my stuff WORKED...cudos to Bruce. And to be fair ALL of my hand made Eggie gear worked fine right up to the moment I sold it. But did have some questions and some minor modifications I wanted done in the last two or so years. However in the last 2 1/2 years I have had horrible service in terms of communication from the company. It is my opinion but if I purchase more than 1 of your ENTIRE product line then I expect to have a phone answered. It is simply not good enough to put up email links that don't get answered or to leave numerous messages on the machine with no callback. I don't know what happened with Jeff Hilligan leaving and I don't know him but even he was very nonresponsive. I never thought I would have to say that I owned that much Eggie gear to get treated well, (and I never did say that), I think all of us should get good service. I know Ian is trying to be responsive and address some issues and I wish him luck. But gentlemen...you poor service has led to you losing what I would call a platinum client. If you cant even manage to return calls then how should I feel comfortable with a quick turnaround on a repair? This isn't some Marshall circuit that a million guys can fix...these are proprietary designs. I have read posts a recent as this week where it's just excuses about you getting back to people. I understand that Bruce is busy and that Ian is as well....then hire someone to do the job! Figure out the infrastructure to address your customers.
I have erased a list of how many times I have not gotten addressed as I don't think it helps...you guys on this forum know what I mean. I know some of you guys have a more direct link to the people at Egnater and I'm glad for you but I bet I've purchased more gear from them than you...point is that everyone should feel like they can get service...from the kid with a Tweaker to some one who's spent tens of thousands.
My company employs 47 people and my families company employs over 600 but you can get myself and or my father the CEO on the phone! It is simply a matter of desire and organization.
I am very sorry the Modular line as we know it has been more or less eliminated. If it's manufacture is farmed out then I hope the quality is the same or better and the service upped greatly. I have seen a tiny bit from Bruce about this on this forum but I would think he would want to reassure his loyal customers (the ones that constantly have sung his praises on this forum) that your not leaving them in the cold with product or service. They and people like myself have probably done more for your guitar center line than anything because WE were the ones saying how cool your stuff was before most people knew who you were.
One person who posts here ALOT recently said something like "I'm glad I got to experience the Golden era of Egnater before it went away". I think that is sad.
I know you want to make money Bruce...we all do. I think it's unfortunate that you are changing what really gave you a rep in the first place. There are many companies that have expanded their products to include cheaper lines BUT have kept their high end "hand made" stuff in place. Soldano, Bogner, Mesa to a certain extent and others to varying degrees. Mike Soldano has a lower end line as well but he still makes the high end stuff...and I can get him on the phone.
Sure I pay more but for higher end gear and the service I NEED with it and I'm fine with that within reason. I have alot of high end guitars (that I use ...not decoration) and quite a few PRS guitars...now there is a company with many product lines and has been around for a while and has an overseas line.... and Paul takes my calls! The longest I,ve ever had to wait for a call back was one day..from the OWNER! It is possible...it is a matter of choice.
You may say "well then go and buy a Soldano or whatever if their so cool". Point is, I really want the Egnater stuff...that I fell in love with and used.....with service and continued support. Gear by the way that was seen by thousands of people nightly that can afford to buy it! I have never asked for or wanted to be an endorser...I know guys that are endorsers and don't like the gear they play. I was into the Eggie gear cause it was what I really thought was the best.
It is too bad that part seems to be over, because for whatever reason the high end modular line was not important enough to support. I would need convincing that any "farming out" of the modular line would be as high in quality has the hand made or "Michigan" stuff. The Randall stuff isn't even close.
So in the effort to be positive I would hope/suggest that perhaps you would address the service/reliability issue just on your cheaper gear. That you perhaps find a sub contractor that could continue on with your modular line with NO loss of quality and someone who would answer the phone to premium clients (or all clients) and have a very professional reliable service structure to get modifications and fixes turned around.
I myself would pay more if that's what it took. I would like to think there are others that share my opinion based on reading this board for years.
I don't know the people who are on this board and are enthusiastic about your products, but they seem like a great bunch who want to be loyal but are slowly being pushed away from anything to be loyal too.
Think of it this way...if you had 15 people like me who have spent as much on your products...that's almost half a million dollars. The $25,000+ I've spent doesn't mean I should get treated any different than the guy who bought one module but if I, a person who's spent that much can't even be treated like a valued customer something needs to be addressed in your company.
I have met Bruce twice at NAMM and he is a nice guy. Very smart man and I think a great amp designer. I would love nothing more than to come back to the Egnater line and purchase all that gear all over again...I miss the days when I looked forward to new modules and or an amp build seminar or the E2 or the Gretchen module (we all should have been able to buy) or any of the other things that made you guy's so "cool" in the market.
What would you say to Ty Tabor (I've heard his rig with your stuff he's using now) if he asked these questions?
I will say from my families business perspective that it is hard enough to get someone to want to buy the goods that you produce, it is VERY hard to get someone to return their business to you once they have had a bad experience. Perhaps you have had the luxury of not needing loyal return customers and don't quantify word of mouth.
We in our family business fight tooth and nail for every client we have even though we sell world wide.
There's a lot more I could say but that is the jist of it.
I would love to hear your perspective on this (Egnater), and your take on the future.
Perhaps we can get back to another "Golden Era"...I hope so.
For now..the search resumes.
All of that was meant with respect...to Bruce, Ian and all the people who post here.
Thanks
PS.....In addition to Bruce...Please...the rest of you all, let me know your thoughts and whether you agree or not...I would appreciate it.
This will be my first and probably last post to this forum. I have been lurking and reading here for years. I am more of a talker than typer so I usually never post on boards. I have enjoyed the banter here and have learned many things..thank you all for the info and opinions.
I felt compelled to voice my opinion and observations on this forum at what I feel is a crucial point in history for the Egnater company and for me as a former client/user of their products.
A bit of background: I am a 40 year old who has been playing for thirty years, 25 as a professional. I play 4 other instruments and currently own a large marketing company. I have owned two large recording/production studios in the last 20 years.
I have played on many national jingles, two sessions on platinum records and have played a countless amount of live gigs (whether in front of 20 or 20,000 people. I have co owned two clubs in a very large resort in the US. I currently am lucky enough to play four times a week in front of 400 a night in a large resort area in US (not gonna say which) as well as specialty gigs 3 or 4 times a year in front of 15,000 + people. I say all this only to give some perspective on my experience and how lucky I have been to play and be around the business this long. My family has been in the manufacturing/retail business at home and abroad for over 94 years.
I, like many of you have owned everything in terms of amps and between me and the people I'm fortunate enough to be friends with I have either used or gotten to try damn near every amp I have ever heard of over the years.
Having said that I just liquidated over $30,000 in Egnater gear. I have owned nearly everything he's ever made ....the list:
2 M4 preamps (dual channel)
1 original M4 (single channel)
2 Egnater IE4's
22 modules
2 MOD 100's
2 MOD 50's
2 MICA TOL 100's
2 Rocktron TOL 50's
2 Rocktron TOL 100's
Please note: I am not an instrument retailer nor have I ever been....I am a musician....all of the gear I just listed I bought to play thru.
I would now like to hopefully make a few simple points ( I do not want to slam Bruce or Ian or the company in any way...please take it for what it is ....one persons point of view)
I initially started using Egnater amps once I heard a MICA 100. I thought the tone was great and I liked his approach to the amp, midi, voicing switches etc. A long time ago I stopped using "mass" produced amps.(I played everything a kid could coming up, from the cheapest on up but got to a point where I could afford a little higher end amp) Anyway, mass production amps, I thought they usually lacked in quality and consistency. I always looked for a company who was very attentive to service and was easy to get a hold of and would listen to my needs. Amps are like race cars...they are tools and they need to RUN...when they don't there needs to be a great infrastructure to get them repaired. Gone are the days when there were only two or three major amps and alot of guys could repair them. I have worked with Mesa, Soldano, Matchless, and other companies like them because they were more or less custom shops and I had a direct line to the owner OR the guy who built my amp. Sometimes these companies got too big or changed the product line. Anyway, back to Egnater
I really enjoyed using the MICA series and thought the Rocktron ones were a good lower cost version( I have nothing against a lower line of anything). Where I really fell in love was when Bruce came out with the Modular line. Like I'm sure with many of you, this really appealed to my way of thinking and made so much sense and Bruce has incredible ears.... I NEED that much versatility. I have to go from drop C King's X to Simon and Garfunkle and everything in between (you know what I mean). I was never a fan of vintage gear. I love the tones but just hate the lack of road worthiness and versatility. I need those all those sounds but I want modern engineering. Just for the record Bruce, I think the modular line was the most innovative amp invention in the last 25 years. It allowed me to scale my rig when I wanted from 1x12 to 3 full stacks depending on the gig. My M4 rigs went from the heaviest to the lightest sounds with ease and I was daily getting compliments on my tone. You were a small, American company with a small, very loyal group of customers that thought your stuff was fantastic.
Then things changed,
Coming from a family that has been in large scale manufacturing/retail for almost 100 years I can say that the biggest thing we've lost as a country in the last 30 years is SERVICE.
I can't say I blame Bruce for wanting to go big. Many, many businesses over the years have lost their way in an effort to increase market share. I have seen many operators really lose in the long run as they went for larger numbers and lost their core following OR mass marketed a product only to fail at servicing it.
Let me say I can understand why Bruce would want to have a company like Guitar Center or Walmart selling thousands of his product...WHO WOULDN'T WANT THAT? I don't "blame" him in the slightest.
It is my understanding that there wasn't really that much money in making the MOD and M4 product line by hand. I can relate to them wanting to have a lower end, more affordable line of amps. We all know that there is no way to approach those price points anymore without manufacturing oversees..that's fine. It IS possible to manufacture very high quality in Korea or China with good quality control....is is a matter of EFFORT and money. My family has electronics manufactured over seas and I can tell you that you can surpass our quality levels depending on how you approach it.
My point is this: Egnater did two things that I think were mistakes and may harm them in the long run.
1. The quality of the overseas stuff is low. I have had no less than 6 different pro players I know try either a Renegade or Rebel only to return them for reliability or function issues. (this isn't kids here folks, I'm talking working pro's)
Not that there's anything wrong with that but a first impression in the amp world will stay with you for a long time. Even the guys I know that work at Guitar Center are not pushing those amps.
Just an observation....I doesn't really affect me in that I don't use those amps...how it does affect me is this...Egnater has effectively killed their modular line BECAUSE of the cheaper overseas stuff.
You guys know what I mean..there are dozens of posts on this forum about service....let's face it, a fair share of the posts nowadays are about problems with that line or not being able to get a response from the company.
2. The over seas line has terminated the Modular line in terms of replacement components and service.
I will say that I have never had a huge need for Egnaters service in that all my stuff WORKED...cudos to Bruce. And to be fair ALL of my hand made Eggie gear worked fine right up to the moment I sold it. But did have some questions and some minor modifications I wanted done in the last two or so years. However in the last 2 1/2 years I have had horrible service in terms of communication from the company. It is my opinion but if I purchase more than 1 of your ENTIRE product line then I expect to have a phone answered. It is simply not good enough to put up email links that don't get answered or to leave numerous messages on the machine with no callback. I don't know what happened with Jeff Hilligan leaving and I don't know him but even he was very nonresponsive. I never thought I would have to say that I owned that much Eggie gear to get treated well, (and I never did say that), I think all of us should get good service. I know Ian is trying to be responsive and address some issues and I wish him luck. But gentlemen...you poor service has led to you losing what I would call a platinum client. If you cant even manage to return calls then how should I feel comfortable with a quick turnaround on a repair? This isn't some Marshall circuit that a million guys can fix...these are proprietary designs. I have read posts a recent as this week where it's just excuses about you getting back to people. I understand that Bruce is busy and that Ian is as well....then hire someone to do the job! Figure out the infrastructure to address your customers.
I have erased a list of how many times I have not gotten addressed as I don't think it helps...you guys on this forum know what I mean. I know some of you guys have a more direct link to the people at Egnater and I'm glad for you but I bet I've purchased more gear from them than you...point is that everyone should feel like they can get service...from the kid with a Tweaker to some one who's spent tens of thousands.
My company employs 47 people and my families company employs over 600 but you can get myself and or my father the CEO on the phone! It is simply a matter of desire and organization.
I am very sorry the Modular line as we know it has been more or less eliminated. If it's manufacture is farmed out then I hope the quality is the same or better and the service upped greatly. I have seen a tiny bit from Bruce about this on this forum but I would think he would want to reassure his loyal customers (the ones that constantly have sung his praises on this forum) that your not leaving them in the cold with product or service. They and people like myself have probably done more for your guitar center line than anything because WE were the ones saying how cool your stuff was before most people knew who you were.
One person who posts here ALOT recently said something like "I'm glad I got to experience the Golden era of Egnater before it went away". I think that is sad.
I know you want to make money Bruce...we all do. I think it's unfortunate that you are changing what really gave you a rep in the first place. There are many companies that have expanded their products to include cheaper lines BUT have kept their high end "hand made" stuff in place. Soldano, Bogner, Mesa to a certain extent and others to varying degrees. Mike Soldano has a lower end line as well but he still makes the high end stuff...and I can get him on the phone.
Sure I pay more but for higher end gear and the service I NEED with it and I'm fine with that within reason. I have alot of high end guitars (that I use ...not decoration) and quite a few PRS guitars...now there is a company with many product lines and has been around for a while and has an overseas line.... and Paul takes my calls! The longest I,ve ever had to wait for a call back was one day..from the OWNER! It is possible...it is a matter of choice.
You may say "well then go and buy a Soldano or whatever if their so cool". Point is, I really want the Egnater stuff...that I fell in love with and used.....with service and continued support. Gear by the way that was seen by thousands of people nightly that can afford to buy it! I have never asked for or wanted to be an endorser...I know guys that are endorsers and don't like the gear they play. I was into the Eggie gear cause it was what I really thought was the best.
It is too bad that part seems to be over, because for whatever reason the high end modular line was not important enough to support. I would need convincing that any "farming out" of the modular line would be as high in quality has the hand made or "Michigan" stuff. The Randall stuff isn't even close.
So in the effort to be positive I would hope/suggest that perhaps you would address the service/reliability issue just on your cheaper gear. That you perhaps find a sub contractor that could continue on with your modular line with NO loss of quality and someone who would answer the phone to premium clients (or all clients) and have a very professional reliable service structure to get modifications and fixes turned around.
I myself would pay more if that's what it took. I would like to think there are others that share my opinion based on reading this board for years.
I don't know the people who are on this board and are enthusiastic about your products, but they seem like a great bunch who want to be loyal but are slowly being pushed away from anything to be loyal too.
Think of it this way...if you had 15 people like me who have spent as much on your products...that's almost half a million dollars. The $25,000+ I've spent doesn't mean I should get treated any different than the guy who bought one module but if I, a person who's spent that much can't even be treated like a valued customer something needs to be addressed in your company.
I have met Bruce twice at NAMM and he is a nice guy. Very smart man and I think a great amp designer. I would love nothing more than to come back to the Egnater line and purchase all that gear all over again...I miss the days when I looked forward to new modules and or an amp build seminar or the E2 or the Gretchen module (we all should have been able to buy) or any of the other things that made you guy's so "cool" in the market.
What would you say to Ty Tabor (I've heard his rig with your stuff he's using now) if he asked these questions?
I will say from my families business perspective that it is hard enough to get someone to want to buy the goods that you produce, it is VERY hard to get someone to return their business to you once they have had a bad experience. Perhaps you have had the luxury of not needing loyal return customers and don't quantify word of mouth.
We in our family business fight tooth and nail for every client we have even though we sell world wide.
There's a lot more I could say but that is the jist of it.
I would love to hear your perspective on this (Egnater), and your take on the future.
Perhaps we can get back to another "Golden Era"...I hope so.
For now..the search resumes.
All of that was meant with respect...to Bruce, Ian and all the people who post here.
Thanks
PS.....In addition to Bruce...Please...the rest of you all, let me know your thoughts and whether you agree or not...I would appreciate it.
But even PV is sending a lot of their production over seas.
) BAD decision IMHO.