Hung up on weight relief

[barnesjd]

Some people care and you should be able to respect that. One might ask for instance who needs an ornately carved stained quilted maple pedalboard when a couple pieces of plywood glued together would also do the trick. But there are people who do and more power to them.

Get over it. Who cares if it's weight relieved, chambered or they had a rat chew out some of the wood, as long as it sounds and plays good?

It's all good. I'm asking to disrespect my opinion in case it's wrong.

That's correct. I implied an opinion can be wrong.

 

[thiswaythatway]

I checked out some older LP's that were over 10lbs, not sure if they had Swiss Cheese holes or not, but most of them had the frest shaved down too low for me. I had a 2013 Traditional that was maybe right around 10 lbs, it was decent but I didn't like the 50's neck and it was actually a very bright guitar. It came with the 57 classics, If I kept it those pickups would have been replaced. For around $1500 they are a good deal though.

 

[Tone Zone]

Just beware that the newer solid-body Gibson's are going to be on the heavy side unless you go Custom Shop.

Oh yeah? My new Traditional comes in at 8lbs 13oz.

 

[Bob Savage]

Some people care and you should be able to respect that. One might ask for instance who needs an ornately carved stained quilted maple pedalboard when a couple pieces of plywood glued together would also do the trick. But there are people who do and more power to them.

Nobody "needs" a fancy pedalboard. It's a luxury item.

There's a big difference though. You're making an analogy between something that is all about looks and something that nobody can see. The ornate pedalboard makes no sound so all of it's "bite" has to do with appearance and to some degree utility factor.

The guitar is all about how it plays and how it sounds. Nobody can see what's underneath and even if you were playing for 100 guitar players that know about LPs, there might me 2 that would know whether the guitar had any chambering or weight relief and probably only one of them would even care.

I'm not trying to be argumentative and if someone can't get over whether the inside of their guitar has had material removed or not, I respect their right to choose based upon that criteria, but it doesn't mean I have to agree with it or think that there is any rational reasoning behind it.

 

[Bob Savage]

It's all good. I'm asking to disrespect my opinion in case it's wrong.

That's correct. I implied an opinion can be wrong.

Wrong depends on your goal. If all you care about is a good playing, good sounding LP then you're limiting your prospects by only allowing solid (un weight relieved in any way) to be considered.

If you have some other reason for not wanting weight relief, then it's just some personal preference. An idiosyncrasy of sorts. No problem there and I mean it, not in an insulting way.

 

[Stealthtastic]

If it's going to bug you then buy a non-cheese.

You can always have fretwork done , pickups changed etc but you can really open the guitar up and start filling it with wood lol

 

[steve_k]

If you really wanted to feel cheated, wait until you find out you have a two piece fretboard on your LP.

 

[Tone Zone]

If you really wanted to feel cheated, wait until you find out you have a two piece fretboard on your LP.

Is this really the case? Most people say the 2013 Traditionals came with a 1-piece fretboard, but I know some believe that Gibson still used 2-pieced fretboards? On their website for 2014, they make a point to come out and say that they are only using 1-piece fretboards...for the Traditional anyway.

 

[steve_k]

If you really wanted to feel cheated, wait until you find out you have a two piece fretboard on your LP.

Is this really the case? Most people say the 2013 Traditionals came with a 1-piece fretboard, but I know some believe that Gibson still used 2-pieced fretboards? On their website for 2014, they make a point to come out and say that they are only using 1-piece fretboards...for the Traditional anyway.

I don't know, but some of them in 2012 and early 13 (all of the 100 or so Les Paul choices including custom shop) have two piece boards with a layer of Richlite under the thin RW. The only way you will know, other than feel/tone (if you are astute enough to tell) is by lifting the nut. Many people want to immediately change the Corian nut to bone and then see the layers. Not sure if it was disclosed or not with the guitar.

 

[Orvillain]

I don't understand why you would care, or spend the money it'll cost you, when you've got 4 kids and only play 30 minutes a week. Takes all sorts I suppose!

 

[barnesjd]

While I certainly agree with the folks around here who make the very valid point that it shouldn't matter as long as it sounds good. There's no debating that point.

I get hung up on it because based on what I've read, the drilling was originally to offset the heavier weight of cheaper mahogany starting in '82. Now they claim that it costs them more money and they do it because it sounds better. Maybe it does. But the Les Paul was established as a pillar of rock long before they started drilling around in them. I'm not looking for a better sounding LP (assuming the holes do that) but I'm looking for the iconic LP sound. Can I tell a difference? Maybe not. It just doesn't seem right to mess with it to me.

 

[barnesjd]

I really wish I liked the finishes on those 2013 Traditionals, but none of them really beg me to buy one. Too bad they didn't do tobacco burst or gold tops on that model. Even wine red would work for me.

 

[Schaf]

Get over it. Who cares if it's weight relieved, chambered or they had a rat chew out some of the wood, as long as it sounds and plays good?

That's what I've said for a long time. The best sounding Les Paul I've ever played bar none was a 2005 CS Custom that I sold on here about a year ago. It had the swiss cheese holes. The neck was just a bit too big for me. Otherwise I would have NEVER sold that guitar. I actually own a chambered CS standard now. It sounds great. But I never would have sold the custom if not for the neck.

It's funny how some of those 70's and 80's LP's are so popular now. They weren't considered desirable until pretty recently.

 

[Bob Savage]

While I certainly agree with the folks around here who make the very valid point that it shouldn't matter as long as it sounds good. There's no debating that point.

I get hung up on it because based on what I've read, the drilling was originally to offset the heavier weight of cheaper mahogany starting in '82. Now they claim that it costs them more money and they do it because it sounds better. Maybe it does. But the Les Paul was established as a pillar of rock long before they started drilling around in them. I'm not looking for a better sounding LP (assuming the holes do that) but I'm looking for the iconic LP sound. Can I tell a difference? Maybe not. It just doesn't seem right to mess with it to me.

There are a lot of opinions about why it originally started but the rationale that since the LP became a pillar of rock pre-weight relief so that's what you need ignores the concept of progress. The Corvette of today destroys those of old in every measurable way (which excludes the way it looks due to subjectivity), but the Vette became an American icon in the 50's.

 

[barnesjd]

There are a lot of opinions about why it originally started but the rationale that since the LP became a pillar of rock pre-weight relief so that's what you need ignores the concept of progress. The Corvette of today destroys those of old in every measurable way (which excludes the way it looks due to subjectivity), but the Vette became an American icon in the 50's.

I think the comparison to Corvettes is apples and oranges. With a guitar, there is a certain sound that it makes. While sound can be measured in some ways, it's very qualitative. Fiddling with the design works against that. A sports car on the other hand performs in ways that are certainly measurable and less qualitative. Enhancements in engineering and design have greatly impacted that over time.

 

[Bob Savage]

I think the comparison to Corvettes is apples and oranges. With a guitar, there is a certain sound that it makes. While sound can be measured in some ways, it's very qualitative. Fiddling with the design works against that. A sports car on the other hand performs in ways that are certainly measurable and less qualitative. Enhancements in engineering and design have greatly impacted that over time.

The analogy is not a comparison of item characteristics, it's a parallel of progress. Differences in wood, even within the same tree "fiddle with the design" in more significant ways than weight relief. There are certain qualities in the way an LP sounds that have certainly been maintained over the years. Sure, there are duds but this has nothing to do with the design, it has to do with the sum of the parts and the reliance upon wood and to some degree the tolerance variations of electronic components.

There are great sounding LPs across every decade, and those LPs maintain distinct characteristics regardless of whether or not they're weight relieved, chambered, whatever.

 

[PhloridaMan]

I have one of each... Other than weight, I can't tell a HUGE difference... Maybe it's just me... I prefer the weight relieved one honestly

 

[jsp]

The best sounding guitar I've owned was a swiss-cheesed LP Classic.

 

[Shawn Lutz]

I don't get this really and never knew people cared that much until I started getting into LP's. I really never cared how much a guitar weighed if it plays and sounds great so what? Granted I was never into vintage Gibson LP's and honestly didn't care for them until I bought a 2012 trad + out of the blue. My Traditional + weighs 9.6 LBS and has the swiss cheese weight relief...a lot of the non weight relief trads are under 9 LBS. I also have a 2008 57 RI BB7 LPC that is all mahogany and no weight relief and it weighs 10.2 LBS both of those guitars kill it and I honestly would not care if they had swiss cheese, old weight relief, modern weight relief or none. If I gave a shit about that I would have passed on two awesome LP's

 

[skoora]

I'm just down for low 9's or less LP's period. I don't care if it's because of weight relief or that particular wood on that day was light. I hate the tanks. I've found no significant difference in tone between them that couldn't be argued as pickups, hardware or anything that could be slightly different from one guitar to the next. Considering that the brightest/thinnest sounding LP's I ever owned were 10+ lbs from the 70's I long ago called bullshit on heavy guitar = big sound. I don't think using maple necks was doing them any favors back then either.

For demoing a new one, it goes right back on the wall without a single strum if it's too heavy.