I Miss Real Drums

[Bram576]

I don't have an issue with some sample blending but I think it is the snapping to grid and as mentioned, compressing everything to the point where it is just a very loud track with even hits across the board, zero dynamics. Maybe part of the problem is that there should be LESS processing on everything else so the drums would have a chance of getting through.

Oh yeah definitely, I totally agree! especially on the whole snapping to the grid thing, and having dynamics as well.

Like I said the snare samples I blend are all the drummers actual hits like they’re doing in specific parts, so you have varying dynamics and stuff like that. Double kicks going 250 bpm, shouldn’t be as loud as single spaced out 1/4 notes lol. Same with crazy fills all 127d out.

For better or worse on my stuff I try to have the only editing on my tracks be drums if they’re way off then guitar bass and vocals are 100 percent performance based. Sometimes musicians including my own band mates get pissed off recording the same stuff over and over but If you can’t actually play it, you shouldn’t be recording it IMO. Honestly when it comes down to it, good performances really shine through in a mix more than anything.

 

[RaceU4her]

I purposely never learned to trigger or use samples or do really any editing, I’m not even sure how to punch in guitars without making a whole different track and cut and pasting in which it’s quicker just to record the part over, I’m sure there’s an easy way to highlight the part or something easy. I kinda take pride knowing everything is totally live and unedited

 

[RevDrucifer]

I don't have an issue with some sample blending but I think it is the snapping to grid and as mentioned, compressing everything to the point where it is just a very loud track with even hits across the board, zero dynamics. Maybe part of the problem is that there should be LESS processing on everything else so the drums would have a chance of getting through.

It’s not even a matter of everything else being overly processed, it’s just the nature of how everything ends up working in a mix when there’s so much stuff fighting for the same space. Vocals, guitars, cymbals, all loud as fuck and wanting their own real estate.

I don’t get miffed about snapping drums to a grid; the overwhelming majority of music we’ve heard since the 80’s has been played to a click or fucked with to get it in time, being .002 milliseconds before/after the beat isn’t delivering enough “feel” for me to even give it a second guess. It’s all the other editing/copy paste shit that happens with guitars/bass/vocals that drives me nuts.

Like @RaceU4her said, there’s something to appreciate about going for full takes from start to finish. I leave a shitload of mistakes in my recordings because I have zero interest in perfection that’s made everything sound so stale in the last 20 years. It’s exactly what I love about listening to an AIC album and not every guitar track is perfect with the other, the vocals might be a little out on one harmony, those dudes didn’t even track to a click. Maybe on the newer stuff, but they weren’t in the 90’s.

And then there’s the basic preferences aspect of things that I see sometimes get dismissed with the assumption someone took the easy way out or didn’t acknowledge something when they were recording or mixing, instead of them being intentional choices. I touched on that a bit yesterday when I posted a song I just finished, every time I release a song I get several people suggesting I do something differently with the mix or a part in the song as if I didn’t do those things 100% intentionally. Lars‘ drums sounds are a good example, I’m not a fan of how they’ve sounded recently, but maybe Lars really fucking likes them and wouldn’t sign off on the album until they were on there.

(Sorry, went on a bit there)

 

[Rex Rocker]

I hear and I agree about the plastic-y nature of some of the uber-processed drums.

But I think there's two sides to the coin as well. I also dread hearing bands taking the opposite approach just to be hip and different, and ending up with such underproduced cardboard-y sounding drums. Like Mastodon's Leviathan.

 

[RevDrucifer]

I hear and I agree about the plastic-y nature of some of the uber-processed drums.

But I think there's two sides to the coin as well. I also dread hearing bands taking the opposite approach just to be hip and different, and ending up with such underproduced cardboard-y sounding drums. Like Mastodon's Leviathan.

Hahahah to be fair, I think a polished drum sound in comparison to the rest of Leviathan would stick out like a sore thumb.

Love the drum sounds on every Mastodon album since Crack The Skye though. Brann doesn’t shy away from swapping out kit pieces or entire kits to work specifically for a song. The drum sound in “More Than I Could Chew”….that fucking kick is huge.

 

[Rex Rocker]

Hahahah to be fair, I think a polished drum sound in comparison to the rest of Leviathan would stick out like a sore thumb.

Love the drum sounds on every Mastodon album since Crack The Skye though. Brann doesn’t shy away from swapping out kit pieces or entire kits to work specifically for a song. The drum sound in “More Than I Could Chew”….that fucking kick is huge.

Yeah, that sounds killer.

I think for me, it's jus that I hate hearing non-metal-sounding kicks in metal.

I know it's not really metal, but the first thing that I heard and HATED about Opeth's Heritage was the kick that sounded like a cardboard box being hit with a burger as the beater.

 

[thegame]

Megadeth's Countdown to Extinction was probably the first metal recording that purposely got everything perfectly time aligned on a grid via technology. Considering it was recorded in 91-92, perhaps it wasn't a 'grid' as is used today but nevertheless they must've done it with comparatively primitive technology. At the time they said the goal was zero tempo fluctuation and also that every drum hit had to land on the beat 100%. Furthermore, every pick attack from all stringed instruments had to be dead on to the kick and snare as well. It definitely sounds more sterile than all previous Megadeth records but not as sterile as other band's productions would become years later.

I have great difficultly 'feeling' music when it's recorded like this, especially if the drum tracks are literally drum machines/software or if they're real performances by real drummers yet digitally manipulated to be as drum machine/unhuman like as possible. That's one reason I hated so much early 90's heavy music like Ministry, White Zombie, anything even remotely 'industrial'. It all sounds dead and lifeless to me.

 

[rsm]

I always enjoyed Bill Bruford's drumming. Especially with Holdsworth, Berlin and Stewart

 

[skoora]

sounds like you like the 90's thin snare tuned high fad. Nothing wrong with that at all, I like it as well. But that's definitely not the average snare sound from most other eras of pretty much all music.

I promise I'm not being defensive as it is my band and all, but calling that sound a "thud" that sounds like a Tom ain't anywhere near what my ears are hearing

Actually I don’t care much for the piccolo snare sound from then as it often robbed the beat of weight when it was often paired with thick, down tuned guitars. One of the few records where I like it and they did it perfectly was Betty from Helmet. But the 100’s of Korn and Deftones derivatives that followed those two bands didn’t do anything for me. I just want to hear the actual snare and hear that slight ring that’s left after usually spending hours trying to get rid of it..lol There’s just a point where the mix low end in a snare is over riding the crack, the attack and I don’t care for it. To me it robs the aggression out of music that should be mean and rockin’ my balls. When it’s all just fat and smooth and thick, with a little guitar sizzle on top, it doesn’t rock for me anymore.
But I’m just and old guy on a guitar forum who’s glory days are behind him and will leave new music to the kids. I just keep getting bummed out when I hear of a new band or newer release from an older band and it’s just the same sound again and again. In an age where new players (not you, just the general populace) think modeler and sim tones are sweet and don’t bother making the one they use different from the other 6 bands that released that week and the old amps are useless and drum software is just how it’s done and sounds awesome, I have no valid opinion for them. Because even recordings where a real drums are used they’re often mixed to sound like software anyway.

A band that you and I probably both like and definitely in your bands wheelhouse, Sick of it All is a band that more often than not does a snare I like, still quite compressed and gated etc but you can really hear the drum on rolls and standout hits in breakdowns etc. Speaking of, you guys should do a cover of We Stand Alone. It would slay. Check out their video for Road Less Travelled. Reminded me of your video in a good way.

An example of a band in a different genre that gets what I consider a very good, modern snare sound where it still retains the right characteristics is Rammstein.