Intonation for high E string still sharp at 12th fret with saddle all the way back

  • Thread starter Thread starter conanthewarrior
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simonfrewler said:
Everything you are saying points to string issue.
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OK thank you :) . I don't have another set of spare strings at the moment so will order some more.

As I said, the guitar was usually rock solid regarding intonation and staying in tune. I will have to put up with this until a new set of strings arrive grrrrr.
 
simonfrewler said:
Another tip is to intonate from the 3 and 15th fret..
Allegedly it gives a better intonation across the whole fretboard.


Reference
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OK, I have just read this and am trying to get my head around it.

So I would get the 3rd fret in tune, then the 15th, and where they are both slightly out of tune I would tune to in the middle of them so the intonation is more accurate?

I hope I explained that correctly, it made sense in my head at least lol.
 
conanthewarrior said:
OK, I have just read this and am trying to get my head around it.

So I would get the 3rd fret in tune, then the 15th, and where they are both slightly out of tune I would tune to in the middle of them so the intonation is more accurate?

I hope I explained that correctly, it made sense in my head at least lol.
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Honestly, you don't have to go that Into it...unless you want to get stuck in an intonation/temperament rabbit hole of insanity.?

Just do normal intonation as you know it, from the 3rd to the 15th

Most won't notice it.

If it bothers you, you won't be able to unhear it now....and eventually you'll end up with one of those fancy cursive fretboards that you see out there.

So there are 2 roads....simple easy.....or madness. ?
 
simonfrewler said:
Honestly, you don't have to go that Into...unless you want to get stuck in an intonation/temperament rabbit hole of insanity.?

Just do normal intonation as you know it, from the 3rd to the 15th

Most won't notice it.

If it bothers you, you won't be able to unheard it now....and eventually you'll end up with one of those fancy cursive fretboards that you see out there.

So there are 2 roads....simple easy.....or madness. ?
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I think I will stick with the 12th fret then, as I do easily get obsessed with things, for example I started vaping in 2015 with box mods to quit smoking, I ended up with 42 different mods and over 100 tanks, was on a forum for it and getting free mods sent from China to review. Now I look back and think I was insane, I have all these mods that do pretty much exactly the same thing, why do I need 42?

I will end up intonation "hunting" and constantly hearing out of tune notes, constantly checking and setting it, and probably buying different style bridges and experimenting with different types of strings etc.

I've gone mad with the vapes, so please Conan, don't do this with intonation ?
 
Findthetone1 said:
Hmm. I'd start with a new set of strings.
You usually don't hear about TOM nashville style bridges running out of intonation room. I've had to flip a saddle around on Les Pauls before for that reason but they were all ABR-1 bridges.
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This. New strings.
 
simonfrewler said:
Honestly, you don't have to go that Into it...unless you want to get stuck in an intonation/temperament rabbit hole of insanity.?

Just do normal intonation as you know it, from the 3rd to the 15th

Most won't notice it.

If it bothers you, you won't be able to unhear it now....and eventually you'll end up with one of those fancy cursive fretboards that you see out there.

So there are 2 roads....simple easy.....or madness. ?
Click to expand...
There’s also the EVH tuning offsets. Or the Buzz Feitin system.
 
It could be the nut. If the string is not riding off of the leading edge of the nut but rather at some point behind it you’ll get exactly what you have.

You’ll tune the string up to pitch but since the string isn’t riding off the leading edge the distance to the first fret (and every other fret) is increased so the pitch goes sharp when you fret. And you can’t fix that by moving the saddle.

Also, have you seen the typical ‘double-ramp’ pattern of the saddles for compensated stoptails? There is a reason those work even tho they don’t have individually adjustable saddles. And the reason is that for typical guitar string sets/gages that double-ramp pattern should ALWAYS be perfectly intonated. If not, something is off, something else, not the saddles, usually the nut.
 
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SpiderWars said:
It could be the nut. If the string is not riding off of the leading edge of the nut but rather at some point behind it you’ll get exactly what you have.

You’ll tune the string up to pitch but since the string isn’t riding off the leading edge the distance to the first fret (and every other fret) is increased so the pitch goes sharp when you fret. And you can’t fix that by moving the saddle.

Also, have you seen the typical ‘double-ramp’ pattern of the saddles for compensated stoptails? There is a reason those work even tho they don’t have individually adjustable saddles. And the reason is that for typical guitar string sets/gages that double-ramp pattern should ALWAYS be perfectly intonated. If not, something is off, something else, not the saddles, usually the nut.
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Thank you for your advice, although from throughout this thread I am certain it must be the strings so will change those first.

I do have one of the Earvana compensated nuts on the guitar, these come as stock with the LTD MH1000 in questions time period, and it looks like the string is sitting exactly where it should be at the nut.

I must admit I haven't seen the double ramp style pattern of compensated stoptails. It is cool though that they are always perfectly intonated without needing adjustment. Is there anywhere I can see one of these, like what systems are they used on as I would like to check them out.

EDIT: Is this the kind of bridge you mean?
 

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conanthewarrior said:
Thank you for your advice, although from throughout this thread I am certain it must be the strings so will change those first.

I do have one of the Earvana compensated nuts on the guitar, these come as stock with the LTD MH1000 in questions time period, and it looks like the string is sitting exactly where it should be at the nut.

I must admit I haven't seen the double ramp style pattern of compensated stoptails. It is cool though that they are always perfectly intonated without needing adjustment. Is there anywhere I can see one of these, like what systems are they used on as I would like to check them out.

EDIT: Is this the kind of bridge you mean?
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Yeah that’s it but look at the G-string ‘saddle’. That’s for a wound G-string. They used those until around 1965 and then they moved that saddle back to where you normally see it.
 
conanthewarrior said:
It's definitely in the saddle correctly sitting in the groove.

Regarding the roller bridge, I have never tried one. Do you mean where it sits higher you can adjust the bridge screws lower to the body to get the action you want vs it being higher with the standard style TOM? Also I never realised they had more travel.

I do have the earvana compensated nut on this guitar, that is meant to help with intonation. This is the first time ever I have noticed the guitar sounding out of tune, usually it is rock solid and only needs tuning occasionally.
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Those Earvana's are wonky. I had a guitar that absolutely would not intonate, (a Schecter Elite), and I had it replaced, and it was night and day. They have a tendency to work against you.
 
napalmdeath said:
Those Earvana's are wonky. I had a guitar that absolutely would not intonate and I had it replaced, and it was night and day. They have a tendency to work against you.
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I see, I honestly have never had a problem before this setting intonation with the Earvana. It wasn't through choice I had it though, just when I bought the guitar in 2010 it was what came as standard on a MH1000.

Was it really off when you say it would not intonate? How much are we talking?
 
conanthewarrior said:
I see, I honestly have never had a problem before this setting intonation with the Earvana. It wasn't through choice I had it though, just when I bought the guitar in 2010 it was what came as standard on a MH1000.

Was it really off when you say it would not intonate? How much are we talking?
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It was on several strings. On the strobe it would be spot on, but never played/sounded right. It just always sounded "off", and drove me nuts, (no pun intended). The tech, (one of the best in town, and worked for Dean), told me "first thing to do is get rid of that piece of shit", (the Earvana), and he made one out of Tusq, and problem solved.
 
napalmdeath said:
It was on several strings. On the strobe it would be spot on, but never played/sounded right. It just always sounded "off", and drove me nuts, (no pun intended). The tech, (one of the best in town, and worked for Dean), told me "first thing to do is get rid of that piece of shit", (the Earvana), and he made one out of Tusq, and problem solved.
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Ok, thats odd that on the strobe it was spot on but never sounded right. I'm glad changing the nut sorted it for you, although I have never noticed any problems with mine.
Possibly yours was made slightly bad just like regular nuts can be?
 
conanthewarrior said:
Ok, thats odd that on the strobe it was spot on but never sounded right. I'm glad changing the nut sorted it for you, although I have never noticed any problems with mine.
Possibly yours was made slightly bad just like regular nuts can be?
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Could be. They are just cheap plastic, could have been defective in some manner. But, it's a love/hate nut for many.

And just to clarify, it really only seemed to shine for me in the cowboy chord area.. Beyond that is where it seemed wonky, and "off".
 
Did you resolve your intonation issue? Curious.....
I would guess it's the nut or defective string like mentioned
 
Briman24 said:
Did you resolve your intonation issue? Curious.....
I would guess it's the nut or defective string like mentioned
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I haven't yet got my new strings as I had to order some it was my last pack. The nut seems fine the way the string is sitting, exactly as it has been before on the Earvana nut, so I am guessing once I get some new strings it will resolve it.

The only thing that has changed is the strings, and before it was rock solid regarding staying in tune and intonation.

I will update when my new strings arrive if the problem has gone away or not. I am hoping it has though and imagine it will.
 
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