Intonation for high E string still sharp at 12th fret with saddle all the way back

conanthewarrior said:
Hello everyone, today I was playing and noticed things didn't sound right higher up the neck, so checked my intonation. Every other string was bang on from when I set it up but the high E string was really sharp at the 12th fret, about 40 cents.

I have moved the saddle back all the way, but am still showing the open E string in tune but the 12th fret is sharp by 26 cents.

The 12th fret harmonic is also off of the open string by around 12 cents sharp.

As I have moved the saddle all the way back, what can I do?

I am quite puzzled why this has happened as I set the guitar up previously and did the intonation, and for the high E string to be correct the saddle was nearly all the way forward, but now is really out.

Any help would be much appreciated.
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Rub some pulverized pencil lead into the nut slot, or color it in with a pencil.
 
conanthewarrior said:
Yes I always stretch my strings when I install a new set, and can try the pencil idea right now.
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Is sounds like the string might be binding up in the nut. Measure the distance from the nut to the 12fret and the 12th to the saddle. They should match (at least in theory). Is fret wire overly worn on the 12 fret whereby to sound properly the string has to be pushed deeper down ??? That would make it go sharp.
How are you stretching the strings? What’s your method?
 
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TheBiggestJerk said:
Is sounds like the string might be binding up in the nut. Measure the distance from the nut to the 12fret and the 12th to the saddle. They should match (at least in theory). Is fret wire overly worn on the 12 fret whereby to sound properly the string has to be pushed deeper down ??? That would make it go sharp.
How are you stretching the strings? What’s your method?
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I just used a tape measure, and it seems the distance is 32.5CM from the nut to the 12th fret, then 32.5CM from the 12th fret to where I would usually have the saddle set, but it is all the way back so is 33.1CM from the 12th fret but still that sharp.
No the fret wire is very good on the guitar, I have no idea how as I have had it since 2010 but there are no dinks or flat spots in the fretwire.

Well, when I put on fresh strings I lay the guitar down on its back, tune to pitch, then grab the string in the middle of the guitar and pull upwards firmly, then I grab closer to the bridge and pull up firmly, then closer to the neck and pull up firmly.
I then retune as this will have made the pitch go down from stretching, and repeat the stretching until it stays in tune.
 
stratjacket said:
This is what I was going to suggest as well. Nut Sauce works great but you can try a pencil in a pinch.
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I always thought that the graphite or nut sauce was mainly for guitars like stratocasters with a classic style trem, to help the string slide when that is used?
Where my guitar is a hardtail I thought as long as you have the nut cut correctly and the string was sitting there once you was in tune that was it?
Or is this to allow for the string moving when you do things like bends etc?
 
conanthewarrior said:
I always thought that the graphite or nut sauce was mainly for guitars like stratocasters with a classic style trem, to help the string slide when that is used?
Where my guitar is a hardtail I thought as long as you have the nut cut correctly and the string was sitting there once you was in tune that was it?
Or is this to allow for the string moving when you do things like bends etc?
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Yes! When you bend a string it moves through the nut slot.
 
TheBiggestJerk said:
Yes! When you bend a string it moves through the nut slot.
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I see, well I have used a pencil as you recommended.

I also posted the measurements from nut to 12th fret then 12th fret to saddle, and how I stretch my strings. It was the way I was shown to stretch strings, is it the right way?
 
conanthewarrior said:
I just used a tape measure, and it seems the distance is 32.5CM from the nut to the 12th fret, then 32.5CM from the 12th fret to where I would usually have the saddle set, but it is all the way back so is 33.1CM from the 12th fret but still that sharp.
No the fret wire is very good on the guitar, I have no idea how as I have had it since 2010 but there are no dinks or flat spots in the fretwire.

Well, when I put on fresh strings I lay the guitar down on its back, tune to pitch, then grab the string in the middle of the guitar and pull upwards firmly, then I grab closer to the bridge and pull up firmly, then closer to the neck and pull up firmly.
I then retune as this will have made the pitch go down from stretching, and repeat the stretching until it stays in tune.
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When I stretch strings, I tune almost upto pitch- but flat about a whole step. Then with a smooth barreled screwdriver I run the shaft under the string from end to end pulling up. By the time I’m done it’s completely slacked. Then I tune it up.
A .009 is .0089 when I’m done with it.
 
TheBiggestJerk said:
When I stretch strings, I tune almost upto pitch- but flat about a whole step. Then with a smooth barreled screwdriver I run the shaft under the string from end to end pulling up. By the time I’m done it’s completely slacked. Then I tune it up.
A .009 is .0089 when I’m done with it.
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Thats a great idea! It would definitely save my fingers from getting cut up pulling the strings, I will try that method next time!
 
conanthewarrior said:
I see, well I have used a pencil as you recommended.

I also posted the measurements from nut to 12th fret then 12th fret to saddle, and how I stretch my strings. It was the way I was shown to stretch strings, is it the right way?
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I’m not sure there is a right/wrong way, just different ways. I like to have a means to objectively gauge the change. From taught to slack is a good visual for me, plus it tightens the wrap at the post.
 
TheBiggestJerk said:
I’m not sure there is a right/wrong way, just different ways. I like to have a means to objectively gauge the change. From taught to slack is a good visual for me, plus it tightens the wrap at the post.
Click to expand...
I did a job for a fella once and he just didn’t want to pay for anything, and he was so heavy handed that he had huge wears in his frets - I mean like divets!!! ———v—-u—-.
All he wanted was the intonation fixed, that did exactly that - went sharp every time he fretted, because the string was forced down into the divet. I told him there’s only so much that I can do without a refret which he wasn’t having. So I did my best to straighten out the neck so as not to buzz and decrease the string travel at the fret, and it worked fine right up until he touched it.
 
TheBiggestJerk said:
I did a job for a fella once and he just didn’t want to pay for anything, and he was so heavy handed that he had huge wears in his frets - I mean like divets!!! ———v—-u—-.
All he wanted was the intonation fixed, that did exactly that - went sharp every time he fretted, because the string was forced down into the divet. I told him there’s only so much that I can do without a refret which he wasn’t having. So I did my best to straighten out the neck so as not to buzz and decrease the string travel at the fret, and it worked fine right up until he touched it.
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This reminds me of a close family friend, he has had his American standard strat for years, and some of the frets are pretty much flat and divots all over.
I've told him it needs a refret, he knows it as well, but keeps putting it off for some reason.

I don't know if I am light fingered or the fret material the high end LTD's used at the time was tougher, I know they use stainless steel now but do not believe mine are, but there is literally zero visible fret wear on my guitar, whereas I have known people have guitars a lot lot less and their frets be pretty much ruined.

I have had the guitar since 2010, been on and off playing with my health issues but I am surprised how well they have held up.
 
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