Is a Recessed Floyd on a Charvel a good idea?

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Digital Jams":19px9r2v said:
Gainzilla":19px9r2v said:
danyeo":19px9r2v said:
Chubtone":19px9r2v said:
Digital Jams":19px9r2v said:
Tom is the god father of the superstrat though.

How is Tom Anderson the godfather of the super strat? I've seen you write that a couple of times and :confused: each time.


I think he's one of the guys who refined and perfected certain things. But Wayne Charvel should probably get credit for getting the superstrat thing going.

I think Anderson was first to put maple top's over tone woods on strat style guitars though.
what about Kramer? Ibanez?

You are going to need to put Hamer in there before those two, Hamer offered the first production floyd guitars and locking nut guitars. Jol had a "in" with Rose back in the day when he could not pump out enough bridges and before Kramer got the rights.


Jol is probably one of the greatest assets guitar production has seen.

Im no expert on dates but you can take this for what its worth...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstrat
 
Anyone can add to Wiki, I had that reference banned from my school district :lol: :LOL:

Hamer had Floyds in 82.

I will say that boogie bodies had a part due to the meth head using them.
 
Digital Jams":1ic8ed49 said:
Anyone can add to Wiki, I had that reference banned from my school district :lol: :LOL:

Hamer had Floyds in 82.

I will say that boogie bodies had a part due to the meth head using them.
I know that wiki is suspect but all of those guys were players back then, especially Kramer and Charvel. Im not doubting what you said Hamer but the way I remember it, he came along after.

2 of my all time fave guitars were hamers. If they werent stolen, Id probably still have them

Kage
 
Gainzilla":cs6u6mli said:
Digital Jams":cs6u6mli said:
Anyone can add to Wiki, I had that reference banned from my school district :lol: :LOL:

Hamer had Floyds in 82.

I will say that boogie bodies had a part due to the meth head using them.
I know that wiki is suspect but all of those guys were players back then, especially Kramer and Charvel. Im not doubting what you said Hamer but the way I remember it, he came along after.

2 of my all time fave guitars were hamers. If they werent stolen, Id probably still have them

Kage

Dont get me wrong, I would sit there and drool at the Nightswans I could not afford back then.

When the JEM came out my head exploded.

I have the history of Ibanez book and there is a pic of the Kramer execs looking at the JEMs when the curtain dropped in 87 and it looks like they are ready to talk techocolor to the porcelain god :lol: :LOL:
 
Kramer was still making split headstock, aluminum neck guitars for years while Charvel was making super strats. Charvel had tons of figured wood guitars available in like 1980-1981. I don't think that Charvel discovered the cure for polio or invented space flight, but when you want to talk about super strats, it's all about Charvel and more specifically, the Grover Jackson run Charvel that got that whole thing rolling. We're talking in like 78, 79 and 80. Way before Ibanez got into it, way before Hamer started making anything other than Gibson inspired guitars (which ruled IMO). I mean, Ibanez was making their Roadstars for years while Charvel was rolling out hand built, custom shop super strats. I guess you could say the Roadstars were "Super strats" but there was nothing "super" about them. They were decent, production line guitars.

My knowledge (which I will admit is lacking) on the early Schecter stuff is that they used lots of Boogie Body and Mighty Mite stuff also, just like Charvel did. But they were very focused on really dark woods and natural finishes. really heavy strats with brass pickguards, mainly 3 single coils, brass knobs, brass nuts, brass switches. They were really, really pimped out strats that remninded me more of coffee tables. Charvel was doing a much more hot rodded, trail blazing approach. Lots of brass also, but not so blingy. More stripped down muscle car than Coupe De Ville with gold plated bumpers.

And for this reason, the rock guys gravitated to the Charvel shop. Van Halen, Lynch had an early Charvel V that he showed Randy Rhoads at a gig and Randy headed out to Charvel and Karl Sandoval (Charvel employee). San Dimas wasn't exactly local to any of those guys. It's way out in the middle of nowhere, and Schecter was located in the valley, much closer to all the action. So they headed to Charvel for a reason. Charvel's felt new and cutting edge.Early Schecters felt like a boat anchor crossed with a Fender strat.

So I'll say Tom Anderson was in that scene, but was an also ran. Just like Schecter was. I won't argue about Jol Dantzig. I love that guys work.
 
And regarding Kramer....... they came to the table two-three years after:

Rather than focus only on a year by year basis, This guide also will follow the different models under the Pacer name. Also it may be simplier to trace the dating of the line through it's different headstock designs as a starting point. With this in mind, here is a list of the different headstocks to serve as a reference. Serial numbers are also included.

1981-82 Strat copy headstocks (A8000s-B2000)
1982-84 "Classic" headstocks (B2000s-C5000s)
1984-late 85 "banana" or "hockeystick' headstocks (C5000s-E2000s)
1985-86 "Custom Shop" numbers (XXXX-XXXXX)
1986-90 "pointy droopy" headstocks(E2000s-G series)
1990-"hockey stick" heads again (these were sold as NOS parts at the close
out and mostly never associated with a serial number or neckplate).

Pacer Imperial (2 hums) 1981-1989
Pacer Special (1 hum) 1981-1985
Pacer Custom (mach 1)(2 hums) 1981-82
Pacer Standard (1 hum) 1981-82
Pacer Carrera (2 hums black) 1982-1986
"The Pacer" (SSS) 1982-1985
Pacer Deluxe (HSS) 1983-1987
Pacer Custom I (slantH-SS)1987-1989
Pacer Custom II (HSS)1987-1989
 
Well I will drop the cause and let Curt have the stage, I cannot really counter debate that well thought out almost Mentoneman'ish summation and concede to my west coast beatle driving brother. Owning three USA Pro Mod Charvels myself I do myself look at them as the start of something special.

As much as I wax poetic about Jol's Californians or LNG JEMs I am saving for a Chubtone approved Dinky Charvel CS.
 
TeleBlaster":rdx7vxc4 said:
Whoa...
There is a lot of confusion here. What is being missed is the difference between "decked" and "recessed".
Decked is as Vrad said "resting on the body", or not floating.
Yes I agree this sounds better.
You can have recessed and decked at the same time. See USA Peavey Wolfgang Standard for an example of this.
Recessed means that the bridge is lowered so that the saddle height is the same as a standard Strat bridge, roughly.
The OFR saddle height is much taller than a standard Strat trem or hard tail.
This can cause difficulty if your picking style employs resting your pinky on the body.
If you are accustomed to a Strat style bridge then play a Charvel style flat top guitar, you will find your pinky will be hanging in space,
desperately trying to plant on something, and you usually end up gripping the bridge pickup with your pinky.
Some may also experience discomfort and awkwardness in strumming from being accustomed to resting their forearm and wrist at a different angle above the bridge.
The cure is recessing the bridge.

One of the difficulties in the process is not so much the neck angle, which is easily adjustable with shims, but the neck height.
The same depth of cut from the top used to recess the bridge must be removed from the neck pocket if the same neck angle is desired.
You can remove less material from the neck pocket and increase the angle of attack of the neck, but the changed geometry in relation to the body is noticeable and clumsy for some players.
If your body has an access or angled heel, this may prohibit the removal of much material from the pocket. Pay attention to neck bolt length, don't want them pushing into the fretboard!!
If the strumming position is not difficult but you need the strings to be closer to the body to plant your pinky, then consider a finger rest.
This is the route I took, lots less involved than recessing the Floyd Rose bridge.

Wow! Finally, someone understands me. I have to have a recessed bridge to play my best. When I tell people that they think I'm mentally disabled. I try really hard to play non recessed (my ESP M1) and raised fixed bridges, I am just not comfortable and play sloppy with them. I LOVE Les Pauls and have avoided them like the plague due to my technique and the raised bridge. I would like to own an Axcess or at least try one out due to the recessed Floyd.

I palm mute a bunch so my palm rests a certain way with a recessed Floyd that I can not achieve with anything else. :confused:
 
When I had my San Dimas about eight months ago, I kept trying to pull up on the bar to get a bit more mileage out of the tremolo as far as range... however it was a useless pursuit and I opted to just deal with it being a 'dive only' bridge. I like guitars with recessed tremolos, but I don't really see a Charvel as the type of guitar that works with one... they're more like a modified Strat than anything to me in terms of their feature-set and how they feel, which would constitute a dive only tremolo unit.
 
Just a few pics to show where Charvel was when Kramer was still building those metal neck abominations and Ibanez was in between their cool lawsuit guitars and the several years later than this RG550.

1978
1978Charvel.jpg


1980
1980Charvel1.jpg


1981Charvel.jpg


This last pic especially shows a fairly common look for early Charvels and I feel that this whole vibe was certainly adopted by two of the most popular boutique guitar makers in the industry.

And here's what these late 70's/early 80's Schecters looked like:

1980
1980Schecter1.jpg


1980
1980Schecter.jpg


1979
1979Schecter.jpg


And finally a beautiful 1983 Schecter..... pretty similar to the 1981 Charvel pictured above?

schecter1983.jpg


And here's the kind of let's say "interesting" guitars Kramer was building at this time:

1979
1979kramer.jpg


And finally, a group of late 1980 built Charvels for the 1981 catalog. As far as super strats, hot-rodded (not just modified) and rock and roll, I think it's pretty safe to conclude that it was pretty much Charvel at the forefront:

1981charvelcatalog.jpg
 
I would guess Tom Anderson was involved with that 83 Schecter, note the double strap buttons.

Lynn Ellsworth/Boogie Bodies was the early supplier to Wayne Charvel. Grover Jackson really spearheaded the production of hot rodded Charvels by making them in house. And of course Schecter and Mighty Mite were early players in their own right. Some of those Schecters in that 2 page advert are amazing.

I always looked at Kramers as trailer park versions of what the others started but mass produced and marketed heavily.

I think Anderson and Suhr have upped the game at this point with their attention to detail.
 
mikehickey":11bw5lxt said:
I think Anderson and Suhr have upped the game at this point with their attention to detail.

I would have to agree with this. Their guitars have an almost Germanic precision and are flawless. I would never argue that. They are the most perfectly built super strats out there.
 
The Floyd Rose exclusive is what took Kramer off. Charvel/Jackson with Kahlers were not too sought after, many a good guitar ruined with those installed :)
 
Some good info here...I'll add my .02, some of which will be a repeat of some things said (kudos to Curt and Mike for well written posts). This isn't gospel, just how I understand things.

Several guys were all together at the forefront of making "parts"...Lynn Ellsworth (Boogie Bodies), Dave Schecter, and Ken Warmoth I believe was also around but I can't recall in what capacity (worked for Boogie perhaps?). Wayne Charvel had a repair shop where he sold parts made by Lynn and Dave. Dave's "right hand man" was Tom Anderson who joined the operation in '77...not long after Dave opened his shop in '76. When Wayne started building guitars he was still using Boogie and Schecter parts...it wasn't until Grover Jackson purchased the business in '78 that they began making their own stuff (but still sourced parts as well), as well as supplying parts to other companies (Dimarzio for one). This was a convoluted era and I'm not sure anyone will ever know exactly how things went down...too many people who are actually "in the know" seem to be less than forthright about what was going on.

As far as building an actual "super strat", Eddie Van Halen usually gets the credit for his Frankenstein guitar that was built using Boogie parts purchased from Wayne. IMO, this simply isn't where credit is due. Eddie had dropped a humbucker in a real Fender Strat prior to that and Hiram Bullock had an early 60's Strat that he purchased in the late 60's (or perhaps early 70's...I used to know but can't remember for sure) with two PAFs already installed by a previous owner. I have yet to see a hot-rodded Strat that predates Hiram's.

So who gets credit? Hiram was first notable to use one but he didn't even build it. Eddie is the first guy we know to have actually built one himself. Schecter is the first company to go to production using their own parts but as Curt noted, they were more about building a better, prettier Strat since Fender quality had plummeted earlier in the decade (although Schecter did build some "hot rods"). They actually gained most of their early popularity when Pete Townsend started using a HH Tele in '79. Wayne simply slapped parts guitars together. Grover built hot rodded Strats and really brought them to the masses.

So who's the godfather? I think its a matter of opinion, but I can certainly see why somebody would say Dave Schecter/Tom Anderson...Fender even tried to copy them by releasing Strats with brass parts in the early 80's. That said, I'll go with Grover Jackson as he's the one who's company (Charvel...later Charvel/Jackson) took the idea early on and ran with it. The Kramers, Ibanezes, ESPs, BC Richs (ST, Gunslinger), Hamers, etc were all Charvel wannabes. Additionally, Grover brought us the Jackson Soloist which IMO is first true superstrat in that it was something more than just a hot-rodded Fender copy (although Boogie built a few neck through Strats they were never popular and still retained typical Strat contours)...it was a complete functional rethinking of guitar design.

EDIT: I left Mighty Mite out of the early parts makers...they were definitely a key player as noted by Mike above (and I think that's where Ken Warmoth started IIRC). I believe Lynch's bengal was a MM body build completed by Karl Sandoval.
 
Asking what happened before Eddie is like asking what happened before the big bang....
 
mixohoytian":1f6jfi5p said:
Asking what happened before Eddie is like asking what happened before the big bang....
But I have a picture of what happened before Eddie ;)

hiram.jpg
 
rupe":2gmbbvak said:
Some good info here...I'll add my .02, some of which will be a repeat of some things said (kudos to Curt and Mike for well written posts). This isn't gospel, just how I understand things.

Several guys were all together at the forefront of making "parts"...Lynn Ellsworth (Boogie Bodies), Dave Schecter, and Ken Warmoth I believe was also around but I can't recall in what capacity (worked for Boogie perhaps?). Wayne Charvel had a repair shop where he sold parts made by Lynn and Dave. Dave's "right hand man" was Tom Anderson who joined the operation in '77...not long after Dave opened his shop in '76. When Wayne started building guitars he was still using Boogie and Schecter parts...it wasn't until Grover Jackson purchased the business in '78 that they began making their own stuff (but still sourced parts as well), as well as supplying parts to other companies (Dimarzio for one). This was a convoluted era and I'm not sure anyone will ever know exactly how things went down...too many people who are actually "in the know" seem to be less than forthright about what was going on.

As far as building an actual "super strat", Eddie Van Halen usually gets the credit for his Frankenstein guitar that was built using Boogie parts purchased from Wayne. IMO, this simply isn't where credit is due. Eddie had dropped a humbucker in a real Fender Strat prior to that and Hiram Bullock had an early 60's Strat that he purchased in the late 60's (or perhaps early 70's...I used to know but can't remember for sure) with two PAFs already installed by a previous owner. I have yet to see a hot-rodded Strat that predates Hiram's.

So who gets credit? Hiram was first notable to use one but he didn't even build it. Eddie is the first guy we know to have actually built one himself. Schecter is the first company to go to production using their own parts but as Curt noted, they were more about building a better, prettier Strat since Fender quality had plummeted earlier in the decade (although Schecter did build some "hot rods"). They actually gained most of their early popularity when Pete Townsend started using a HH Tele in '79. Wayne simply slapped parts guitars together. Grover built hot rodded Strats and really brought them to the masses.

So who's the godfather? I think its a matter of opinion, but I can certainly see why somebody would say Dave Schecter/Tom Anderson...Fender even tried to copy them by releasing Strats with brass parts in the early 80's. That said, I'll go with Grover Jackson as he's the one who's company (Charvel...later Charvel/Jackson) took the idea early on and ran with it. The Kramers, Ibanezes, ESPs, BC Richs (ST, Gunslinger), Hamers, etc were all Charvel wannabes. Additionally, Grover brought us the Jackson Soloist which IMO is first true superstrat in that it was something more than just a hot-rodded Fender copy (although Boogie built a few neck through Strats they were never popular and still retained typical Strat contours)...it was a complete functional rethinking of guitar design.

Learn something everyday, very cool post :thumbsup:
 
David Gilmour and Wayne Kramer both had humbuckers in strats as far back as 1968.
 
rupe":382gnmjl said:
mixohoytian":382gnmjl said:
Asking what happened before Eddie is like asking what happened before the big bang....
But I have a picture of what happened before Eddie ;)

Great info above Rupe. It seems like whoever you talk to was the one who was most responsible for the hot rodded strat. I remember back when I had a large Charvel collection and my GHS sales rep (Frank Green) came into the store and told me he was working on a book about Wayne Charvel. He asked if he could interview me and I said that I lived in Chicago in that time and there HAD to be many, much more knowledgeable guys to interview in So Cal. He then said he just wanted a perspective on what Charvel meant to me in that era. Then he wanted to photograph me for the book with some of my Wayne era Charvels and I said I don't have any Wayne era Charvels and that the oldest guitars I had were 1980. So I held a 1980 and Jay held a 1981 and they were in the book.

When I got the book, it was quite disappointing, but the guy who wrote the book was suich a nice guy that I never said anything to him about it.
 
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