Mark iic+ comparison by Ola

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bram576
  • Start date Start date
GJgo said:
That effort was first dialing in the C+, then recording the JP, listening to both in playback, and taking the time to dial the JP in as well as I could so that the recorded tones were comparable. That's as good as I got it that day. One of the problems with the JP is it has this boxy midrange that's basically impossible to dial out (without killing the tone) hence the weird GEQ settings. It's like when you do Pull Deep on an OS cab. Except I was on a trad cab. I suppose I could have gotten them to sound closer if I would have tried to match the C+ to the JP, you can always ADD boxy to a Mark..
Click to expand...
Pull Deep doesn't really make the tone boxy with a OS cab in my experience, it adds bass frequencies. It's the only way to make a Mark IIC+ or III sound fat IMO, otherwise they sound kinda wimpy.
 
Also, we need @VESmedic in this thread STAT btw. Let’s make this fun
 
PurityS.L.G said:
So now we are discussing the compression behavior of these amps huh? Between the Bad Monkey thread and this thread, the guitar community has gone fucking mad and bored.

Those amps are so close to each other, yet y’all wanna still want dissect on how they are far apart from each other. For what? To argue about feel? You’re not even in Ola’s shoes in that room to discuss the feel of those exact 3 amps but you can tell over a compressed YT video.

And there’s no need to argue or justify the integrity of the OG amp. Vintage gear will always fetch higher prices compared to newer counterparts so there is no need to defend.

Seriously, these discussions, arguments and debates are just getting stupid. How about playing more guitar and less bitching about parts tolerances on reissue versions of gear
Click to expand...
Some people are just really bored I guess? It's the only way to explain it. Nitpicking over the tiny details of tone is kinda silly when you really think about it.
 
Soundstorm said:
I had an '84 Mark IIC+. One thing that's probably not coming across so well in these ribbon mic recorded tracks are the raw in your face quality of the original. From what I gather the later offerings are all very compressed and filtered. The original 80's amps are very aggressive and on the bright/harsh side.
Click to expand...
First time I heard the IIC+ being described as harsh. I think they've got a very usable treble range. You can get them bright without things getting harsh, unlike the III which is just naturally kinda harsh, especially at band volumes.
 
All of them sounded great. I have owned two Mark IVs and a IIC+ and honestly couldn't hear a huge difference. Even if there were some differences they were barely perceptible. I think at this point if I went down the Mark series road again I would just get the JP2C. The dual EQ would be great!
 
I have yet to play the vii. Maybe will this week.Even as I own a mint iic+, I always come to back to my mkiii red stripe and blue stripe coli's.They just have " it ".
 
TheGreatGreen said:
The digital conversion process that happens when you send a reactive load signal to an interface where an IR gets applied is no different than the digital conversion process that happens when you take a fully mic'd rig and send it to your DAW.

IR's are linear. There is no additional "compression" inherently added to the signal just because you place the digital conversion stage slightly earlier in the signal chain. If anything, using a reactive load and IR's means the signal is LESS compressed than traditional setups because real speakers can compress when driven very hard, while IR's will not. At normal amp volumes though, that speaker compression is basically negligible.

Even most pros will tell you that a well made IR is basically indistinguishable from the real mic'd cab as long as you have a quality reactive load to put the amp through.

I think the reason so many amp demos show so many amps to be vanishingly similar to each other these days is because people are finally understanding how to properly eliminate variables and normalize everything BUT the amp, and when you do that, you come to understand the unpleasant truth that amps, as much as we all love them, probably simply matter a lot less than we think they do, relative to everything else in the chain.
Click to expand...
This. All of this. Should probably be a sticky.

Problem with I.Rs are, just like close mic (or poor phone) recordings is that you're going to hear a lot more terrible ones than good ones. The shear quantity of shit being uploaded everyday cannot even be calculated. The load is absolutely critical, and some of the most popular ones on the market are way off emulating the impedance curve of a cab. This hardly helps this situation, and is even worse when coupled with an unsuitable IR.

More important than the right gear is the talent involved. That Blake dude gets consistently great sounds with IRs, and conversely it's pretty easy to find terrible sounding miked clips.

RaceU4her said:
Think they all sound kind of equal which is not very good in this vid :dunno: Still not understanding using that sE mic which I’m going to blame, the petrucci vid sounded like shit, his mark vll demo sounded kind of unflattering and now this doesn’t sound very good to me, and I usually love Ola’s mesa tones
Click to expand...
Yeah odd choice using a ribbon mic alone. It could be that 'YouTube' tone is actually becoming its own thing in a way (I know, I know). I believe folks not used to hearing album or 'mix ready' tones isolated may be influencing this via their 'feedback'. I've noticed a lot of these comments in recent years, and it often goes something like this:

- High end/bite: it's too brittle, you wouldn't put your ears that close to a cab, it's fizzy
- Low end: there's no thump, it sounds small, my amp sounds huge 'in the room'
- Tones in a mix: you can't tell what going on with all that studio trickery

Listening on earbuds, phone or ipads problem isn't helping.

So it seems some content creators go for thicker, darker tones with no mix examples to appease this crowd. Fair enough, gotta keep folks happy. Personally I find these sounds flubby, distant and dull, which is not real useful.

Just a theory, not sure if anyone else would agree with this.
 
anomaly said:
First time I heard the IIC+ being described as harsh. I think they've got a very usable treble range. You can get them bright without things getting harsh, unlike the III which is just naturally kinda harsh, especially at band volumes.
Click to expand...
To be fair I was playing with it through an all EVM12L cab. Ice pick city. I should’ve just bought a different cab but I wanted to move on to new amps. But even with regular V30 cabs, they can get harsh real quick with all the pull options and graphic EQ that people like to utilize. In the end I would leave all the push/pull options alone and just dial it in like that, sounded best to my ears.
 
Last edited:
ZEN Amps said:
Yeah odd choice using a ribbon mic alone. It could be that 'YouTube' tone is actually becoming its own thing in a way (I know, I know). I believe folks not used to hearing album or 'mix ready' tones isolated may be influencing this via their 'feedback'. I've noticed a lot of these comments in recent years, and it often goes something like this:

- High end/bite: it's too brittle, you wouldn't put your ears that close to a cab, it's fizzy
- Low end: there's no thump, it sounds small, my amp sounds huge 'in the room'
- Tones in a mix: you can't tell what going on with all that studio trickery

Listening on earbuds, phone or ipads problem isn't helping.

So it seems some content creators go for thicker, darker tones with no mix examples to appease this crowd. Fair enough, gotta keep folks happy. Personally I find these sounds flubby, distant and dull, which is not real useful.

Just a theory, not sure if anyone else would agree with this.
Click to expand...


sounds like SLO owner complaints to me more than a youtube or earbuds issue, its mostly "in the room" guys that love them and those darker low mid heavy tones that fill the room up
 
anomaly said:
I remember a clip ultimatemetalguitartones posted, it was a re-amp of a IIC+, IVa and IVb, the waveforms on each clip were near identicle, so at least from the IIC+ to the IVb the compression level has been fairly consistent. I remember my III red stripe actually sounding more compressed on palm mutes than my IVb is. So I mean, ya, compression has been increasing in modern day amps, like the Mark V for instance is much more compressed than the previous Marks, but it's not always the case. I should note the IIC+ was released in 84 while the IVb was released in 93, so that's 9 years difference. I think the big changes came in the 00's.
Click to expand...
The mark IV rev b especially is really compressed which might work really well in a mix. I noticed the same with my buddy's jp. To be honest my 1984 2C+ sounds more open and raw and I can hear that in that comparison too.
 
psychodave said:
That was interesting. The original 2c+ was a bit clearer on the bottom end. the JP2C seemed to have a thicker sound. They VII was okay. Based on this and the options available, the JP2C wins. Keep in mind I owned a JP2C and several Mark 2C+ and ++ amps at the same time. I regret selling the JP2C.
Click to expand...
The JP is the most versatile mark. The low end is deeper / thicker indeed but in the room I still prefer the more raw and open tone of the original 2C+. As others mentioned newer amps are more compressed sounding that helps record better maybe but lack the raw character of the old ones.
 
Personally I feel Ola could have dialed the 2C+ better. The treble might be too high. It does give more gain when dialed at 10 but lowering it would make it even tighter. Presence maybe could have been set differently as well. Lastly , the og mark iic+ is less scooped than the more modern counterparts so I'm sure he could have set the 750 a tiny lower as well. Again on this video I think the 2C+ sounds more open. All great amps and with the crazy prices on the OG one I'd be happy with either of the two modern mark amps.
 
Idk. But the JP2C seems a bit too hairy on the lows and too full. Prefers the VII and the IIC+. Any idea if olas is a DRG? Or HRG?
 
ultimatemetalguitartones said:
Personally I feel Ola could have dialed the 2C+ better. The treble might be too high. It does give more gain when dialed at 10 but lowering it would make it even tighter. Presence maybe could have been set differently as well. Lastly , the og mark iic+ is less scooped than the more modern counterparts so I'm sure he could have set the 750 a tiny lower as well. Again on this video I think the 2C+ sounds more open. All great amps and with the crazy prices on the OG one I'd be happy with either of the two modern mark amps.
Click to expand...
This!
I don’t know where the idea that you need to crank the treble knob on IIC+ comes from. It really kills the dynamics of the amp and makes it thin and fizzy. Then he also pulls both bright switches which adds even more fizz. IIC+ have enough gain that you don’t need to crank anything, but instead make the controls work together to get a tight high gain tone.
Not a good representation of a IIC+ IMO.
 
Last edited:
peterc52 said:
Idk. But the JP2C seems a bit too hairy on the lows and too full. Prefers the VII and the IIC+. Any idea if olas is a DRG? Or HRG?
Click to expand...
According to this old forum post it’s an HRG.
ED168FDD-6FEA-4CF1-A0F7-FE90D6E50F1B.jpeg
 
The IIC+ is a bit bigger and the JPC2 is thinner and tighter; the VII is in between.
 
Soundstorm said:
Funny you say that, the JP2C has massive low end on my computer speakers/sub setup, vs the other two. The kind of low end that sounds cool for practice but is unusable in a mix.
Click to expand...
By those standards, Rectos and Ubers are unusable in a mix?
 
Rex Rocker said:
By those standards, Rectos and Ubers are unusable in a mix?
Click to expand...

I think he just means that the extra low end content would typically be EQ’d out of the track in a mix which means specifically the low end content is useless, not that the extra low end content would render the whole track unusable.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top