Mark VII vs IV vs IIC+ vs IIB comparo project!

  • Thread starter Thread starter GJgo
  • Start date Start date
Rex Rocker said:
Agreed. Please no iPhone clips. That really cheapens the vibe. And they don't do any better representation of the sound in the room either. JMO.


Agreed, but the majority of the people is either going to end up listening to these amps either in a recording, or in a live show mic'd.
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For sure. When I had my little "studio" set up, I almost always preferred a dynamic mic about an inch from the speaker between cone/cap. Sometimes I'd blend a Blue condenser in the room too. But every now and then, I'll make or come across an iPhone clip that really captures the tone well and is fairly accurate. I would obviously never use that for tracking guitars but for some demos, I like it.
 
WarHed said:
Would it be so hard to do a room/phone mic and close mic at the same time?
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Wouldn't be hard at all, though my video editing skills and equipment aren't really good enough to do what would need to be done.
 
So I just played a VII at GC this weekend! Had a chance to check one out while I was in the city to tide me over while I wait for the one that I ordered. I was playing through an LTD and into a (new stiff) Mesa 212 Recto cab so things I’m familiar with. First thoughts!!

The cleans, like all Marks, are good but nothing that would make me sell a good Fender.

Like the Baby Fives, Crunch is very cool and usable. I dig it. I think my Treble Dump trick might work here too like it did on my Five 35.

VII mode is cool and I agree, different from any other Mark tone. Also I agree it would probably kill for rhythm when boosted, so long as you are OK with low mids. It may hide in a mix a bit. All that being said, NO, it does not push air like a Recto and personally I wouldn’t consider it a replacement.

IIB mode is great! Captures the essence of the vintage amps. I still think the IIB is a better classic rock amp than the C+ and this channel really adds to the amp’s versatility. It’s by far the most raw and open channel on the amp which is super fun to play even at low gain!

IIC+ mode is the BEST version of this since the OG. If you really want the C+ sound and can’t afford an original, this will totally get the job done where the V and JP versions simply do not. Not to say they’re bad tones (well the V is lackluster), just that they can’t fill a real C+ void. Internet warriors can yell all they want, talk to any guy who has owned both at the same time and they’ll all say the same.

IV mode May give the OG a run for its money, I’ll know soon! It’s a great, super clanky and tight AF tone. Even if it doesn’t turn out to be quite as good as the OG first blush I’d call it a legit replacement.

Yes I would say that the VII has a good helping of the raw, chewy, 3D feels of the originals. The notes have great bloom & jump off the speaker at you. This is a place where the V and the JP fell unfortunately short and to me are much more 2D. All that being said, the VII is not as organic as the OGs- it still has the more modern processed sound of the modern Marks. It’s still a net win on tone and feel though, and would be the only modern Mark that I’d want to keep in my stable. For playing live I think the VII would be a no brainer.

To draw a comparison I’d say the VII vs. an OG is on par with the quality of the MultiWatt compared to its closest cousin the Rev F. Both very close but just slightly more processed than the OG. Close enough that only the real cork sniffers (takes one to know one) will sweat the difference.
 
Oh my, thanks for the in depth so far on your thoughts. Ton to go over myself before jumping on one. I'm surprised GC had one to test as they were all sold out the day after release on their website. Though looking just now they're back in stock. Thanks again, GJgo!
 
GJgo said:
I was over at my sound engineer's today. He's going to let me borrow his Radial DI boxes so in addition to "live" close mic & phone room clips I will also be able to fully reamp one of my band's songs using all the amps in question, which I believe will cover a ton of bases depending on what guys are looking for. This particular song has cleans, heavy rhythms & leads so many bases will be covered. Getting excited!
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Those are awesome
 
Update, the Mark IVb arrived the other day from the insanely generous @Tone Monster so all the OGs are assembled!!!

Also I just ordered a Radial Reamp Station so I should have everything I need for the whole host of VII vs OG demos once the VII arrives. Well, I could use some more video editing skills but c'est la vie..

For all the high gain parts the clear speaker choice from my stable is the 2001 V30 box. I'll have to decide if I want to leave that box hooked up for all tones, or if I should use the GB to T75 box for any cleans and low gains. I am leaning towards the GBs possibly w/o any GEQ engaged for these duties.

I'm planning on using the EMG81/85 guitar for high gain, and the SD JB/59 w/ coil split guitar for cleans & low gain. Only pedal that will be involved is a noise gate. There will be no trickery in post, however I haven't decided yet if I'll use some basic hi/lo pass filtering in post yet or let it all through. Input is welcome.

On the close micing I have to decide if I'm doing an E609 / SM57 blend, or if I'm doing a SM57 Fredman blend. I've gotten good tones from both in the past. It's important to me to sort out the setup in the beginning so I keep it consistent.
 
FYI for the comparison to the IV you'll want presence pulled and mid gain. The VII is pretty much spot on. Sounds (and feels) like you're just switching between 2 different Mark IVs or maybe slightly different settings.

Recorded maybe that will be different, but in person that's what it was like.

Also if you have a dark guitar, gun the gain on IIB mode, treble up high as well, and boost it. Suck all the 750 out. With my cabs and guitar (JP16) it had a VHT type thing going on reminiscent of Extreme mode from the V, just in terms of punch/clarity. It definitely does not work for every guitar though. It sounded like a dying cat with my Legs Paul.

One last thing. The Fader EQ is not the same as the IV. You'll probably wind up with the same shape, but a more/less extreme cut/boost on certain frequencies. I noticed the biggest difference on the 750, where I cut way less on the VII than the IV.
 
Anyway you know the settings to use on empress eq to copy the apex on justice for all
 
Candiria said:
FYI for the comparison to the IV you'll want presence pulled and mid gain. The VII is pretty much spot on. Sounds (and feels) like you're just switching between 2 different Mark IVs or maybe slightly different settings.

Recorded maybe that will be different, but in person that's what it was like.

Also if you have a dark guitar, gun the gain on IIB mode, treble up high as well, and boost it. Suck all the 750 out. With my cabs and guitar (JP16) it had a VHT type thing going on reminiscent of Extreme mode from the V, just in terms of punch/clarity. It definitely does not work for every guitar though. It sounded like a dying cat with my Legs Paul.

One last thing. The Fader EQ is not the same as the IV. You'll probably wind up with the same shape, but a more/less extreme cut/boost on certain frequencies. I noticed the biggest difference on the 750, where I cut way less on the VII than the IV.
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Since the amps don't have the same knobs, I was planning on setting the comparos up where I make a reasonable effort to get both amps to sound as close as I can to each other as recorded.
 
Techdeth said:
Anyway you know the settings to use on empress eq to copy the apex on justice for all
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I've gotten away from using the PEQs and am back to the onboard GEQs only. Two reasons.
- While the PEQs are fun in the room, I find that on the microphone the differences aren't as significant.
- The modern PEQs I had access to sound a little processed.

So in the spirit of actually comparing amps & not signal chains, I'll keep these all amp.
 
One thing I ask? please don't dial them in all exactly the same, dial them in where they each sound their best to your ears. But maybe try to keep them in the same ballpark, ya know what I mean? Like the treble control might be 7 on one and 8 on another and so on... same with the GEQ.
 
anomaly said:
One thing I ask? please don't dial them in all exactly the same, dial them in where they each sound their best to your ears. But maybe try to keep them in the same ballpark, ya know what I mean? Like the treble control might be 7 on one and 8 on another and so on... same with the GEQ.
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Agreed. I try to just set up amps to sound as good as I can and then compare them
 
GJgo said:
I've gotten away from using the PEQs and am back to the onboard GEQs only. Two reasons.
- While the PEQs are fun in the room, I find that on the microphone the differences aren't as significant.
- The modern PEQs I had access to sound a little processed.

So in the spirit of actually comparing amps & not signal chains, I'll keep these all amp.
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Agreed on the modern PQ’s. Haven’t liked any so far. The vintage rack ones I’ve got can be very cool, but not for doing what the GEQ on the marks do IME. I just like them as boosts like how use an od pedal
 
anomaly said:
One thing I ask? please don't dial them in all exactly the same, dial them in where they each sound their best to your ears. But maybe try to keep them in the same ballpark, ya know what I mean? Like the treble control might be 7 on one and 8 on another and so on... same with the GEQ.
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Over the years in finding "my sound" I've come to the point where I dial the II, III and IV all essentially the same, with just small tweaks for the room / day. I've even come to the point where my recorded & live settings are the same thing. One of these things was realizing the Marks cut the mix better when the 80 is on the middle line.
 
People that base opinion on clips or that are experts on a particular amp having never played one...good stuff...LOL!
 
The Wiz holds it's own...really like the open raw but tight and gritty tone. I'd use any one of them..
 
GJgo said:
Over the years in finding "my sound" I've come to the point where I dial the II, III and IV all essentially the same, with just small tweaks for the room / day. I've even come to the point where my recorded & live settings are the same thing. One of these things was realizing the Marks cut the mix better when the 80 is on the middle line.
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Cool, I have pretty similar live settings for a III and a IV as well, except the presence. Ya, for loud live playing I would have the 80hz just above the middle line. Then a kinda shallow V for the rest of it, and bump the 2200 up a little. Presence at 6 or 7, that's with the IV. For recorded tones anything kinda goes, but it's similar.
 
pipboy90 said:
I’ve had a MTL Mk2 in the room and used it through a Suhr Reactive Load. Couldn’t get a sound out of it that I liked. Wizards just aren’t for me. Don’t bother if you haven’t heard any clips that you liked, b/c it doesn’t get any better in person.

*The* most overhyped amps on the planet imo. If they weren’t so expensive maybe they wouldn’t be.
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Those amps are performance amplifiers.
I had 6 Wizards at onetime and multiple 4X12’s.
The truth also is, they’re hard to get around on.
The kind of fight & give that needs massive volume.
Not to push a sale but the Mezza ES M’Zero
will destroy ANY Wizard on Earth.
Not even close.
Maybe one sound but that’s it.
There are 3 to 4 amazingly useful tones
and the feel is mindblowing-
However you want it.
While just as loud as a Wiz, but the masters work fine for house jammin’.
Sounds great with any guitar.
It’s SUPPOSED to for that kind of cash man!!!
 
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