Mark VII vs IV vs IIC+ vs IIB comparo project!

  • Thread starter Thread starter GJgo
  • Start date Start date
Like what you did! I'm still loving and messing around with my VII. Lately, I've been playing the VII mode and like you said it's a completely different sound if I could put it that way for the mark series to me. I feel the VII mode is geared towards 7 and 8 string guitars or heavily detuned 6 strings. The gain structure for the VII mode is different than what I am used to for a Mark amp. On the VII mode I feel that once the gain gets past 10'o clock it gets ridiculous.
 
Believe it or not, the best tone I found in the band mix for lower tuned guitars was C+ mode but with the gain turned way down. Overall I'd say the cut in the (metal) mix was better with the gain turned down in any of the modes.
 
GJgo said:
Believe it or not, the best tone I found in the band mix for lower tuned guitars was C+ mode but with the gain turned way down. Overall I'd say the cut in the (metal) mix was better with the gain turned down in any of the modes.
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I can see that. The 7 and 8 strings didn't sound bad on the IIC mode. For that channel I thought it was the best of the modes for the 7 and 8 strings. I just don't want to mess with the settings for now on channel three because I have it dialed in pretty good for my six strings tuned to E flat and D standard.
 
Alright guys, here's the VII vs VII vs VII reamp. Note the VII mode is boosted to make it a fair fight. Notes as per usual in the more info section. Enjoy!

 
Alright guys here's the LAST ONE of the series. Today we're comparing the best of the BOOSTED Marks. We have the VII in VII mode (which really lends itself well to boosting), the III+, the C+ and the B+. All boosted with my OD1X.

My thoughts? I think this may be the most important comparo I've done here in terms of what I'm looking for in my band's tone & sound mix. While boosting the Mark does lose a little clarity, I prefer it this way for the levels of aggression I want in our songs.

What's your favorite tone here & why?

 
GJgo said:
Alright guys here's the LAST ONE of the series. Today we're comparing the best of the BOOSTED Marks. We have the VII in VII mode (which really lends itself well to boosting), the III+, the C+ and the B+. All boosted with my OD1X.

My thoughts? I think this may be the most important comparo I've done here in terms of what I'm looking for in my band's tone & sound mix. While boosting the Mark does lose a little clarity, I prefer it this way for the levels of aggression I want in our songs.

What's your favorite tone here & why?

Click to expand...

Mark iii works the best in the mix. That extra harshness cuts through and you can’t hear it in the mix. By itself you can, and it might get old if you’re just playing by yourself, but that’s why you mix with everything going and don’t mix in solo. The mark VII tames that boxiness a bit more than the jp2c and V did for sure. The IIc+, and IIb totally have the box thing. 340-500 hz. Job well done with these.

Only thing I’d suggest in the future is maybe start with a blind test. And I may have missed that somewhere? Whether anyone wants to admit it or not there is so much damn confirmation bias with the IIc+, probably on par with when people do a shootout of a modeler and a real amp but reveal which is which.
 
just listening on my Bluetooth speaker while I’m taking a break from yard work…

I like the extra heft on the IIB and that laser tone from the 3+ is cool (though not really my thing). Wouldn’t have minded some more low end on the GEQ of the c+. VII mode is so different from the others that it doesn’t seem like it belongs in the fight maybe? You can kind of hear in all the clips that the 7 in general has its own voice- sounds “new”.

Which reminds me of something I’ve been thinking about: the effect of age on the sound of an amp. Old amps just sound more worn in- almost always. Is it the age of the components or the use/wear from play? If you built 2 identical amps thirty years ago and played the shit out of one and hardly ever on the other- would they sound different? I suspect yes. I’m fuckin rambling I need to get back to work.
 
Bxlxaxkxe said:
just listening on my Bluetooth speaker while I’m taking a break from yard work…

I like the extra heft on the IIB and that laser tone from the 3+ is cool (though not really my thing). Wouldn’t have minded some more low end on the GEQ of the c+. VII mode is so different from the others that it doesn’t seem like it belongs in the fight maybe? You can kind of hear in all the clips that the 7 in general has its own voice- sounds “new”.

Which reminds me of something I’ve been thinking about: the effect of age on the sound of an amp. Old amps just sound more worn in- almost always. Is it the age of the components or the use/wear from play? If you built 2 identical amps thirty years ago and played the shit out of one and hardly ever on the other- would they sound different? I suspect yes. I’m fuckin rambling I need to get back to work.
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I have been thinking about this "aging" of the amp thing myself.

I have been trying to play more of my amps lately to get them at least out of the "BRAND NEW" sounding stage.

I realize that tubes as they age (get used) can also help to make the amp sound better (until they get to that "need to replace" stage).
 
GJgo said:
Alright guys here's the LAST ONE of the series. Today we're comparing the best of the BOOSTED Marks. We have the VII in VII mode (which really lends itself well to boosting), the III+, the C+ and the B+. All boosted with my OD1X.

My thoughts? I think this may be the most important comparo I've done here in terms of what I'm looking for in my band's tone & sound mix. While boosting the Mark does lose a little clarity, I prefer it this way for the levels of aggression I want in our songs.

What's your favorite tone here & why?

Click to expand...


In this order:

III+
IIB+
IIC+
VII

There’s a boxy character and lack of gain I don’t like on the IIC+. Honestly is something wrong with it? Or maybe I’m just used to IIC++ clips.

The VII has a tapered top end that isn’t as aggressive as the others. I just didn’t like it in this clip.

IIB+ just sounded like a IIC+ but without a bump in a certain frequency that seemed to stand out in the C+. IIB+ just sounded better recorded without that bump.

III+ sounded the most gained out and pissed off. I just preferred the mids and overall tone more.
 
Bram576 said:
Mark iii works the best in the mix. That extra harshness cuts through and you can’t hear it in the mix. By itself you can, and it might get old if you’re just playing by yourself, but that’s why you mix with everything going and don’t mix in solo. The mark VII tames that boxiness a bit more than the jp2c and V did for sure. The IIc+, and IIb totally have the box thing. 340-500 hz. Job well done with these.

Only thing I’d suggest in the future is maybe start with a blind test. And I may have missed that somewhere? Whether anyone wants to admit it or not there is so much damn confirmation bias with the IIc+, probably on par with when people do a shootout of a modeler and a real amp but reveal which is which.
Click to expand...
I actually agree with everything you've said here EXCEPT the IIB box comment. It may be how it's EQd here, however that amp is the one that to me really does NOT have it and is the ultimate destroyer of worlds. In person it wipes the floor with any amp I've ever played.

In hindsight, I agree I should have done a blind test. Oops. Maybe in the future.

Right now, the first three songs we've recorded for the album use the boosted C+. We're about to reamp the next 4 songs and i have to decide a) do I want to stick with that for continuity or b) do I want to use some of these other amps to give the album some slightly different flavors? I can't decide.
 
Bxlxaxkxe said:
Which reminds me of something I’ve been thinking about: the effect of age on the sound of an amp. Old amps just sound more worn in- almost always. Is it the age of the components or the use/wear from play? If you built 2 identical amps thirty years ago and played the shit out of one and hardly ever on the other- would they sound different? I suspect yes. I’m fuckin rambling I need to get back to work.
Click to expand...
Well, I have two C+ that are essentially identical both having been serviced by Mike. One is pristine & the other has been ridden hard. The recorded tone is identical, however, the rougher one I thought had better feels- at least at the same settings. So, the other day I set out to A/B them by turning knobs to see if I could dial them in closer and sure enough I could. The one that "felt" better was a little brighter and had less gain, so once I got them matched up by ear & not by settings, they were practically identical in feels as well. FWIW.
 
GJgo said:
I actually agree with everything you've said here EXCEPT the IIB box comment. It may be how it's EQd here, however that amp is the one that to me really does NOT have it and is the ultimate destroyer of worlds. In person it wipes the floor with any amp I've ever played.

In hindsight, I agree I should have done a blind test. Oops. Maybe in the future.

Right now, the first three songs we've recorded for the album use the boosted C+. We're about to reamp the next 4 songs and i have to decide a) do I want to stick with that for continuity or b) do I want to use some of these other amps to give the album some slightly different flavors? I can't decide.
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Your B is a killer amp. I dug the one I had, super good tones to be had. I’d stick with continuity, just sounds more professional, but that’s just me.
 
glpg80 said:
In this order:

III+
IIB+
IIC+
VII

There’s a boxy character and lack of gain I don’t like on the IIC+. Honestly is something wrong with it? Or maybe I’m just used to IIC++ clips.

The VII has a tapered top end that isn’t as aggressive as the others. I just didn’t like it in this clip.

IIB+ just sounded like a IIC+ but without a bump in a certain frequency that seemed to stand out in the C+. IIB+ just sounded better recorded without that bump.

III+ sounded the most gained out and pissed off. I just preferred the mids and overall tone more.
Click to expand...
Boxy with less gain pretty much IS the C+. I think that what 90% of people, because Jaymz, are thinking about when they THINK C+ is ACTUALLY C++. (And it's still boxy in comparison without extra EQing, just more gain and saturation..)

Also the V30s accentuate this with the C+. T75s are more neutral in this regard, but it's easy for them to disappear in the mix without re-EQing.

All my vintage Marks are Mike B. serviced & 100%. I'm too OCD for anything else.

All that said the III+ is becoming my favorite in the mix as well. It just seems in the right space.
 
listening again i still like the Vll and the iib in this particular song, i like the aggression of the iii and think it would work better with a little faster tempo but its just a little thin. the iic+ is just too boxy in this one. im sure with a little eq though you could get them all real close
 
Bram576 said:
Mark iii works the best in the mix. That extra harshness cuts through and you can’t hear it in the mix. By itself you can, and it might get old if you’re just playing by yourself, but that’s why you mix with everything going and don’t mix in solo. The mark VII tames that boxiness a bit more than the jp2c and V did for sure. The IIc+, and IIb totally have the box thing. 340-500 hz. Job well done with these.

Only thing I’d suggest in the future is maybe start with a blind test. And I may have missed that somewhere? Whether anyone wants to admit it or not there is so much damn confirmation bias with the IIc+, probably on par with when people do a shootout of a modeler and a real amp but reveal which is which.
Click to expand...
I agree with you on this (about the Mark III). Speaking of which, I saw your post for the Mark III Black Dot for sale, but for some reason (perhaps because I'm a new member) I wasn't about to reply to it. Is it still available? As for the differences between the real IIC+ and a modeler. I have a genuine Mark IIC+ and when I compared it to the Axe-Fx III Mark 2 Turbo version I have, it was about 90% the same. Maybe it is my own confirmation bias, but the real amp just has that extra warmth and feel.
 
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