Marshall Super Lead with Mods - Too Bright

  • Thread starter Thread starter Cap217
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Friedman doesn't have a normal configuration for the Greenbacks and V30s. Most cabs have an X arrangement, corner to corner. Friedman has the speakers in rows.

G12M on top.
V30 below.

If you have that going on you might want to try X before considering 4x12s of Greenbacks.
 
Its the damm cab....
Try one with G12Ms...

Friedman amps are way smoother than marshalls...
All I can hear in this clip you posted is the V30....
 
Cap217 said:
Correct. This is why in the end I am going to just leave it alone and use it in the studio for what it is. It sounds great, just need to find some different speakers maybe and a darker pickup.
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Duncan Custom is a less bright choice than the JB. If you have a Mesa V30 cab they will be darker than the Friedman V30s…but I’d consider grabbing a pair of GBs and throwing them in place of the V30s.
If you can find them, G12 65s are a great match too.
 
Listening to the clip, it doesnt sound bright to me. Like all these amps the bass control is not really a bass control. I think of it as more of how tight or loose the amp is.

Im not a fan of the evh tone thing, sounds like what this is supposed to be? Was he using a variac with it?

Other than that, try some different speakers or cab. That always makes a pretty big difference.
 
I figured after reading the 1st post, you were talking about a Rockstah Mod5 modded Marshall. I have a Granger Plexi with the MOD5, and it's voiced very bright with loads of hi-end harmonic complexity and I've played loud rock guitar for 47 years now, and it's f'ing bright. . .. BUT It sounds like Van Halen's 1st few albums. Definitely sounds better with the ppiv mv turned up too... . As for changing the amp, I have no advice, but I do know if the right person plays these they'll sound unreal. I'm not sure I'm the right person, but I love the amp, and I'm like Braintheory on here where I have about 25 amps or so,, and I think I'm gonna play mine tonight now :) Good luck

Eric
 
ericb said:
I figured after reading the 1st post, you were talking about a Rockstah Mod5 modded Marshall. I have a Granger Plexi with the MOD5, and it's voiced very bright with loads of hi-end harmonic complexity and I've played loud rock guitar for 47 years now, and it's f'ing bright. . .. BUT It sounds like Van Halen's 1st few albums. Definitely sounds better with the ppiv mv turned up too... . As for changing the amp, I have no advice, but I do know if the right person plays these they'll sound unreal. I'm not sure I'm the right person, but I love the amp, and I'm like Braintheory on here where I have about 25 amps or so,, and I think I'm gonna play mine tonight now :) Good luck

Eric
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I agree. Like I said, the guy who owned this before used this as his main amp and he made it sound great with the presence and treble at 7. I am going to just keep it in the collection and use it when needed. There are people out there who want this mod by Mark and they are hard to find.
 
Cap217 said:
I agree. Like I said, the guy who owned this before used this as his main amp and he made it sound great with the presence and treble at 7. I am going to just keep it in the collection and use it when needed. There are people out there who want this mod by Mark and they are hard to find.
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Mine was on a new Granger 50 watt Plexi, and there are youtube videos of the guy who sold it to me playing Van Halen with a drummer and it sounds spot on. . Same with when Mark Abrahamium(Rockstah) used to post clips. I have a bunch of old Marshalls and ALL of mine if they were unmodded were unreally bright (my 1st one's start with a 1971 Superlead) and I've never heard any 60's Marshalls. . I do have a Series1 THD Plexi amp too and that is similarly bright, and had a Plexi RI and that was too (before being modded differently) . . I think the bright amps kick ass for recording and with guys whose playing style works. . I'm more a chewy amp kind of player (I use Splawns at my gigs) , but my Mod5 is 1 of my best sounding amps . I will also say I have a Komet Concorde Clone and 1 of the 1st Ceriatone Liverpool clones and had their Express clone and they're all bright as hell. the only amps where the hi-end is as 'rich' sounding as the MOD5 though were the Trainwreck clones

p.s. I just played mine for quite awhile.. Since the inputs are tied together definitely have to have the right mix for it to not be bright. . The Treble input is way bright, but mix in the normal and it's fine. I also did find the ppiv master just fine. . I used my early Alex attenuator with it too, and if I used the attenuator I'd keep the PPIV-MV up all the way, but without the attenuator the ppiv-mv works real well. It sounds great but is just way different than all of my other jcm800's, hi-gain modded amps,etc (Fortin, Gower, Egnater,etc) Anyway, hope you can enjoy it, or otherwise there are loads of alternatives of course)

Eric
 
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Quick question for the hell of it. With the fryette ps100 you can select different input and output ohm. Would this make sense for me to run a 4 ohm out of amp to fryette then 16 into cab and be able to see the effect of the nfb ohm differences? Seems like a win win and no messing with the amp.
 
I have a bright 1974 MKII Superlead. If it sounds to bright, I adjust the tone control on the guitar until it sounds good. Done.

I wish I would have done that years ago instead of trying to mod the amp / change values to get rid of the brightness.

I did, however, remove the 5000pF bright cap on the vol.1 pot and that helps if you don't crank the volume.

I just recently put the 5000pF cap back on for fun and out of boredom and that cap adds a little extra sizzle with the volume between 6 & 8.
 
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General question on NFB. It seems that 100k/4ohm is standard on the 70s marshalls and 47k/8 ohm is what a lot of hot rodded amps use. This is assuming all have .68 on the 3rd stage.

If you take all things equal, what are the differences in sound of 100/4 vs 47/8? I know voltages come into play here and I dont quite grasp those effects. I also see some 39k/8. What differences happen with that combination?
 
100/4 - JCM800 value. Much less NFB. More bright and raw. Pretty sure I’ve seen quite a few 100/8 as well. But I can’t remember for sure.

47/8 - A lot more NFB. darker, smoother, tighter.

39/8 - even darker, smoother and tighter than 47/8.

I don’t feel that the 3rd stage bypass directly influences the builder’s NFB tap selection. It may be a part of the total equation, but not solely a determining factor.
 
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Cap217 said:
Quick question for the hell of it. With the fryette ps100 you can select different input and output ohm. Would this make sense for me to run a 4 ohm out of amp to fryette then 16 into cab and be able to see the effect of the nfb ohm differences? Seems like a win win and no messing with the amp.
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Changing internal NFB taps will have way more effect than any of this
 
RedPlated said:
100/4 - JCM800 value. Much less NFB. More bright and raw. Pretty sure I’ve seen quite a few 100/8 as well. But I can’t remember for sure.

47/8 - A lot more NFB. darker, smoother, tighter.

39/8 - even darker, smoother and tighter than 47/8.

I don’t feel that the 3rd stage bypass directly influences the builder’s NFB tap selection. It may be a part of the total equation, but not solely a determining factor.
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Was the amp wattage a factor in which tap/resistor was used? Seems like a 4-tube amp would be feeding back a lot more signal than a 2-tube amp and it's the same PI. Maybe the 4-tubes NEED more signal so it all balances out?

It may have been mentioned but it seems the lower the amount of NFB the more you need to crank the amp to get the best tones. At low volumes the higher NFB seems to work better.

The 100k/4 arrangement is usually too bright/raw for me.
 
This is what I do and it's about the easiest thing there is. Move it from wherever it is, to the other taps. Experiment.
 
SpiderWars said:
Was the amp wattage a factor in which tap/resistor was used? Seems like a 4-tube amp would be feeding back a lot more signal than a 2-tube amp and it's the same PI. Maybe the 4-tubes NEED more signal so it all balances out?

It may have been mentioned but it seems the lower the amount of NFB the more you need to crank the amp to get the best tones. At low volumes the higher NFB seems to work better.

The 100k/4 arrangement is usually too bright/raw for me.
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If 100/4 is too bright which a lot agree with. Then we go to 47/4 but is 100/8 the same thing? Or is there an advantage either way of 47/4 vs 100/8.
 
SpiderWars said:
Was the amp wattage a factor in which tap/resistor was used? Seems like a 4-tube amp would be feeding back a lot more signal than a 2-tube amp and it's the same PI. Maybe the 4-tubes NEED more signal so it all balances out?

It may have been mentioned but it seems the lower the amount of NFB the more you need to crank the amp to get the best tones. At low volumes the higher NFB seems to work better.

The 100k/4 arrangement is usually too bright/raw for me.
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I know all the 100 and 50w 800's I've had and have been in have had 100k nfb resistors. As far as the taps, some have been 4 and some 8 but I'm having a hard time remembering if 50 vs 100 made a difference in the selection. I will have to pull up some photos and check. I usually take plenty of pics when I first get an amp and all the way through the process of working on them.
 
Cap217 said:
If 100/4 is too bright which a lot agree with. Then we go to 47/4 but is 100/8 the same thing? Or is there an advantage either way of 47/4 vs 100/8.
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They're not the same. The 16ohm tap has twice the voltage that the 4 ohm does. Here's a NFB calculator. Don't worry about filling in numbers you don't know with it. Just vary the resistor and tap and compare the results.
 
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