Maybe i need a modeler and SS power amp?

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what are you running the helix through? This is where I get confused… this dude is using a power stage 700w, how is that not moving air?? My vh140c is 140w SS and it moves air as much or more than any of my tube amps.
I've put my Helix through tiny headrush FRFRs...As well as a friends high powered SS power amp through a pair of Mesa cabs. Yes, one is much louder than the other...But it still doesn't feel the same as a tube amp to me, and to my ears. Many will disagree.
 
Sold off all my modelers except one: my Boss SY-1000 that I use direct with my GK equipped guitars.

I have an HX-Effects and Catalyst 100; I use the HX-Effects to control the amp over MIDI (change amp presets, turn the amp boost on/off) in 4CM. I don't use the effects on the amp, with the exception of a little ambient reverb,

Works great, sounds great, versatile rig and not expensive. Got both new on sale, probably under $1K total.

Outside of those, and my software plug-ins, I don't use many effects with my tube amps; occasionally my Source Audio UltraWave or EQ2.
 
I've been eyeing the Vesta and Ceres. Have tube amps and an FM3, but have been curious about those KSR preamp pedals for a flyrig. Do you run it direct using something like Two Notes Cab M+?
I have taken the Ceres and Vesta and replaced the "amps" in my Fractal Audio devices (I still own them all) using the effects loop option on them and I was blown away at the difference of feel AND tone from using those two pedals over the amps.

Even though they sound great with IR's, I still prefer to use them without IR's and going direct into a tube power amp or return of a tube amp (so no need for the cab modeling).

You get that tube amp tone and feel that many people say is missing when you connect a modeler directly to a tube power amp.
 
I've been eyeing the Vesta and Ceres. Have tube amps and an FM3, but have been curious about those KSR preamp pedals for a flyrig. Do you run it direct using something like Two Notes Cab M+?

Vesta > FX > Sampson SS amp > 12" guitar cab
 
Once I got a modeler, I sold all my amps and cabs. There is a bit of fell that is missing to me but love the e portability and tone from modelers!
 
Try an FM out, run it through one of your tube amps fx loops. Then through a small ss power amp; or your 140c fx loop. If after that you feel it sounds good enough then feel free to sell.
I’ll bet there’s a good chance you will sell everything, since you feel a DSL sounds as good as a Plexi.
We all hear things differently.
 
I think at the end of the day, everything is trade off in some shape or form. For me personally, I just feel the least trade off with the axe fx verses a “real amp” than I ever have with anything else. Still, it’s reallyyy hard for me to justify SOME of my amps at this point.

I will say, micing it up with a real cab is where it really got crazy for me. I AB’d my rev F against the recto 1 orange modern, and it was dead on. I mean dead freakin on. Not almost, not sort of. It was there. Of course, the cab is such a huge part of the sound, and alot of the factors we associate as a compromise with digital products are removed ( real power amp, cab, real speakers moving air etc). But still, even then, if I can get it that close and for real, doesn’t that justify it even more for me to use the axe? I dunno, I struggle with that one, because on one hand I think we are always questioning our own ears ( I know I do) and we also have biases. How strong those pull you depends on the individual. I for one, especially playing with the vintage amps lately like the brownface fender concerts and the 1970 plexi model, could never justify owning those amps after the tones im hearing with this thing. Leon Todd’s videos really help, and his “ pimp my plexi” video on the axe really was insane when I did those simple little tweaks myself on the plexi models… the variac and supply sag was almost jaw dropping. I mean it was THAT sound, and that really cool percussive yet squishy under the fingers thing that plexis do, it was all there.


I ( obviously) love real amps, and own them, I just have never been one to be “ im this or that” when it comes to guitar equipment. If it sounds good, AND it’s convenient, well shit, that’s awesome. The reality is, amazing guitar tones were gotten on records long before the axe fx or the kemper even existed: to assume that we haven’t gotten any better in modeling since the early days would obviously be ridiculous. So once again of course, it’s more than just the gear as we all know. And people love solid state tones from the early 90s death metal records, I know I do. Are we really gonna say the axe fx doesn’t sound as good as a Randall rg100 or a Marshall 8100? Something to think about.


I think it’s like anything, if you sit there and analyze the shit out of it for hours TRYING to find something to complain about or different than the real thing, you will. It’s human nature. But if you wanna play guitar and get seriously amazing tones quickly with very little tweaking and consistency, it’s hard to beat, and honestly that’s STILL selling it short to me of how insanely good it is. I know I’ve wanted to play guitar lately more than I ever have in a long time, and I think there’s something to be said for that too. Tones inspire us to play a certain way etc, there’s no doubt about it.

On the loadbox and amp vs the axe I will vehemently disagree personally on it being better than the axe. I do not think it is, and I know quite a few here and elsewhere that will say the same but maybe not publicly. The cab resonance is so crucial to me in how the low end sits, and I never got anything close to the axe as far as “ realness” in that are vs a loadbox and a real amp. Especially with certain amps like the recto. Like not even fucking close. I’ve tried them all. as far as I’m concerned until the technology catches up on load boxes in a way that they don’t fuck with the amp in someway ( they do, I’m convinced of it at this point after years of analyzing these things) and the response of it, the axe wins for me, easily. Just my opinions.
 
I have real amps that I love, but I also love the axe-fx. I think people get way too hung up on does it sound/feel/taste/screw like my real tube amp. Truth be told, I've had two identical tube amps multiple times and never did I think both amps sounded exactly alike, even with the same settings. I've done that with Dr. Zs, Oranges, Bogners, Friedmans. They sound super close, but never exactly the same to my ears. My point is that it doesn't matter if axe-fx or any other modeler for the matter precisely replicates the sound of a legendary tube amp, because even legendary tube amps don't replicate themselves perfectly. The modelers sound really good and if you are looking for the sound of a legendary amp, these are a great starting point and the only thing closer will be the exact amp you after.

For those saying they dont quite sound/feel real, I understand that feeling because I have felt it, but I found that it is a matter of your listening device. Headphones will always sound different than open air, studio monitors/pa speakers etc. can sound fine but a real frfr made a huge difference to how much I enjoy the axe. All the harmonics I thought werent there, they were there... All the bottom end I thought wasnt there, it was there... It just wasnt coming out of my pa speakers.
 
I've put my Helix through tiny headrush FRFRs...As well as a friends high powered SS power amp through a pair of Mesa cabs. Yes, one is much louder than the other...But it still doesn't feel the same as a tube amp to me, and to my ears. Many will disagree.
Same here, I use my Helix presets through my Headrush powered cabs sometimes. I also have 2 Fender modeling amps I use sometimes. But, as a 50+ year TUBE fan, I know that tube amps feel and play differently LIVE than any digital modeler. Although I may be able to mimic a particular sound digitally, it's just not the same. Lately, I prefer a small tube amp feeding a Capture X (with my actual speaker & cab IR) to feed the house and monitors. It just "feels" and "plays" better when I keep tubes in the loop. (in my humble opinion). So, I'm just not ready to sell my tube amps yet.

P.S. I'm still hoping GE follows through with their Pandemic "USA Tube Factory" promise. There are only so many good vintage tubes left out there, and the Chinese stuff is getting sketchier and sketchier every day. Also, depending on Eastern Europe is not a good long term answer.
 
Try an FM out, run it through one of your tube amps fx loops. Then through a small ss power amp; or your 140c fx loop. If after that you feel it sounds good enough then feel free to sell.
I’ll bet there’s a good chance you will sell everything, since you feel a DSL sounds as good as a Plexi.
We all hear things differently.


not sure when i ever said a DSL is "as good" as a plexi, what i say is the DSL is a fine versatile marshall that with a good boost hangs just fine with any of my "better" amps which ill stand by, and thats usually after you bash the DSL as some sort of mediocre amp. if you cant sound good through a DSL youre not gonna sound good through a plexi either :dunno:
 
not sure when i ever said a DSL is "as good" as a plexi, what i say is the DSL is a fine versatile marshall that with a good boost hangs just fine with any of my "better" amps which ill stand by, and thats usually after you bash the DSL as some sort of mediocre amp. if you cant sound good through a DSL youre not gonna sound good through a plexi either :dunno:
A DSL can provide an affordable Plexi'ish feel, and provides a LOT more flexibility. No, it's NOT a Plexi, but it's close enough for an old-timer like me. My "lowly" DSL20CR with a NEO Creamback sounds GREAT to me, and is GREAT pedal platform, in my opinion.
My-Marshall.jpg
 
As much as I love my Fractal stuff, I’m still either going to setup a rig with my Deluxe Reverb/pedals or trade the DRRI for a PRS HDRX20 (unless I can snag a Marshall SV20 for cheap). I couldn’t imagine ever being “Only this from now until I die”, I love gear too much for that. Even if they just sit in the corner and get used on rare occasions, more is more.

Also, FWIW, I use both a Duncan PS170 and a TC BAM200 to power my 2x12’s, the Duncan was $400 and the TC was $160, if I were to buy them both again I’d get 2 BAM’s. I can’t detect any tonal differences between the two at flat settings and I dig the way the EQ on the BAM works with the high end a little more. I use these EQ’s to tweak for the room so I never have to touch my presets.
 
Well if ya sell all your tube amps and go digital just make sure ya buy a nice pair of panties to go with it! :ROFLMAO:
OP,I am only messing with ya. I have said it publicly a million times that if I could be happy with duplicating my tube amps sound and feel with a S.S. rig I would jump on it in a heartbeat!! Unfortunately for me I have yet to find it. Its all good. As long as your making good music with it who cares what the hell it is!!
 
OP,I am only messing with ya. I have said it publicly a million times that if I could be happy with duplicating my tube amps sound and feel with a S.S. rig I would jump on it in a heartbeat!! U

Dude if throwing on a pink thong with pansies and daffodils is the key to tone I might consider it :LOL:
 
I had a Helix. Grew tired of dialing in the same exact tone despite what amp/cab/pedal sim I used.
 
I use both in different bands. In one band that plays a wide variety of genres I use a fractal. In the 90's tribute band I use a Friedman tube amp.
 
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