Mike Soldano talks about EVH's Marshall

[Greazygeo]

No, not at all...but I personally can't believe this is even a discussion. There's WAY too much gain for a stock plexi on VHI, I might believe stock plexi on 1984, because the gain is backed way down through the years, but not on the first record...there's something else going on...drifted cathode resistors increasing gain, Bandmaster, distortion box...something...

My 69 plexi has every bit that much gain. Using an echo plex in front can add a bunch of gain if you want it to do so. His amp doesn't have that much gain. Plus what they added with tape saturation, compression etc. it's not rocket science.

 

[Bronco]

I had a '79 Super Bass converted to 12000 spec (Ed spec) at 90 volts on the Variac with NOS 6CA7s in it and didn't get anywhere near it...I fooled with cathode resistors too...couldn't get there...this was through greenbacks, Alnico Blues, V30s, and a mix of greenbacks/ JBLs...I've tried different pickups, bridges, volume pot values (in the guitar), OD/boost pedals...no dice.

Was it set to the specs both Dave and John Suhr have posted?

Here's my old 12000 replica at that spec:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh-iqH1 ... iLsseJDxjQ

TONS of gain...this is through Scumback M75s.

Your definition of "tons of gain" is VERY different than mine, and while the sound you posted is a good approximation of what Unchained sounds like (but an even better representation of 1984), it is not a great representation of ANYTHING from VHI, this is NOT a criticism, just an observation. Ed backed off the gain right after VHI, VHII doesn't sound as gainy and biting to my ears...it's warmer, less gain and high end...and he kind of stayed with that sound up through 1984, although the sound got cleaner and cleaner as the years rolled by (until F.U.C.K. at least, then it was a high gain shit show).

The guitar on VH1 is slammed with a MM or DSD pickup; none of the other albums are; VH2 and beyond is when he started going to PAFs, and eventually what became the Frankie...anyways, the Mighty Might 1300 or Super D when combined with an eq in front, it makes a hell of a difference on that spec. I mean, this isn't even a debate anymore with the dudes over at the Metro forum, and they are fanatical. Numerous guys over there have used this exact spec with the right pup and eq (plus an additional cab w/JBLs which add a ton of brightness) and they get the same results as Ed did. Its just not a secret anymore.

You must of heard the raw VH1 tracks right? It really isn't that gainy.

 

[paulyc]

The best example of someone other than Ed getting VHI sound, to my ears, is Curt Mitchell on the EVH instructional video... and that amp is a Langer mod I think...not a stock plexi

 

[paulyc]

I have heard the raw tracks, and I agree...as are the Zero demos...not as gainy to my ears either, but I wonder what was done after, besides typical post production (reverb, compression, etc...). I want the final sound from the album coming out of the cab, not the raw track sound...

 

[marvcus]

I, too, have a 1969 plexi and it will certainly get that level of gain. Greazygeo, is yours a SL/A 10XXX?

 

[SLOgriff]

 

[Bronco]

I have heard the raw tracks, and I agree...as are the Zero demos...not as gainy to my ears either, but I wonder what was done after, besides typical post production (reverb, compression, etc...). I want the final sound from the album coming out of the cab, not the raw track sound...

Oh absolutely! IMO, the best way to get the album sound is to load it down, line out to reverb then to power amp...OR; load it down, then mike it with an SM57 (either IR sim or real mic), and then run it through either high quality FR/FR studio monitors, pa speakers, or floor monitors like the Atomic CLR or something. If you're not gigging (hell even if you are) this is really the best way, especially since you can control the overal volume.

 

[paulyc]

And you think they (the television people) let him dime that amp ? No way in hell...

 

[Greazygeo]

I, too, have a 1969 plexi and it will certainly get that level of gain. Greazygeo, is yours a SL/A 10XXX?

I'd have to look. I have a 68 too. I actually have two '69s. The early 69 is a plexi and the later is a metal panel. The plexi 69 has more gain than all my others. Actually out of about 25 or so old Marshalls I only kept these. The plexi 69 has the most gain too.

 

[paulyc]

I have heard the raw tracks, and I agree...as are the Zero demos...not as gainy to my ears either, but I wonder what was done after, besides typical post production (reverb, compression, etc...). I want the final sound from the album coming out of the cab, not the raw track sound...

Oh absolutely! IMO, the best way to get the album sound is to load it down, line out to reverb then to power amp...OR; load it down, then mike it with an SM57 (either IR sim or real mic), and then run it through either high quality FR/FR studio monitors, pa speakers, or floor monitors like the Atomic CLR or something. If you're not gigging (hell even if you are) this is really the best way, especially since you can control the overal volume.

I tried that too, loading it down with a Marshall SE100 and re-amping it through an H&H V200 (not 800) into some Marshall cabs...with the reverb from a Roland SRV2000 or an Ibanez SDR 1000 on the plate settings and messed with the reverb and reverb eq settings until the cows came home...my Egnater amp still does a better job (to my ears it's "cleaner", and I don't mean in a gain sort of way, less compressed and squashed), which is what I believe I like about VHI in the first place, it's HUGE and majestic sounding...the Letterman clips above sound squashed to me, less HI FI...Ed used to say he wanted a nice home stereo type sound, not an AM radio sound, which to me means full range and not all squashed down.

 

[paulyc]

I look at other things recorded around that (VH1) timeframe (AC/DC, Boston, Zep, Kiss, etc...) and none of those sounds (which are non-master volume Marshalls) sound like that. AC/DC is a much heavier band than VH I think, but the guitars sound way cleaner to me.

 

[Bronco]

I look at other things recorded around that (VH1) timeframe (AC/DC, Boston, Zep, Kiss, etc...) and none of those sounds (which are non-master volume Marshalls) sound like that. AC/DC is a much heavier band than VH I think, but the guitars sound way cleaner to me.

Yeah, but were they diming them across the board? I don't believe any of theose bands were. I know for a fact Ace wasn't. And come on, Tom Scholz was a freaking rocket scientist or something. You know he was modding the shit out of his stuff!

 

[paulyc]

Power Soak and a 6 band MXR eq. Ace used an LPB-1 booster...neither sounds as hairy as VH I...but we're debating the output of pick ups or an Echoplex being used as a boost ? Scholz used an Echoplex in front of his Marshalls too (the infamous hyperspace pedal) and BOTH Scholz and Ace used DiMarzio Super Distortion pick ups in their LPs...

 

[charvelstrat81]

I had a '79 Super Bass converted to 12000 spec (Ed spec) at 90 volts on the Variac with NOS 6CA7s in it and didn't get anywhere near it...I fooled with cathode resistors too...couldn't get there...this was through greenbacks, Alnico Blues, V30s, and a mix of greenbacks/ JBLs...I've tried different pickups, bridges, volume pot values (in the guitar), OD/boost pedals...no dice.

Was it set to the specs both Dave and John Suhr have posted?

Here's my old 12000 replica at that spec:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh-iqH1 ... iLsseJDxjQ

TONS of gain...this is through Scumback M75s.

Nice but it Needs two things, reverb and eddie's hands.
A lot of it really is the way he plays,Mark A rockstah had that feel and Pete thorn and so does Ralle from metro.
Put one of them through this amp with some verb and

 

[charvelstrat81]

Oh, just one more thing...that Unchained clip was done with my old Frankenstein replica I built in '89 and has a Gibson '57 Classic + in it at 8.7dc resistance. No crazy output pickup...just a good ol' spanky PAF.

So you are saying he did not go to the 14K frankenstein style pu that they sell out of the replica's?
why are they selling that pu as the one that is in the frankenstein in the later years(fair warning,1984)?

 

[Rdodson]

Oh, just one more thing...that Unchained clip was done with my old Frankenstein replica I built in '89 and has a Gibson '57 Classic + in it at 8.7dc resistance. No crazy output pickup...just a good ol' spanky PAF.

So you are saying he did not go to the 14K frankenstein style pu that they sell out of the replica's?
why are they selling that pu as the one that is in the frankenstein in the later years(fair warning,1984)?

I think the higher output pickup came later after Anderson relocated the Floyd so the guitar would intimate properly. Suddenly the '61 PAF was too weak and trebly because it was closer to the bridge.

 

[tech21man]

Fun read. Where is nitro now?

All I even gotten was,

a) Nitro insists on super gain levels on VH1 amp and mods, first retracts the super gain levels then the mods.

b) Argues about a hole that he doesn't really know what it did for sure but hey it is a hole.

c) I am sure that he is part woman or at least his hands are and probably couldn't even play hard on a plexi dimed...

d) Suhr's SL demo with pete thorn nails the sound and it's not the only one...why the fuck do people really go watergate on the components when they can actually open up a suhr or metro friedman and get the magic stuff. I am not really sure van halen himself has the brain cells left to de clutter the mess of the situation.

e) Duesentrieb makes the real winning post and goes unnoticed. Mercy.



We are talking about this sound isolated right?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBZVEpKoB-A

 

[charvelstrat81]

Oh, just one more thing...that Unchained clip was done with my old Frankenstein replica I built in '89 and has a Gibson '57 Classic + in it at 8.7dc resistance. No crazy output pickup...just a good ol' spanky PAF.

So you are saying he did not go to the 14K frankenstein style pu that they sell out of the replica's?
why are they selling that pu as the one that is in the frankenstein in the later years(fair warning,1984)?

I think the higher output pickup came later after Anderson relocated the Floyd so the guitar would intimate properly. Suddenly the '61 PAF was too weak and trebly because it was closer to the bridge.

So no 13K ceramic on VH I in your opinion?
Seems to be split down the middle 50% think it is a ceramic and 50% say rewound PAF like the duncan 78?
Your 68 spec' 12XXX sounded really nice, that was just the head? no outboard gear like a ep3?

 

[Rocksoff]

The Ibanez Destroyer with a 13k Mighty Mite (Super Distortion clone) for VHII.

It's right up near the strings.

 

[Rocksoff]

I'm not buying it...he stated that Jose did stuff to his amps, that he added things to his MXR pedals to reduce noise and boost gain, and that his best tone ever was the white Bandmaster (probably the same model/spec that Brian Setzer uses), I have a Variac and tried it on a Super Lead with 2 tubes pulled and the bias all the way up...sounded the same as the amp with 4 tubes in it, just quieter, no notes exploding off the pick...doesn't brown out the sound or make it sag at all...the 6CA7s were used because they were higher quality EL34 style tubes that would take this abuse (cathode stripping), I doubt Ed sat around and bought the best of 30 Marshalls that sounded good on a Variac...he stated later on that old Marshalls could be MADE to sound good if they didn't when purchased initially, implying work/mods were being done to get his tone...and yes, Ed was poor in the early days, but somehow he blew up his Bandmaster every 8 months or so (output transformer), but felt the sound he got was worth it (and that it was repaired over and over)...I don't doubt it's on VH1 if he felt THAT strongly about it that he'd fix the damn thing every 6 to 8 months

Dave Friedman has seen a lot of EVH's amps and just take the wood Marshall that is in a lot of photos from 1977/78, well that amp is stock according to Dave Friedman and apparently just a good sounding Marshall.