ledvedder
Well-known member
Not yet.
glpg80
Well-known member
Try putting the 820 back in and don’t bypass it with anything since you’re wanting dynamics. A 10k is a cold biased stage acts more like a clipping diode on a single phase than anything else.
Once you fix the 820, then try the 4.7k on the 4th stage. You can then clip a 6.5k in parallel to make it a 2.7k.
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FourT6and2
Well-known member
What are some bands/sounds you like? Hard to recommend stuff without knowing the sound you're searching for.
Me? I really like the sound on Tool's Undertow and Aenima albums. And he gets all his organic semi-clean sounds by rolling back the guitar volume. And that's all 100% stock Superlead. But he mixes that with a VH4 or Rectifier. But for that sound, with a bit more of a modern feel, I really like the Cameron (Friedman) Atomica. You can get close to that with the Ceriatone Molecular or Gargoyle (Fortin Meshuggah) layouts. But basically, it's the typical hot-rod Jose 800 circuit.
Three gain stages. 2k7/.68, 2k7/.68, 820R/.68. V1a plate is 330k. First coupler is 0.0022, second is 0.022. pre-PI Jose master with some clipping diodes. dual gains with a 4700pf cap on the second one and voltage divider to taste on the first one into V1b. Depth/nfb circuit to taste. Rest of the circuit is stock 800. This is a great starting point because the bias arrangements on each stage give you lots of punch and keep things tight. And since the rest of the circuit is stock Marshall spec, you retain the woody mid-heavy voicing that gives you that classic "LP into a cranked Marshall" sound.
This will clean up using guitar volume due to the diodes. But it is an abrupt transition. Once signal drops below diode clamping voltage, you get instant cleans. And the gain controls are interactive. First one is saturation/gain and second one is like your mid/high boost. Set one high and one low. The higher you set gain 2, the less and less the bright cap does. So I usually set them up to reverse-mirror each other. Either / \ or \ /.
Me? I really like the sound on Tool's Undertow and Aenima albums. And he gets all his organic semi-clean sounds by rolling back the guitar volume. And that's all 100% stock Superlead. But he mixes that with a VH4 or Rectifier. But for that sound, with a bit more of a modern feel, I really like the Cameron (Friedman) Atomica. You can get close to that with the Ceriatone Molecular or Gargoyle (Fortin Meshuggah) layouts. But basically, it's the typical hot-rod Jose 800 circuit.
Three gain stages. 2k7/.68, 2k7/.68, 820R/.68. V1a plate is 330k. First coupler is 0.0022, second is 0.022. pre-PI Jose master with some clipping diodes. dual gains with a 4700pf cap on the second one and voltage divider to taste on the first one into V1b. Depth/nfb circuit to taste. Rest of the circuit is stock 800. This is a great starting point because the bias arrangements on each stage give you lots of punch and keep things tight. And since the rest of the circuit is stock Marshall spec, you retain the woody mid-heavy voicing that gives you that classic "LP into a cranked Marshall" sound.
This will clean up using guitar volume due to the diodes. But it is an abrupt transition. Once signal drops below diode clamping voltage, you get instant cleans. And the gain controls are interactive. First one is saturation/gain and second one is like your mid/high boost. Set one high and one low. The higher you set gain 2, the less and less the bright cap does. So I usually set them up to reverse-mirror each other. Either / \ or \ /.
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ledvedder
Well-known member
Yeah, I love Adam's tone on those first few Tool albums. I'm a huge VH fan, but my 1987 gets me those tones. A few of my other favorites are Cantrell's tone on Facelift, and some of the 80s stuff (showing my age there
).
FourT6and2
Well-known member
Yeah, I love Adam's tone on those first few Tool albums. I'm a huge VH fan, but my 1987 gets me those tones. A few of my other favorites are Cantrell's tone on Facelift, and some of the 80s stuff (showing my age there
Cool. Yeah, the above specs might serve you well then.
glpg80
Well-known member
It all depends on what you want. It’s your amp and we all have the ability to help. Tuning that last stage can really make a difference for what you’re wanting but at the end of the day it’s all about what you need the amp to do.
If the 4.7k and 2.7k won’t do what you need on the 4th stage, then it’s just too hot of a setup for what you’re looking for. Once you start down the path of messing with the rest of the circuit further before the 4th stage, the less it sounds like a JCM800 and more like something else entirely if you’re not familiar with what you’re doing and just hot swapping things.
I’m sure the final stage with the different cathode resistor values would give you back some of that punch and clarity you’re looking for. If not, your desired tone is a hot 3 stage setup instead of a stock setup + a 4th stage.
I’m surprised you weren’t more excited given how many mods you wanted to do with the original title, and it still may be able to do what you need, but if it’s not there then it’s not there.
Don’t forget to add a depth mod at some point. It makes a difference in being able to tailor your sound and tighten things up.
If the 4.7k and 2.7k won’t do what you need on the 4th stage, then it’s just too hot of a setup for what you’re looking for. Once you start down the path of messing with the rest of the circuit further before the 4th stage, the less it sounds like a JCM800 and more like something else entirely if you’re not familiar with what you’re doing and just hot swapping things.
I’m sure the final stage with the different cathode resistor values would give you back some of that punch and clarity you’re looking for. If not, your desired tone is a hot 3 stage setup instead of a stock setup + a 4th stage.
I’m surprised you weren’t more excited given how many mods you wanted to do with the original title, and it still may be able to do what you need, but if it’s not there then it’s not there.
Don’t forget to add a depth mod at some point. It makes a difference in being able to tailor your sound and tighten things up.
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ledvedder
Well-known member
Yeah, I'm, gonna try removing the cap on the 820r, and try a 4.7k on the 4th stage.
ledvedder
Well-known member
I tried 4k7 on the 4th stage, and taking the bypass cap off the 820r. It's a killer sound, but it's just too hot for what I'm looking for.
glpg80
Well-known member
So what’s your gameplan? Start tuning the stuff before it? Turn it back stock and leave it? Or mod it to a hot 3 stage/cathode follower setup?
ledvedder
Well-known member
I might put it back to stock and go from there. That's not to say 4 stage isn't a great sound. I just don't like it for myself.
glpg80
Well-known member
Let us know how we can help!
Any example clips you’re aiming for?
Any example clips you’re aiming for?
ledvedder
Well-known member
I'm not really sure just yet. I might just play it for a bit and decide what needs to be tweaked. Maybe do one of the Ceriatone specs, like the Yeti or Molecular?
glpg80
Well-known member
If you don’t like what’s currently in it I feel you’ll be really displeased with those circuits. I find them thin and lifeless IMHO.
glpg80
Well-known member
Feel free to explain what you hear and dislike about what you hear and we can help you tweak. You may have to go to PMs as some people won’t want to disclose some of that here, but it will help you get the amp tone you want in your head.
Everything I’ve helped with so far is pretty common knowledge. When you get to tonal shaping then it gets a lot more personal.
Have you added a depth circuit? Do you want it to be a low mid, high mid, or extended lows type of depth? How tight do you want the amp?
Everything I’ve helped with so far is pretty common knowledge. When you get to tonal shaping then it gets a lot more personal.
Have you added a depth circuit? Do you want it to be a low mid, high mid, or extended lows type of depth? How tight do you want the amp?
Chubbs
Well-known member
Not sure if it’s been stated here before but how high up do you have the master? These amps change personality considerably from 1 to 3 to 6-7 on the mv. Also, it may be worth it to play with pot values since the eq is so weird on these amps.
glpg80
Well-known member
Not just pot values but tonestack values. I’m not running a stock tonestack, nowhere close.
Chubbs
Well-known member
Well you are a mad scientist, and actually know what your doing. I was thinking 5k presence and possibly a 500k gain pot might be a worthy mod. Not too far off from stock but still a different flavor.
glpg80
Well-known member
Eh, I have a different approach than others. I hate surgical tight and wrestling an amp when I play - I like to use the depth control as a high mid fine tune control rather than useless earth shaking low end that fights a bassist in a band. But I know each person wants different things and we all have different guitar/tuning preferences.
I would suggest a 25k presence and a 50k mid pot since he wants more vintage and EVH with a JCM800 twist. That 50k mid pot is essential.
I’d probably keep the 1M gain pot and put a 470k across it on a switch.
I also think the OP needs to add a depth knob and to tweak on that. It really helps fill things out.
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ledvedder
Well-known member
How do you configure your depth pot to be more of a mid control?
glpg80
Well-known member
1M pot in parallel with a 0.0022uF cap. Keep adding 0.001uF caps in parallel until it sounds right to your ears. Peavey 5150 uses 0.0068uF so that gives you an upper limit.