Module level / Master level question..

[RockStarNick]

Awesome explanation, Valtiel.

 

[Buckeyedog]

I know Jeff likes to run the Master at 2:00 or better, then adjust all the modules to taste. He told me that at the Detroit amp fest last year.

 

[Suhrfer]

As other have said, I use the module masters to balance the levels between modules/channels. Because of the way I use my loops, I get the best results when I set my module masters between noon and 2:00, then I use the main master for overall volume.

 

[EWSEthan]

As other have said, I use the module masters to balance the levels between modules/channels. Because of the way I use my loops, I get the best results when I set my module masters between noon and 2:00, then I use the main master for overall volume.

+1

 

[Valtiel]

Awesome explanation, Valtiel.

 

[EWSEthan]

Awesome explanation, Valtiel.

Really interesting! I never thought about it like that, but the water analogy was very clear. Great explanation indeed!

 

[Jeff Hilligan]

here is the easy way. your using a mixing board and you have signal so hot on the slider for guitar the leds are all the way to the top and the main master faders are barely pushed up. You have to balance the 2 for the best results. I think its time to post the page from the manual about the loop.

 

[bscfo1]

Two good analogies:

The water one to address how power tube distortion happens or in this case doesn't.

The mixing board gain and master channel fader one for best signal to noise ratio. (to the effects loop)

Discuss.

 

[Valtiel]

Awesome explanation, Valtiel.

Really interesting! I never thought about it like that, but the water analogy was very clear. Great explanation indeed!

No problem, I live to serve!

 

[king tone]

In order for your loop levels to be controllable your main master needs to be at 2 or 3 o clock. Other wise its a matter of preference.

Not to hijack this thread but I think it is somewhat related.

Tell me in more detail what you mean...
Are you saying the main master is the overall master volume of the amp or per module?

I would like to get my module masters higher, sort of to simulate not having a master volume and getting the hottest signal that can be used before the poweramp but I guess I need a line level shifter or something. Is the ebtech what you recommend or is there a better solution? I am running a yamaha ud stomp in the parallel loop. I originally thought the yamaha was line level which may be a mistake, there is no indication in the manual although there is a switch for the input(high-low) I do not think it is a
-10 or +4 switch. I would say my t/d module is about 12 oclock on gain and between 3 to 4 oclock on module master. The sl2 is balanced to the clean, somewhere around 12 to 1 oclock gain and 12 oclock module master. Does this seem to hot, to low or what? Will this be hotter with the level shifter? Some say tonal differences...any ideas? Is there a sort of (roughly) "unity" setting if you were not using the loop? Thanks!

 

[richedie]

Yea, I agree. I think the master on the module if set too low begins to get that choked preamp only type distortion. I think both should be at least at noon, clean sounds are much higher on the module.

I would LOVE to do that but is IMPOSSIBLE I have found with the Bassman in the mix. I'd like to hear from others with the Bassman. If I crank my BMan module master to over 3:00, with it's gain on like 11:00, I still can't get my other modules past 10:00. Any higher, and then the Bassman is MUCH lower than the gainier modules which makes it useless live. Maybe the other clean modules have better luck with volume!

I also hate having to run the preamp volume on the BMan that high because it seems to overdrive the clean stuff too much and into the loop it comes out pretty hot. I would love to hear Bruce's take on this if there is a difference and why the BMan is so low on volume.

Maybe Eric's idea of a JP 5751 in V1 makes a noticable difference?

Example, if I set up my module with the BMan in slot 1 and set the amp up for clean first, there is no way I can get the module master past 10:00 on the gainier modules - but I am not sure I hear a big difference anyway! My BMan can be about 9- 12 oclock on gain and between 3 to 4 oclock on module master. I don't notice clipping unless I don't know what clipping means. The Sl2 is balanced to the clean, somewhere around 12-1:00 oclock gain and 10-11:00 oclock module master.

I use the amp at home too so if I kept the master on 2:00, I'd barely have my channel masters on! I hate to have to fiddle with channel masters at practice, jams or gigs so I set them at home and adjust the overall master depending on the room or situation. For example, at practice, my overall master doesn't really get past 11:00. If I cranked to 2:00, my channel master on the SL2 would have to come down to 9:00.

I'd love to know how guys cranking their gainy channel masters to noon, get a crystal clean sound?

Matt, sounds like you set yours like me. If you run the BMan and the EG5 or SL2 where are your channel masters? My Bassman channel A would be around 2-3:00 and the SL2 for example would have the master about 10:00. My MASTER would be anywhere from 11:00 - 1:00. I think Jeff or someone said it doesn't matter one way or the other because the channel master or more like loop sends, not really pushing the power tubes as much as people think!

Sounds like according to Jeff, it will all sound good regardless but sill a touch confused on what you meant Jeff about it needing to be at 2:00 master for the loops to be controllable.
"In order for your loop levels to be controllable your main master needs to be at 2 or 3 o clock." - still not sure I understand that statement.

 

[3 Mile Stone]

Yea, I agree. I think the master on the module if set too low begins to get that choked preamp only type distortion. I think both should be at least at noon, clean sounds are much higher on the module.

I would LOVE to do that but is IMPOSSIBLE I have found with the Bassman in the mix. I'd like to hear from others with the Bassman. If I crank my BMan module master to over 3:00, with it's gain on like 11:00, I still can't get my other modules past 10:00. Any higher, and then the Bassman is MUCH lower than the gainier modules which makes it useless live. Maybe the other clean modules have better luck with volume!

I also hate having to run the preamp volume on the BMan that high because it seems to overdrive the clean stuff too much and into the loop it comes out pretty hot. I would love to hear Bruce's take on this if there is a difference and why the BMan is so low on volume.

Okay just trying to address this part of the issue one thing at atime. I have the Basman in slot one also BTW. I think it's safe to say we all use some sort of high gain modaule in slot 2 so we should all be in the same boat more or less.

If your Basman "A" is louder than the other 3 channels and the gain is too high, why not just inch the gain down until you have it where you want it and then turn up the MV on the other 3 channels? This is what I'm doing, no problem.

 

[EWSEthan]

Matt, sounds like you set yours like me. If you run the BMan and the EG5 or SL2 where are your channel masters? My Bassman channel A would be around 2-3:00 and the SL2 for example would have the master about 10:00. My MASTER would be anywhere from 11:00 - 1:00. I think Jeff or someone said it doesn't matter one way or the other because the channel master or more like loop sends, not really pushing the power tubes as much as people think!

Sounds like according to Jeff, it will all sound good regardless but sill a touch confused on what you meant Jeff about it needing to be at 2:00 master for the loops to be controllable.
"In order for your loop levels to be controllable your main master needs to be at 2 or 3 o clock." - still not sure I understand that statement.

Rich,

Yeah mine is set very much like yours. Its the only way I can to use the TimeFactor. I run the clean as hot and clean as I can and adjust all other channels from there.

Bman:
A: Gain Noon, Master 2 oclock
B: Gain 2 oclock, Master between 11 and noon

EG5:
A: Gain Noon, Master between 11 oclock
B: Gain 2 oclock, Master noon

And I also agree. I dont know what Jeff was getting at with that statement!

 

[aeroic]

Matt, sounds like you set yours like me. If you run the BMan and the EG5 or SL2 where are your channel masters? My Bassman channel A would be around 2-3:00 and the SL2 for example would have the master about 10:00. My MASTER would be anywhere from 11:00 - 1:00. I think Jeff or someone said it doesn't matter one way or the other because the channel master or more like loop sends, not really pushing the power tubes as much as people think!

Sounds like according to Jeff, it will all sound good regardless but sill a touch confused on what you meant Jeff about it needing to be at 2:00 master for the loops to be controllable.
"In order for your loop levels to be controllable your main master needs to be at 2 or 3 o clock." - still not sure I understand that statement.

Rich,

Yeah mine is set very much like yours. Its the only way I can to use the TimeFactor. I run the clean as hot and clean as I can and adjust all other channels from there.

Bman:
A: Gain Noon, Master 2 oclock
B: Gain 2 oclock, Master between 11 and noon

EG5:
A: Gain Noon, Master between 11 oclock
B: Gain 2 oclock, Master noon

And I also agree. I dont know what Jeff was getting at with that statement!

I'm assuming he mispoke, and meant to say your channel masters can't get above 2-3 oclock. Thankfully the Lexicon MPXG2 has a preamp-send level knob, so I can fine tune it a lot more to avoid clipping. Otherwise it would be a royal PITA w/o it. I still have yet to find a unit as good as the Lexicon MPXG2 for guitar effects. That said, I want to try the AxeFX .

Eric

 

[EWSEthan]

Matt, sounds like you set yours like me. If you run the BMan and the EG5 or SL2 where are your channel masters? My Bassman channel A would be around 2-3:00 and the SL2 for example would have the master about 10:00. My MASTER would be anywhere from 11:00 - 1:00. I think Jeff or someone said it doesn't matter one way or the other because the channel master or more like loop sends, not really pushing the power tubes as much as people think!

Sounds like according to Jeff, it will all sound good regardless but sill a touch confused on what you meant Jeff about it needing to be at 2:00 master for the loops to be controllable.
"In order for your loop levels to be controllable your main master needs to be at 2 or 3 o clock." - still not sure I understand that statement.

Rich,

Yeah mine is set very much like yours. Its the only way I can to use the TimeFactor. I run the clean as hot and clean as I can and adjust all other channels from there.

Bman:
A: Gain Noon, Master 2 oclock
B: Gain 2 oclock, Master between 11 and noon

EG5:
A: Gain Noon, Master between 11 oclock
B: Gain 2 oclock, Master noon

And I also agree. I dont know what Jeff was getting at with that statement!

I'm assuming he mispoke, and meant to say your channel masters can't get above 2-3 oclock. Thankfully the Lexicon MPXG2 has a preamp-send level knob, so I can fine tune it a lot more to avoid clipping. Otherwise it would be a royal PITA w/o it. I still have yet to find a unit as good as the Lexicon MPXG2 for guitar effects. That said, I want to try the AxeFX .

Eric

I think youre probably right Eric. That makes alot more sense. I would think channel masters over 2 oclock would be just too hot.

Not to get OT but...since you brought it up, I know everyone on rig-talk LOVES the AxeFX, but man I hated those clips on the Fractal site. I thought it sounded very sterile and digital. I didnt hear TUBES in those clips and I was surprised given the universal praise.

 

[aeroic]

Matt, sounds like you set yours like me. If you run the BMan and the EG5 or SL2 where are your channel masters? My Bassman channel A would be around 2-3:00 and the SL2 for example would have the master about 10:00. My MASTER would be anywhere from 11:00 - 1:00. I think Jeff or someone said it doesn't matter one way or the other because the channel master or more like loop sends, not really pushing the power tubes as much as people think!

Sounds like according to Jeff, it will all sound good regardless but sill a touch confused on what you meant Jeff about it needing to be at 2:00 master for the loops to be controllable.
"In order for your loop levels to be controllable your main master needs to be at 2 or 3 o clock." - still not sure I understand that statement.

Rich,

Yeah mine is set very much like yours. Its the only way I can to use the TimeFactor. I run the clean as hot and clean as I can and adjust all other channels from there.

Bman:
A: Gain Noon, Master 2 oclock
B: Gain 2 oclock, Master between 11 and noon

EG5:
A: Gain Noon, Master between 11 oclock
B: Gain 2 oclock, Master noon

And I also agree. I dont know what Jeff was getting at with that statement!

I'm assuming he mispoke, and meant to say your channel masters can't get above 2-3 oclock. Thankfully the Lexicon MPXG2 has a preamp-send level knob, so I can fine tune it a lot more to avoid clipping. Otherwise it would be a royal PITA w/o it. I still have yet to find a unit as good as the Lexicon MPXG2 for guitar effects. That said, I want to try the AxeFX .

Eric

I think youre probably right Eric. That makes alot more sense. I would think channel masters over 2 oclock would be just too hot.

Not to get OT but...since you brought it up, I know everyone on rig-talk LOVES the AxeFX, but man I hated those clips on the Fractal site. I thought it sounded very sterile and digital. I didnt hear TUBES in those clips and I was surprised given the universal praise.

I'm interested in it for the EFX mainly. The clips on the website I'm not that impressed with either. But there are some clips in the clip collective here that I was impressed with. Mainly the higher gain stuff. I'm not that big on the clean sounds. But, I know my Lexicon MPXG2 like the back of my hand...and I'm not willing yet to throw down another $2k to try it out.

 

[aeroic]

Like this clip of the AxeFX I think is really really friggin killer! (it was recorded direct)

https://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... ID=7315911

 

[swimrunner]

Okay, so for clean channels, is the "A" channel supposed to be fairly quiet? New Mod 50 owner here, love the tones but the T/D channel A needs to be run lots higher then the other channels.

 

[RockStarNick]

Okay, so for clean channels, is the "A" channel supposed to be fairly quiet? New Mod 50 owner here, love the tones but the T/D channel A needs to be run lots higher then the other channels.

Yes, the cleanest of your channels will usually need to have the highest set channel master.

 

[EWSEthan]

Like this clip of the AxeFX I think is really really friggin killer! (it was recorded direct)

https://www.soundclick.com/bands/default ... ID=7315911

Eric dude I dont think theres all that much TONE in that clip. Sure its "BROOTALZ" or whatever, but when you are using that much over the top gain and compression almost anything can sound like that. Id be willing to bet that a POD could make a clip that sounds just as good. Im sure AxeFX is probably good for stuff like that especially if you want to add tons of FX and whatnot. But the clips Ive heard of Plexis and stuff did not impress me as being very organic sounding, which is really how I generally judge good tube tone.