Neural DSP Mesa Boogie Mark IIC+ Suite

[rsm]

I've been trying a few of the Neural DSP plugins this weekend. Petrucci is good, Plini is ok, but the Mesa Boogie Mark IIC+ Suite sounds amazing so far.

Just going through the factory presets, many are usable with minor tweaks at most; then I came to the "Jurthrashic Park" factory preset...it's "shut up and take my money" good! I'm more of a Marshall guy, and this plugin is still amazingly good IMO.

I don't have a IIC+ or IIC++ to compare it with, but it sounds legit to me.

Anyone have the real amps to compare?

 

[Beyond Black]

I've been trying a few of the Neural DSP plugins this weekend. Petrucci is good, Plini is ok, but the Mesa Boogie Mark IIC+ Suite sounds amazing so far.

Just going through the factory presets, many are usable with minor tweaks at most; then I came to the "Jurthrashic Park" factory preset...it's "shut up and take my money" good! I'm more of a Marshall guy, and this plugin is still amazingly good IMO.

I don't have a IIC+ or IIC++ to compare it with, but it sounds legit to me.

Anyone have the real amps to compare?

The IIC+ plug in fucks hard. I played this on my buddy’s setup, one track on each side.
Only spent a half hour or so on it but was extremely impressed. Very C+ like in tone, but what really impressed me was the feel. It’s got a great bouncy feel that’s pretty damn authentic. This was also my first experience playing through a plug in, so I’m hardly an authority on them, but I do know good feel and tone, and this has it.

Trying to upload a clip…

 

[Jccobb2]

Neural Amp Modeler (NAM) is a freeware plugin that uses the same type of tech as the Neural DSP plugin. There are a few really good 2C+ captures everyone should try to see how good this technology can be.

I don't know which is best, but the freeware plugin is good enough to turn heads. Particularly if you're looking for a recording solution instead of live.

 

[rsm]

I have that too (NAM), my main guitar plugin is PolyChrome DSP McRocklin Suite - sounds great, easy to use, low CPU usage, best $99 I ever spent. Waiting for them to add MIDI control which is on the list for an upcoming release/update.

NAM reminds me of IRs, sifting through dozens of captures (like IRs) gets tedious, The Neural DSP Mesa plugin is ~$100, sounds good, and is easy to use, and worth it IMO. I don't need dozens of captures, just amp models that sound good.

I still have a few more to try; I know I will buy the Mesa plugin, maybe Petrucci too.

 

[Chris O]

The MK2 and Soldano are my favorite high gain plugins. I haven’t owned either amp in real life, but I also gravitate to them on every modeler I’ve had. At this point, I don’t see that I’ll ever need another “real” amp, so these really scratch the itch. Highly recommend these.

 

[easstudios]

NAM reminds me of IRs, sifting through dozens of captures (like IRs) gets tedious, The Neural DSP Mesa plugin is ~$100, sounds good, and is easy to use, and worth it IMO. I don't need dozens of captures, just amp models that sound good.

This is the best advantage of NDSP or other plugins, you can fine tune what you need rather than hoping for the best.

I've done lots of comparison videos on youtube. I wont keep spamming them but Neural DSP is basically always bang on the money to my real amps. The real trick is to use IR's your familiar with - for instance, Plini sounds dead nuts on to my BE100 but I don't really like the stock IR's.

The older plugins have slightly worse newer IR's, the newer ones are much better (even though I still end up just using my own out of familiarity).

I will say, as much as I rate NDSP, there is SO much good stuff out there but there isn't much information out there as far as setting correct input levels (ESSENTIAL for getting them feeling right and having the right gain response). The same is kind of true for understanding impedance interactions with the poweramp as that can be something that makes things sound different even if they're accurate.

NDSP made it easy by having their input level calibrataed to the most popular interfaces on the market atm. If you use a Focusrite Scarlett 3rd/4th gen or any UAD interface as your DI, just set your preamp gain to 0 and thats the DI level NDSP wants to use.

 

[rsm]

@easstudios thanks for the info. I'm finidng the Neural DSP plugin IRs work fine; I fine tune with the mic type / placement and other settings.

I'm exploring various guitar plugins to see what's out there. As I mentioned, PolyChrome DSP McRocklin Suite is my current fav, sounds great, easy to use, but some may find the cab options limited (they are), but I can get many sounds I like, quickly, which is what matters most to me.

FWIW, I had one of the first Two Note CAB devices shipped to North America; I quickly realized that this was tedious. With 20+, 30+ options with speaker / cab / mic / mic placement / room, etc. it was challenging to compare, by the time I got to example 30 or 50, I forgot what earlier examples sounded like; I was going around in circles, comparing over and over again; and it sounded different every day, if that makes sense? It was like treading water, progress was slow.

One thing I'd like in PolyChrome DSP are deeper amp model settings for resonance, sag, bias, and power/variac, etc. and more options on the fixed cab settings, then again, not having those options is part of its' simplicity, and I am pleased with the sounds I can get from it.

I'm going to give the NDSP Wong, Plini, Abasi a try over the next few days. I'm buying the Mesa, and likely Petrucci.

 

[Chris O]

I'm going to give the NDSP Wong, Plini, Abasi a try over the next few days. I'm buying the Mesa, and likely Petrucci.

Give Nolly a try too if you plan to do Abasi and Plini.

 

[rsm]

I purchased the Mesa and Petrucci today. Going to spend more time with both.

between the two, they cover most of the tones, or close, of some of the others. I found Plini, Abasi and Wong interesting but not enough to buy them.

The Mesa suite is really good, and more versatile than I expected.

I'd like to see an Archetype Holdsworth.

 

[rsm]

Neural DSP Mesa IIC+ Suite is legit. I'm having a blast.

Keeping my tube amps, but software plugins are delivering more fun per $1!

 

[Dave M]

Not a priority, but, have you tried the pitch transposer?

 

[Ben Waylin]

If you use a Focusrite Scarlett 3rd/4th gen or any UAD interface as your DI, just set your preamp gain to 0 and thats the DI level NDSP wants to use.

So, you mean the knob labelled "gain" on the input of the Scarlett 2i2 ?

Set that to "zero" ?

 

[Dave M]

So, you mean the knob labelled "gain" on the input of the Scarlett 2i2 ?

Set that to "zero" ?

I wonder about that, too. I don't understand what that's supposed to mean, for a number of basic reasons. Obvously, the "gain" control on your interface will need to be adjusted whether the input is receiving 120mv or maybe 400mv from the instrument/mic/etc.

 

[Ben Waylin]

I wonder about that, too. I don't understand what that's supposed to mean, for a number of basic reasons. Obvously, the "gain" control on your interface will need to be adjusted whether the input is receiving 120mv or maybe 400mv from the instrument/mic/etc.

There's a discussion goin on at the other place about all of this.

Evidently, some vendors are more forthcoming than others about the "desired" input level to their software plugins.

 

[Dave M]

There's a discussion goin on at the other place about all of this.

Evidently, some vendors are more forthcoming than others about the "desired" input level to their software plugins.

OK, and I wonder if that's what easstudios is referring to -- the software/plugin input gain control, which would be the next control in the gain staging chain after the interface.

edit: I should correct myself. The plugin may not be the next in the chain (could be channel strip, etc.), but is still after the interface.

 

[Ben Waylin]

OK, and I wonder if that's what easstudios is referring to -- the software/plugin input gain control, which would be the next control in the gain staging chain.

Right, hence my query.

I'm always trying to improve my digital recording knowledge.

 

[easstudios]

So, you mean the knob labelled "gain" on the input of the Scarlett 2i2 ?

Set that to "zero" ?

Exactly - with the gain at the lowest setting, the interface has 12dBu of headroom. This means that the input can take roughly 3V of signal from your guitar before it clips.

If you turn the gain up, your headroom will decrease, but you won’t know exactly what the headroom is unless you measure it (using sine waves and multimeters).

Neural DSP made it easy for people with the most common interfaces - they purposefully set their internal levels so that the most common interfaces will have accurate levels for their plugins.

If you know your headroom is 12dBu, you can plug in ANY guitar or pedal or synth or theremin or electric banjo etc and you can have the exact same response gain wise as plugging directly into their reference amp.

Not all plugins use this same calibration - for other plugins you might need to boost or cut a certain amount to have an accurate response from the amp. For STL you’d need to boost 7dB, for Line 6 Helix, you’d need to boost 0.5dB etc

 

[easstudios]

I’d actually go so far as saying, if you’re using ANY instrument input on an interface just set the gain to 0 and record like that.

That theory of maximising signal to noise isn’t going to benefit you when the signal is already at a healthy level and other noises are going to be involved. Good luck getting EMI/RFI interference low enough where your converter’s noise is causing you issues.

If you have your gain at 0, you’ll know EXACTLY what your input headroom is, meaning you can use different modelling plugins and have an accurate gain response from each. So many people write off pretty decent plugins because they’re feeding it WAY too quiet of a level. Some need a really hot signal, much hotter than you’d be able to track with (plugins don’t have the headroom limitations of converters).

It also means for reamping you can set your reamp chain for unity and reamp tones for other people without levels being different to if the guitar was plugged directly into the amp. If you don’t know the headroom of the chain it was originally recorded through, it’s not possible to work it out later.

You can dial stuff in to just sound good too but if you want the most accuracy and the same amount of gain and the closest feel to the real amp, then this shit is essential.

OK, and I wonder if that's what easstudios is referring to -- the software/plugin input gain control, which would be the next control in the gain staging chain after the interface.

edit: I should correct myself. The plugin may not be the next in the chain (could be channel strip, etc.), but is still after the interface.

As in, on your interface, the knob that adjusts the input level going into the computer. All converters have their own definition of what digital level they'll produce from the same analog signal. So if the analog signal was the same, on one converter it could be almost clipping, and other it could have 20dB of headroom still. The plugins have no idea what converter you are using, so thats why this calibration is necessary.

 

[Ben Waylin]

Exactly - with the gain at the lowest setting, the interface has 12dBu of headroom. This means that the input can take roughly 3V of signal from your guitar before it clips.

If you turn the gain up, your headroom will decrease, but you won’t know exactly what the headroom is unless you measure it (using sine waves and multimeters).

Neural DSP made it easy for people with the most common interfaces - they purposefully set their internal levels so that the most common interfaces will have accurate levels for their plugins.

If you know your headroom is 12dBu, you can plug in ANY guitar or pedal or synth or theremin or electric banjo etc and you can have the exact same response gain wise as plugging directly into their reference amp.

Not all plugins use this same calibration - for other plugins you might need to boost or cut a certain amount to have an accurate response from the amp. For STL you’d need to boost 7dB, for Line 6 Helix, you’d need to boost 0.5dB etc

That's interesting because after much experimentation I've learned to set the input gain knob at about "1" for my best results.

I'll try some tests with it at zero and see what that's like.

 

[easstudios]

That's interesting because after much experimentation I've learned to set the input gain knob at about "1" for my best results.

I'll try some tests with it at zero and see what that's like.

What interface are you using? and with which plugins?