New GNR : what you all think

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Bob Ezrin did.

In around 1999/2000 the label brought Ezrin in to get Chinese Democracy back on track. When he got to the studio he found everyone sat around the entire day, on the clock, waiting for Axl to show up, who would come in after midnight. The band would jam and record ideas, and Axl would work on them in Pro Tools.

Ezrin told the label to tell Axl, he will do this if he wants but only on the condition that Axl works with him. Axl agreed and was enthusiastic about the partnership. Ezrin listened to the rough mixes and came to a pretty damning conclusion.... they had maybe three songs worth releasing. When he was finally able to speak to Axl, he told him so. He said the original ideas had been rerecorded and labored over for so long they had lost all meaning. Axl disagreed and felt they were ready to mix. Ezrin told him that if he wanted to work with him he has his number, and left. He never heard from Axl again.

In the aftermath Axl felt his confidence was crushed and he started recording the whole album again from scratch, and again after. Bassist Tommy Stinson said the album was recorded in full at least three times. Most of the songs that ended up on the album, released in 2008, had already been written and recorded by 1999.
It’s funny to think of Axl doing this as someone who had been just about the biggest rock star in the world. As a nobody I have done it to myself many times and have pretty much only ever finished songs if other people are actively involved and provide the impetus to say it’s done and we have to move on. It’s just wild to think someone like Axl who should feel confident as anyone could be a victim of his own insecurity like any of us, and to the point it more or less destroyed him as an artist.
 
It's like Paul McCartney's last album. You need someone to tell you this sucks, even when you're a huge star. Axl - this sucks. And not because it doesn't sound like Appetite, it's just a terrible recording of a terrible song, genre and era be damned.
 
It's like Paul McCartney's last album. You need someone to tell you this sucks, even when you're a huge star. Axl - this sucks. And not because it doesn't sound like Appetite, it's just a terrible recording of a terrible song, genre and era be damned.
What Ezrin said is very important- the way Axl treated the songs from the beginning robbed them of anything that might have made them decent songs. Sitting on a computer and fucking around without a clear and direct sense of what this should be and losing any energy of “the moment” that is important in rock music.

It’s possible to have songs kicking around for years with no problem, but I think once you go through the process of recording them and “completing” the creative process of production where you try to wring out the core of what’s good in a song, there is something lost afterwards if you keep revisiting and rerunning it.

I think it was clear after the UYI albums Axl became lost in a desire he had to be relevant to the trends of the music industry and ironically made himself irrelevant.
 
I knew we could count on you to chime in with a contrarian take.


i just call things as i see them :dunno: this forum is funny.. everyone complains everything sounds the same, but then they get pumped on other bands from the era putting out the most cookie cutter shit and think its cool "they are still doing it" and are knocking over old ladies as they run to ticketmaster to buy tickets at 9am when macys opens. Guns though actually does something a little different and its the worst thing ever and someone needs to tell them to retire :LOL:
 
I think it was clear after the UYI albums Axl became lost in a desire he had to be relevant to the trends of the music industry and ironically made himself irrelevant.
Good observation. I would agree.
 
i just call things as i see them :dunno: this forum is funny.. everyone complains everything sounds the same, but then they get pumped on other bands from the era putting out the most cookie cutter shit and think its cool "they are still doing it" and are knocking over old ladies as they run to ticketmaster to buy tickets at 9am when macys opens. Guns though actually does something a little different and its the worst thing ever and someone needs to tell them to retire :LOL:
I get where you are coming from but people these days have the idea that being different automatically makes something good. The reason there are cookie cutter formulas is because they work. Analyze a song on it's merits not related to past achievements and this song is still crap royale. If it was a new band you'd be panning this hard.

Once Axl became one of those cigarette holder turds he lost touch with what made it cool. What made it cool was they were a bunch of street urchins making straight up rock n roll. Now the dude probably lives in a gated community up in his ivory tower, completely out of touch.
 
I get where you are coming from but people these days have the idea that being different automatically makes something good. The reason there are cookie cutter formulas is because they work. Analyze a song on it's merits not related to past achievements and this song is still crap royale. If it was a new band you'd be panning this hard.

Once Axl became one of those cigarette holder turds he lost touch with what made it cool. What made it cool was they were a bunch of street urchins making straight up rock n roll. Now the dude probably lives in a gated community up in his ivory tower, completely out of touch.


im not hearing what is so crappy, especially now analyzing a few times through my monitors. the bass sounds great, the chorus has the classic left and right guitar thing they do, the song has a vibe and flows. its not gonna make my top guns songs list, and the production might not be exactly what i would have done but to me its a breath of fresh air. why there wasnt a solo in the bridge im not sure, a classic slash solo there would have really set it off. i at least wanted to go back and listen a few times unlike say the new sebastian bach song which i knew what was gonna sound like before i even heard it.
 
im not hearing what is so crappy, especially now analyzing a few times through my monitors. the bass sounds great, the chorus has the classic left and right guitar thing they do, the song has a vibe and flows. its not gonna make my top guns songs list, and the production might not be exactly what i would have done but to me its a breath of fresh air. why there wasnt a solo in the bridge im not sure, a classic slash solo there would have really set it off. i at least wanted to go back and listen a few times unlike say the new sebastian bach song which i knew what was gonna sound like before i even heard it.

It doesn't sound like classic guns. It's sounds like crap. Slash's guitar is mostly buried.

You were talking about formulas.....I'm not a rock guy but one of my favorite music quotes is from Angus Young: "People say we've made the same record 13 times. Actually, it's 14".

He was wise not to deviate from the recipe for success. Formulaic, sure. But he never alienated his audience. Imagine if they put out some dreck like this. People were pissed about Brian Johnson but I thought he did a good job sticking to the game plan. I can't imagine the pushback if they went this route. Some stuff should be buried in a vault and never see the light of day. I'd say this tune qualifies.
 
i just call things as i see them :dunno: this forum is funny.. everyone complains everything sounds the same, but then they get pumped on other bands from the era putting out the most cookie cutter shit and think its cool "they are still doing it" and are knocking over old ladies as they run to ticketmaster to buy tickets at 9am when macys opens. Guns though actually does something a little different and its the worst thing ever and someone needs to tell them to retire :LOL:
lol I’m not knocking you, I just knew you would chime in and say you liked it.
 
It's like Paul McCartney's last album. You need someone to tell you this sucks, even when you're a huge star. Axl - this sucks. And not because it doesn't sound like Appetite, it's just a terrible recording of a terrible song, genre and era be damned.

mic drop boom meme.png
 
I like the first part with the synth but the theme and the the way the vocals are played out are not the path I would choose.I do like the first synth to needs some Grrrrrrrrr tho with the vocals .Resurrect some Wayne static needs a push.Just a thought.Always loved Axels voice.Maybe a Christmas carol with say ????????
 
It doesn't sound like classic guns. It's sounds like crap. Slash's guitar is mostly buried.

You were talking about formulas.....I'm not a rock guy but one of my favorite music quotes is from Angus Young: "People say we've made the same record 13 times. Actually, it's 14".

He was wise not to deviate from the recipe for success. Formulaic, sure. But he never alienated his audience. Imagine if they put out some dreck like this. People were pissed about Brian Johnson but I thought he did a good job sticking to the game plan. I can't imagine the pushback if they went this route. Some stuff should be buried in a vault and never see the light of day. I'd say this tune qualifies.

Angus is right. AC/DC knew their lane and by staying in it they made tons of incredible music. They still pack stadiums for a reason. Axl SANG in AC/DC FFS, so that experience should have been a wakeup call for him to get back to doing what GNR was good at.
 
and guns dosent??
Yes, they do, but their new music is a joke compared to the music that made them great. If AC/DC puts out a new record, I know what to expect. With GNR, I almost dread to hit the play button on new tracks.
 
lol I’m not knocking you, I just knew you would chime in and say you liked it.


first listen in my truck yesterday i said what everyone else is saying, like wtf is this?? this dosent sound like GNR. that "wtf" though made me want to go back and listen again, and though it leaves a lot to be desired i dont think its horrible at all. id rather hear this "new" version of GNR and have something to process rather than a bullshit attempt to make Appetite Pt2 with shittier versions of songs ive already heard before.
 
It’s funny to think of Axl doing this as someone who had been just about the biggest rock star in the world. As a nobody I have done it to myself many times and have pretty much only ever finished songs if other people are actively involved and provide the impetus to say it’s done and we have to move on. It’s just wild to think someone like Axl who should feel confident as anyone could be a victim of his own insecurity like any of us, and to the point it more or less destroyed him as an artist.

Slash's book goes into great detail about the writing process in Guns and their group dynamic.

From their formation to the release of Appetite they were destitute and borderline criminal low lives who associated with strippers, hookers, bikers, drug dealers (for obvious reasons) and other lost souls. Duff was the most well-put together, as he always had a job and a live-in girlfriend and was merely an alcoholic. The rest of them lived transient lifestyles, either crashing at known party houses, shacking up with strippers or living in a storage unit behind Guitar Center, which was their jam space.

The band was the core of their social circle, they lived, worked and partied together. Most of the people around them, who lived the same lifestyle but didn't have their ambitions, ended up sucked into heroin addiction and other life-ruining vices. One of these people was immortalized in "My Michelle," and she eventually got out of LA and started a family.

It was in this environment that the songs for Appetite For Destruction, and many for Use Your Illusion, were written. The band was a singular, functioning working unit. Steven, Slash and Izzy all had heroin problems and Axl was insane but they functioned. Slash got off heroin for the recording of Appetite and stayed off for the tour.

After the Appetite For Destruction tour the band went on a break. This is where it all fell apart, because they were no longer that same united gang. This was the first time since forming that they put the band on pause for a bit and went their separate ways, and it almost destroyed the band. Slash went deep into heroin for two years. Izzy hit rock bottom and went back to Indiana to get sober. Steven completely disintegrated on drugs. And Axl withdrew from all of them. Without that common goal, that immediate fight to survive, their bonds slackened and never really pulled back.

The band moved to Chicago to be closer to Izzy, who was still too fragile to feel safe in LA. The band moved out there... but Axl didn't come out for weeks and Izzy didn't either. So they were just jamming and partying without Axl or Izzy. Eventually the five got together, but by then Slash was fed up and went back to LA, which Axl never forgive him for. Eventually Slash got off heroin and the band were able to reconvene at his house. They took stock off all their material, songs that pre-dated Appetite ("Don't Cry" and "November Rain," which was supposed to be on Appetite but was bumped for "Sweet Child O' Mine," which is another thing Axl resented), songs that had been written during the Appetite sessions and tour ("Perfect Crime," "You Could Be Mine," "Civil War") and songs that had been written in Chicago ("Estranged" and "Get in the Ring"). Slash wanted to pick the best twelve and polish them up, but Axl wanted a double-album. Slash's concession was that they be released separately (funny how CD changed perspectives so quickly - both Use Your Illusion I and II were each released on vinyl as double albums, so Use Your Illusion was really a quad album).

When UYI was recorded the band as a whole recorded a song a day, then Slash rerecorded all of his guitar parts. When he finished he left the studio and Axl came in to do his vocals.... the next time Slash heard the music, there were massive amounts of key, orchestration and backing vocals all over the album. Slash lamented it and wished the original versions were available somewhere, although he acknowledged the quality of it all. All of it had been programmed and performed by Axl, by himself. There was also a new track on the album, "My World," which was the result of Axl doing a shitload of mushrooms in the studio. Izzy didn't know about it until the album came out and it was a breaking point for him.

After the UYI tour the band struggled to find their footing in the studio. Izzy had quit, and he had been the only person who could get through to Axl. Duff was now sober after his pancreas had exploded, so Slash didn't really have anyone to drink and party with. Axl took complete control over the band, and this is where it became the band sitting around and jamming, waiting for Axl to show up. It got to the point where Slash just hung out at the strip club around the corner and had a messenger tell him when Axl had showed up. Massive amounts of money were being burned with no productivity. When Axl did show up he didn't actually sing, he just sat and listened as they recorded into Pro-Tools. Then after they left he'd stay up all night "working on it." Slash on his own recorded demos of new songs, which Axl rejected, so that became the first Snakepit album.

The holding pattern remained for years. Gilby was fired by Axl without approval from anyone. Slash quit in 96. Duff quit in 97, frustrated that after three years of work there wasn't a single song. Matt was fired in 97 for telling Axl that there is no Guns without Slash. And this is the situation Ezrin saw when he arrived on the scene years later.

Once Axl became one of those cigarette holder turds he lost touch with what made it cool. What made it cool was they were a bunch of street urchins making straight up rock n roll. Now the dude probably lives in a gated community up in his ivory tower, completely out of touch.
This is the problem with all bands who come "from the streets."

When being a gutter rat is just a marketing image they can maintain it forever. But Guns lived that lifestyle, and it wasn't necessarily by choice. There are many moments on Appetite that lament their lifestyle and wish for something nicer. That's why they never worried about November Rain and Estranged and Patience fucking up their image, their image was just a reflection of who they were and who they were changed.

Same thing happened to Metallica. Their schtick was that they climbed out of the pit onto the stage, but once they were megazillionaires they can't project that same image and be honest about it. They wound up pigeonholed in thrash, and alienated their original fanbase more and more with every new album they put out. Like, fuck them for wanting to put out hard rock tunes? Fuck them for not wanting to deal with long ass hair anymore? Can't win.
 
I don’t like the song at all. But the thing that kinda irritates me is that there’s no way he could pull it off live.

I don’t see the point of putting something like this out and then totally butchering an off script song live.
 
im not hearing what is so crappy, especially now analyzing a few times through my monitors. the bass sounds great, the chorus has the classic left and right guitar thing they do, the song has a vibe and flows. its not gonna make my top guns songs list, and the production might not be exactly what i would have done but to me its a breath of fresh air. why there wasnt a solo in the bridge im not sure, a classic slash solo there would have really set it off. i at least wanted to go back and listen a few times unlike say the new sebastian bach song which i knew what was gonna sound like before i even heard it.thin
I thinks it . Would be cool a full album . Bus a stand alone single is what the problem is . You would not believe how many rose really ate up Chinese Democracy and crave more of it . There was so many waiting to hear . And that’s the problem. He is only catering the Chinese democracy lovers . I’ve been s part of their Reddit for years .chinese democracy has a fan base . Me being one . If you listen to for what it is it’s. Sorry I went off on a tangent
 
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