Optimal way to write an ad looking for band members?

[BigGuitars]

Forgive me if this is in the wrong section.

I’m trying to write up a good CL ad to look for prospective band members. I’m trying to come up with the best wording so as to attract the right sorts of individuals.

Ultimately, I’m trying to find profesionally-minded, ambitious players who aren’t losers (like 99% of “musicians” are), who want to work hard, and also understand how successful bands/organizations work. In every successful endeavor, there is clear-cut leadership, and there is also an agreed-upon stylistic direction that every member must understand and agree to. Yes, there is a sense in which every member “gets their say”, but successful ventures are not “free-for-alls” or complete democracies. There must be a clear-cut leader, and a clear direction that is agreed upon by all members. That’s just the way it is.

Since I’m coming into this with a fairly large amount financial capital out of my own pocket to invest into this band, and since I’m the one initiating the formation of this band, I will ultimately be the leader and in control of the band. In other words, it will de facto be my band.

I’m looking for a more concise way to say what I just said without sounding like a control freak or turning people off. But I just want to be up front with how this is going to work, and to attract real musicians to reply. Guys who understand how this works, and are going to conduct themselves professionally.

Also, just tips on constructing a good ad that will draw higher-caliber players would be much appreciated. I want my ad to stand out from the other lame ads and generate interest

Thanks.

 

[CornNutz]

Oh boy. You might as well be asking for world peace, and a cure for cancer.

Spent 15 years doing serious band thing. I'll give you my experience, and advice.

0). You need to get active in a local music scene, go to shows, meet people, create relationships. <<< This is the key
1). Don't come across like a dictator.
2). Convey your desires, like you mentioned.
3). Just expect most people are going to have direction differences, and you'll have to compromise. Unless you just plan on paying them.


You are going to get a lot of flakes, you'll just have to weed through them. If you find someone that is reliable, but lacking in the ability, figure out if they might have the ability to grow, and become a better player. Young guys/gals are very good candidates to become better players. Older guys tend to be stuck.

 

[dirtyfunkg]

Everything he said ^ plus the following...

Do you intend to pay the players beyond just a cut of earnings? Because if you are, then just advertise that you're essentially looking for session guys. That makes it a lot easier. You'll get professionals who will do your bidding and you're good to go.

If you're looking for people who are in it for the fun of it (and are ambitious about building a band, brand, etc) and are alright with some sweat equity, then, well, you need to figure out how to sell this with more nuance.

There are some really important things you'll need to keep in mind:

1. I don't know you, and I don't know how good a guitarist, songwriter, singer, etc that you are. Keep this in mind as you read the next points. There's nothing personal intended here.
2. How fragile is your ego?
a. Are you okay with more talented folks being in the band?
b. Do you expect to be the primary songwriter? The only songwriter? Or are you planning to be a cover band?
c. If it's a 4 piece band and the other three people are on one side of a decision and you're on the other, will you override them?
3. What are your goals out of this?
a. Do you expect/intend to make a profit?
b. Just enjoy performing in front of a crowd every so often, but the money really doesn't matter?
c. Recording original music and creating new art?
4. How do you intend for gig money to be split? Will you get a bigger cut?
5. After you've answered all of the above (and I'm sure more questions), you'll need to think through what incentive your bandmates would have in joining up with you.

Most bands with a clear-cut leader have that leader not due to financing, but because they had earned the right to lead. Whether it's writing good songs, booking solid gigs, running rehearsals in fun but productive way... it's almost never because they sunk more money into running the band.

That's my $0.02. Good luck.

 

[BigGuitars]

Everything he said ^ plus the following...

Do you intend to pay the players beyond just a cut of earnings? Because if you are, then just advertise that you're essentially looking for session guys. That makes it a lot easier. You'll get professionals who will do your bidding and you're good to go.

If you're looking for people who are in it for the fun of it (and are ambitious about building a band, brand, etc) and are alright with some sweat equity, then, well, you need to figure out how to sell this with more nuance.

There are some really important things you'll need to keep in mind:

1. I don't know you, and I don't know how good a guitarist, songwriter, singer, etc that you are. Keep this in mind as you read the next points. There's nothing personal intended here.
2. How fragile is your ego?
a. Are you okay with more talented folks being in the band?
b. Do you expect to be the primary songwriter? The only songwriter? Or are you planning to be a cover band?
c. If it's a 4 piece band and the other three people are on one side of a decision and you're on the other, will you override them?
3. What are your goals out of this?
a. Do you expect/intend to make a profit?
b. Just enjoy performing in front of a crowd every so often, but the money really doesn't matter?
c. Recording original music and creating new art?
4. How do you intend for gig money to be split? Will you get a bigger cut?
5. After you've answered all of the above (and I'm sure more questions), you'll need to think through what incentive your bandmates would have in joining up with you.

Most bands with a clear-cut leader have that leader not due to financing, but because they had earned the right to lead. Whether it's writing good songs, booking solid gigs, running rehearsals in fun but productive way... it's almost never because they sunk more money into running the band.

That's my $0.02. Good luck.

Very good questions and points.

I’ll let you be the judge of my talent/skill.
https://youtu.be/1TjH5AuWENY

As for the other points. I DO intend to try to make a profit and build the band into a contending brand. I intend to be 100% independent and self-promoting using all of the various distributions and social platforms available today. Gig earnings I’m more than happy to split equally between all band members, and perhaps “pad” their gig earnings a bit with my own out-of-pocket money, but I can’t commit to paying wages/salaries that your typical session player would ask for.

I plan to be one of two primary songwriters in the band (me and the lead vocalist). Perhaps a songwriting partnership of some sort. Looking to have rhythm section that performs their role, adds to the sound, but has very little pull in major decisions (most bands I’ve ever loved were like this with some exceptions, like Iron Maiden, but Steve Harris formed the band and invested more time, energy, and money than any other member, making him the de facto band leader).

My ego can be fairly fragile at times, but I’m far more humble than your typical musician. I think having some form if fragile ego and vulnerability just goes with being a musician. We’re all trying to impress and put ourselves out there. But I’m pretty standard on that front.

I also don’t agree that being the largest investor or risk-taker in the band doesn’t make you the leader. I don’t see how it doesn’t,

 

[CornNutz]

Also perhaps try to find people with different ethnicity than your own. This could help you break through those personal issues we talked about in a different thread.

 

[japetus]

Write and write and write. If your music is good, you will find musicians to play. Let everything else fall into place. Having a ton of material takes care of 95% of the problems you will ever encounter in a band.

 

[BigGuitars]

Also perhaps try to find people with different ethnicity than your own. This could help you break through those personal issues we talked about in a different thread.

You haven’t the first clue what my foundational views are, or how I arrived at them, nor do you even come close to understanding them. It is YOU who has the incorrect and unethical views on the aforementioned topic. Not me. You don’t even understand the terms you use.

Please, don’t drag this thread down with this topic. I asked specifically about constructing ads. This was a cheap shot by you. DON’T reply to this. Just stay out of this thread man. That is the most polite way I know to put it. Just leave it be.

 

[sleewell2]

i keep ads short and throw in a funny meme. but i always call people and need clips before having them out to audition.

way easier to weed people out that way rather some really long and wordy ad that will just look like a red flag for most people.

 

[CornNutz]

Also perhaps try to find people with different ethnicity than your own. This could help you break through those personal issues we talked about in a different thread.

You haven’t the first clue what my foundational views are

Actually you spelled your views out pretty well, so I do have a clue. But I will respect your wishes, and stay out of your thread from this point on.

 

[stratjacket]

I think it’s like selling any idea, spell out what’s in it for them. Describe what you want, then why a musician that meets that “want” should join.

Most folks need two pieces of info for anything: 1) what do I need to do and 2) what’s in it for me if I do it

 

[PBGas]

...........

 

[BigGuitars]

I’m not looking for hired guns. I want the members to be dedicated to this band, rather than just punching a clock and collecting a check.

That said, I still hold to the notion that if I’m the primary financial provider for the band, and the initiator of its formation, then it’s my band, and I’m ultimately in control of it.

However, I defer to people a lot. I am not a dictator.

I have definitely considered what somebody said above, which is start composing a ton of material before forming the band, which is what I’m currently trying to do. I’m just try to figure out how best to word everything I’ve just said into an ad that attracts high-quality players/people.

If you check out the vids on my channel you’ll see I’m no slouch skill-wise, but I know there’s better players out there. However, I think my skills and writing ability are up there, and that my leadership would be of a high-Competence.

 

[frontline205]

This reminds me of my own situation recently. Over the fall I put together a 4 piece with my girlfriend being the bassist. She was also the least skilled member of the band as well. Anyway meet up with a drummer and he brought along a guitarist that I knew from certain circles, and knew the moment he came this probably wouldn't work out. I had written modern thrash, and he was a more a power metal guy, super technical, and he was amazing the best musician in our group, but never had anything written unlike myself. I provided the original songs practice space, and even had the drum set. Sometimes I would even loan my my extra amp and guitars so that no one else needed to even bring gear.
Anyway we clashed a lot with a lot being in the air with nothing being said. He usually would criticize anything I brought to write saying how "plan" it was or how it stayed in one key. I would usually put out there to lets all get together and learn your stuff, and it just went to crap with him leaving and taking the drummer with him. I was pissed and upset with myself and my situation, and felt if I had been better maybe I could've kept my band together, or been more professional and not have a bass player I wasn't dating.

Sorry to hijack your thread I say all this to say learn from my mistake, be super upfront in your ad. If I had been straight and said I'm into straight hard thrashy metal maybe I could've avoided that. Your way ahead of myself however my songs were half written and I wanted to make it a democracy but that left me open for the criticism and created too many chief. After everything I sat down knocked out an entire set of material recorded everything. I actually learned how to set up mics, and mix. I had something to show people and a set list ready of all original material that was concrete. I had my other musician friends give it a listen. Most of them noticed that my newer stuff got way more technical since I worked with the other guitarist. I was ready to go again and it got way easier to find people. I had people who knew what I wanted and who only had to come in and learn my stuff. It cut out a lot of arguing. Still need that drummer though.

 

[BigGuitars]

Good point @frontline205.

I want to be crystal clear from the outset. No room for misinterpretation, or attracting people who will not fit. I’ve made the mistake of being too open in the past too. Businesses/bands/organizations simply don’t work this way. Film crews may be comprised of many different crews/teams/individuals working on different aspects of the project, but at the end of the day, there is one director who is ultimately in control of the project, and who has the final say in how it’s done. There is a film studio and corporation above him who is in control even more so than him. These smaller crews and individuals working to bring the film to life don’t have their own freedom to do exactly as they want. They have to do what the authority wants them to do.

NOTHING successful can be a democracy. I don’t even believe countries should be democracies (at least not total democracies). You cannot expand a say so to anyone and everyone. Not everyone is equally fit or competent to lead or make decisions for the betterment of the whole thing. There needs to be defined authority and leadership.

 

[crankyrayhanky]

Yes, you can claim yourself as the Director. But on the small clip I watched, I see a lot of arpeggio skill but no evidence of great songwriting. You likely need 15-20 ready to go songs because at least half of them won't work. So if you're not theremaybe you're cool with other people taking over the reigns and offering up material? IME a lot of directors insist to be the only songwriter while simultaneously not having many songs. I hope this is not you. Songwriting is the biggest hurdle of any group.

But if are putting up the $, you obviously have the main say in where you play and other business decisions. Because no one else in the band will ever chip in once they know this lol

 

[crankyrayhanky]

oh as for the ad, try to keep it as short as possible with the vital info listed. Put more details in the response email. The first thing in the response email should ask is "did you listen to the clips?". Because most people do not. These people often will want to talk rock philosophy on the phone for an hour or meet you for coffee. F that. Everyone of them was a complete waste of time. The successful people usually email and ask when and where and get right to it

 

[skullfxr]

Also perhaps try to find people with different ethnicity than your own. This could help you break through those personal issues we talked about in a different thread.

You haven’t the first clue what my foundational views are, or how I arrived at them, nor do you even come close to understanding them. It is YOU who has the incorrect and unethical views on the aforementioned topic. Not me. You don’t even understand the terms you use.

Please, don’t drag this thread down with this topic. I asked specifically about constructing ads. This was a cheap shot by you. DON’T reply to this. Just stay out of this thread man. That is the most polite way I know to put it. Just leave it be.

Just that shows the traits that don't work in a band.

 

[Markedman]

Also perhaps try to find people with different ethnicity than your own. This could help you break through those personal issues we talked about in a different thread.

You haven’t the first clue what my foundational views are, or how I arrived at them, nor do you even come close to understanding them. It is YOU who has the incorrect and unethical views on the aforementioned topic. Not me. You don’t even understand the terms you use.

Please, don’t drag this thread down with this topic. I asked specifically about constructing ads. This was a cheap shot by you. DON’T reply to this. Just stay out of this thread man. That is the most polite way I know to put it. Just leave it be.I want to be crystal clear from the outset. No room for misinterpretation, or attracting people who will not fit. I’ve made the mistake of being too open in the past too. Businesses/bands/organizations simply don’t work this way. Film crews may be comprised of many different crews/teams/individuals working on different aspects of the project, but at the end of the day, there is one director who is ultimately in control of the project, and who has the final say in how it’s done. There is a film studio and corporation above him who is in control even more so than him. These smaller crews and individuals working to bring the film to life don’t have their own freedom to do exactly as they want. They have to do what the authority wants them to do.

NOTHING successful can be a democracy. I don’t even believe countries should be democracies (at least not total democracies). You cannot expand a say so to anyone and everyone. Not everyone is equally fit or competent to lead or make decisions for the betterment of the whole thing. There needs to be defined authority and leadership.

[/quote]


Well then.

 

[BigGuitars]

Also perhaps try to find people with different ethnicity than your own. This could help you break through those personal issues we talked about in a different thread.

You haven’t the first clue what my foundational views are, or how I arrived at them, nor do you even come close to understanding them. It is YOU who has the incorrect and unethical views on the aforementioned topic. Not me. You don’t even understand the terms you use.

Please, don’t drag this thread down with this topic. I asked specifically about constructing ads. This was a cheap shot by you. DON’T reply to this. Just stay out of this thread man. That is the most polite way I know to put it. Just leave it be.

Just that shows the traits that don't work in a band.

No. Bringing this up in this thread which is completely irrelevant to the topic was a cheap shot on his part. Him and I argued in a off-topic thread. I was right to tell him to get lost.

 

[skullfxr]

I have been a tech/engineer for two bands in the past few years. I tech'd ran sound and did some tear up and breakdown stuff. Both times, thank God I wasn't in the band. Both were blues rock bands and I stood in on bass on occasion on the second of the two.

Both times I was hired after they were formed,they had already rehearsed and had some shows down and a decent 90ish minute set.

Situation one: pay wasn't consistent for me. Fuck that. You can't say that you are going to pay me $100 and not honor that. I don't care if you did not bring enough people in the door. You tell me what you pay. Then that is what I get. Six gigs, forgave it twice. Then I told them to shove it.

Situation two: I was getting paid, but the vocalist/backing guitarist just had it out for the lead guitarist (imagine that lol). They dissolved but I got my pay.

I have played in bands too, but thought I'd show the other side of the coin.