Pinch harmonics on the VH4

[King Crimson]

must be the eq

I say its karma.

It's analogous to the effect of imparting a dynamic sonic rejoinder experiencing a force that experiences acceleration. This is related to the equal and opposite mass and volume of the sonic owner. This structure is where the sonic exposition of the present karma in question and body are relatively disparate. On the other hand, the karma in question is equal to the time derivative of momentum to the sonic bearer and constraint in general.

Peace

 

[DiezelMonster]

I was playing devils advocate, simply because I see alot of people blame equipment for thier shortcomings when in fact its technique that is the culprit *I work in a music store and SEE/HEAR it everyday!!!!
I know he was talking about the VH4 hence my ending statement.

keep blaming the amp and gear!

I was using the Herbert as a frame of reference based on the fact I have owned a Diezel before....

C

~devils advocate time~

I think it has more to do with the players technique than the amp, I'm able to pull of pinch harmonics on clean amps let alone anything with gain. I spent alot of time working on it and studying Billy Gibbons, Dimebag *RIP* and pretty much any other player that does them and just really listened.

There are so many harmonics available on the guitar you should be able to get them just about anywhere and even more so with high gain. I used to own a Diezel Herbert and it was stupid how easy it was to get them, even on the lowest gain setting on Mike Fortin's Bones I was able to rip them out.

now I can't play for shit otherwise but ah well! I can do all sorts of fancy gimmicks!

anyhow dude I'm not sayin you are doing it wrong or anything, and not disputing it might be hard on that amp, but 99.999999% of the time I find it's technique!

just food for thought.

At least you have a VH4! that's pretty fuckin Rad!

C

You can't play Devil's Advocate when we're talking about the VH4 and you're talking about the Herbert. Pinch Harmonics are easy for me on other rigs, but the VH4... just don't happen easily for me.

 

[proxmax]

sorry to say, this discussion is embarrassing!
working on finger technics will help more than discrediting a great amp.

in germany we say:
a bad horseman blames the horse!

 

[gibsonrich]

I dont see anyone blaming the amp. Its a valid question..I didnt start the thread but I as well wondered if anyone else noticed the issue. knowbody is putting down the amp
I love my vh4s.. it sounds better than any amp I have played..
I noticed the same thing though.. as much gain as it has its a little hard to get the pinch harmonics compared to my other amps. I am not saying my technique is perfect but I read this thread and I am going through the same thing.. I have been playing for 30 years and I know my limitations. I have over 10 pre amps - various ada's, mesa boogie pre amp, carvin quad x etc..
maybe its the tubes? it just seems harder for me to get the harmonics..
thats ok though, the beautiful tone I get out of this thing makes up for that small issue I am having.

 

[FourT6and2]

Exactly. Nobody is blaming the amp for their own shortcomings. And nobody is "discrediting a great amp." Speaking of horses, all of you thinking we are blaming the gear need to get off your high one. Pinch harmonics are hard for some of us to get on the VH4 COMPARED to some other amps we may have played. Don't read into that statement any more than what is written. The inherent voicing and character of the VH4 seems to make it harder to pull off pinch harmonics COMPARED to some other amps. While the VH4 is a very compressed amp, it also is not that saturated, again COMPARED to some other high-gainers out there.

I can get better pinches if I turn up the presence to about 2:30 - 3:00 and bump the gain up past 2:00 as well. But, that may not be the tone I'm after ( I like to run the gain and presence lower, tone-wise).

Oh well.

 

[proxmax]

never talked to s.o. personally.
generally lacking technics are the problem coming up oftener.

 

[Obiwan]

could eventually a higher gain v1 tube help a little bit? something more sensible to feedbacks and stuff like that? the vh4 is generally a very quiet amp, so perhaps it wouldn't affect the tone too much and on the other hand help to get better results in pinching, just my 2cents

 

[Duolos]

This is a technique topic, not an amp topic. If the technique is applied properly you can pull this stuff of on acoustic guitars or unplugged electrics. The lower your action the harder it can be to a degree. I would think you would have no problem based on an amp.

 

[gibsonrich]

This is a technique topic, not an amp topic. If the technique is applied properly you can pull this stuff of on acoustic guitars or unplugged electrics. The lower your action the harder it can be to a degree. I would think you would have no problem based on an amp.

its an amp topic. he doesnt say he cant do pinch harmonics, he says its harder for him to get pinch harmonics out of the vh4 than his other amps. he wants to know if this is typical for this amp and what he can do to improve it.
there were some helpful suggestions.. - different tubes, eq, pickups etc

 

[White_Van]

This is a technique topic, not an amp topic. If the technique is applied properly you can pull this stuff of on acoustic guitars or unplugged electrics. The lower your action the harder it can be to a degree. I would think you would have no problem based on an amp.

its an amp topic. he doesnt say he cant do pinch harmonics, he says its harder for him to get pinch harmonics out of the vh4 than his other amps. he wants to know if this is typical for this amp and what he can do to improve it.
there were some helpful suggestions.. - different tubes, eq, pickups etc

Precisely. If all the variables but the amp are the same, i.e. the guitar, cables, technique etc. and one amp seems to be more conducive to pinch harmonics, then it stands to reason the amps may have different capabilities.

It's not a slander against the VH4, it's just a statement of fact.

 

[FourT6and2]

This is a technique topic, not an amp topic. If the technique is applied properly you can pull this stuff of on acoustic guitars or unplugged electrics. The lower your action the harder it can be to a degree. I would think you would have no problem based on an amp.

its an amp topic. he doesnt say he cant do pinch harmonics, he says its harder for him to get pinch harmonics out of the vh4 than his other amps. he wants to know if this is typical for this amp and what he can do to improve it.
there were some helpful suggestions.. - different tubes, eq, pickups etc

Precisely. If all the variables but the amp are the same, i.e. the guitar, cables, technique etc. and one amp seems to be more conducive to pinch harmonics, then it stands to reason the amps may have different capabilities.

It's not a slander against the VH4, it's just a statement of fact.

Yes, and yes. Why is it so hard for people to understand what's going on here? If I plug my guitar into Amp A and pinch harmonics seem to just happen by themselves, without any major effort on my part and then plug into Amp B and pinch harmonics suddenly become much harder to pull of... it stands to reason that the amp, itself, may have something to do with it...

 

[King Crimson]

in germany we say:
a bad horseman blames the horse!

In America (The Greatest Nation on God's Green Earth) we say:
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

 

[VH4_BigRig]

Yes, and yes. Why is it so hard for people to understand what's going on here? If I plug my guitar into Amp A and pinch harmonics seem to just happen by themselves, without any major effort on my part and then plug into Amp B and pinch harmonics suddenly become much harder to pull of... it stands to reason that the amp, itself, may have something to do with it...

Exactly! Thank you. Good to know at least a couple of you feel the same way as I do- always nice to know you're not going crazy I thought this thread was dead and coming back after a brief hiatus, a lot has been said!

I think it's time to put this thread to rest though, being the one who started it. I just want to state that I was in no way trying to "discredit" or slander the amp (or Peter) in any way...I love this amp to death and I'm just trying to get the most out of it! Tonally I'm very satisfied but pings are one thing that have troubled me, which is why I asked. I've been posting here long enough that I'd hope that people know that I'm not malicious or a classless troll, unlike some of those who have replied in this thread.

I learned pinch harmonics because of Zakk Wylde, who said in an interview once "practice pings on an acoustic...if you can get 'em sounding good on an acoustic, they'll sound slammin' on an electric." So that's what I did- practice my pinches on my beat up Takamine until I had them down. That's why I'm pretty damn sure it's not my technique, although I can see why some would think that. I know it doesn't help having 6L6s instead of EL34s or something with more bite, but I spend a lot of time on channel 2 and like it better with 6L6s. I can get pings on the VH4. I just find I have to concentrate on them and think about how to play them, rather than just playing instinctively, which I haven't had to do on a lot of other amps. That's all.

Anyway, there were enough suggestions to run with so I'll give 'em a try and if I find a sweet setting I'll let you all know about it

Oh-DvE, I thought KSE were using Splawn Nitros as their main amps these days? If they're using VH4s now, we gotta get Peter to market that like crazy

Cheers,
bigrig

/thread

 

[DiezelMonster]

I was playing devils advocate, I wasn't calling anyones manhood into question?!?! is there no differeing opinion allowed anymore? does everyone have to get upset that there are people with opposing thoughts?

Really? "classless troll" you have to be kidding me, I didn't shit on your mothers face for christs sake, I didn't even TRY to offend you! yet you took it that way because you are ALL so sensitive!

Anyhow I tried a VH4 out today, and in fact they rang out just the same as any amp for me, I used my guitars and the guitars of the amps owner along with my cables and his? so hooray for me you say, I must be blessed or have the shining or something!

once again, don't take offence to something that was not meant to offend!!!

by the way, when someone plays "devils advocate" that does not mean they subscribe to the idea necessarily, just that they would like to get another take on the matter!

I don't find any issue with pinch harmonics on any amp, and an unplugged electric, acoustic, whatever does not mean I think I'm better than anyone so please understand when I say it is POSSIBLE it can be technique but don't think I'm a pompus ass or trying to puff up my chest! I don't care one way or another, but "classless troll"? really? wow.

anyhow sorry to ruffle your feathers!

C

 

[VH4_BigRig]

I was playing devils advocate, I wasn't calling anyones manhood into question?!?! is there no differeing opinion allowed anymore? does everyone have to get upset that there are people with opposing thoughts?

Really? "classless troll" you have to be kidding me, I didn't shit on your mothers face for christs sake, I didn't even TRY to offend you! yet you took it that way because you are ALL so sensitive!

Anyhow I tried a VH4 out today, and in fact they rang out just the same as any amp for me, I used my guitars and the guitars of the amps owner along with my cables and his? so hooray for me you say, I must be blessed or have the shining or something!

once again, don't take offence to something that was not meant to offend!!!

by the way, when someone plays "devils advocate" that does not mean they subscribe to the idea necessarily, just that they would like to get another take on the matter!

I don't find any issue with pinch harmonics on any amp, and an unplugged electric, acoustic, whatever does not mean I think I'm better than anyone so please understand when I say it is POSSIBLE it can be technique but don't think I'm a pompus ass or trying to puff up my chest! I don't care one way or another, but "classless troll"? really? wow.

anyhow sorry to ruffle your feathers!

C

Dude, you're not the main person I was referring to. It's all good

 

[DvE]

At least Joel Stroetzel stands on the Diezel user list in this forum

Love the style of KsE. Have you ever seen them live or their live DVD?

Pinchies every few seconds, yeah

 

[King Crimson]

At least Joel Stroetzel stands on the Diezel user list in this forum

Love the style of KsE. Have you ever seen them live or their live DVD?

Pinchies every few seconds, yeah

The King of Pinch Harmonics...he could pinch a bread-box!

 

[FourT6and2]

At least Joel Stroetzel stands on the Diezel user list in this forum

Love the style of KsE. Have you ever seen them live or their live DVD?

Pinchies every few seconds, yeah

They weren't using Diezels on the DVD... And they only used Diezel amps very briefly, from what I hear. They've mostly been using Framus, Soldano and Hughes and Kettener I thought? Oh, and Splawn for a short time, too.

 

[VH4_BigRig]

At least Joel Stroetzel stands on the Diezel user list in this forum

Love the style of KsE. Have you ever seen them live or their live DVD?

Pinchies every few seconds, yeah

Yeah, that's a great DVD, From the bedroom to the basement is the kind of thing I think every band should have on their DVD! I love when they have a squeal battle on stage and they both just start laughing

They weren't using Diezels on the DVD... And they only used Diezel amps very briefly, from what I hear. They've mostly been using Framus, Soldano and Hughes and Kettener I thought? Oh, and Splawn for a short time, too.

Yep, they've used all of those at some point, don't forget the 5150 and recto as well- pretty much if it's got a sh*tload of gain, they've used it Up next.....Uberschall?? Oh BTW, how did you score that sweet silverburst LP? If you're in a tribute band, you have all the bases covered

 

[FourT6and2]

At least Joel Stroetzel stands on the Diezel user list in this forum

Love the style of KsE. Have you ever seen them live or their live DVD?

Pinchies every few seconds, yeah

Yeah, that's a great DVD, From the bedroom to the basement is the kind of thing I think every band should have on their DVD! I love when they have a squeal battle on stage and they both just start laughing

They weren't using Diezels on the DVD... And they only used Diezel amps very briefly, from what I hear. They've mostly been using Framus, Soldano and Hughes and Kettener I thought? Oh, and Splawn for a short time, too.

Yep, they've used all of those at some point, don't forget the 5150 and recto as well- pretty much if it's got a sh*tload of gain, they've used it Up next.....Uberschall?? Oh BTW, how did you score that sweet silverburst LP? If you're in a tribute band, you have all the bases covered

I think they even re-amped the guitar signals for the DVD, right? I remember some crazy drama going on over at HCAF regarding Diezel and Killswitch Engage, too... But, I don't want to bring that back up.

I bought my Silverburst on eBay about a year go. I kept my eyes open for one over the course of about 14 years until I found one in good condition that I could actually play first, before buying. I'm not in a tribute band or anything. I actually first saw a Silverburst being played by Wyclef Jean, believe it or not, and that's what sparked my interest in them. I heard about Diezel through Adam Jones, though. I'm a Tool fan-boy, yes. However, I'm not out to emulate his sound by any means. I got my own thing going on.