Preamp tubes???

[Valtiel]

Thank for the welcome and glad to be here! Can't believe I didn't stumble upon this place a little sooner.

I spent a bunch of time about 2 weeks ago with about 25 different 12ax7-type tubes and a slew of different power tubes to see how I liked a whole bunch of different combos. Those comments about the chassis tube were just my findings through my ears. Of course someone else could always hear these things differently. I know I have seen quite a few postings on the Randall forums about the chassis tubes from both the Eggie and Randall R&D boys and they all seemed to agree they help shape the tones. To what degree is probably just a personal thing though. Anyway you look at it, these are some amazing amps!

No problem, good to have you aboard! Interesting findings for sure. Im going to be putting a full compliment of tubes in my MOD 50 and ill make sure to put one that I like in V1 regardless.

Care to share any more tube related findings?

 

[richedie]

nice thing about the ECC83S is that they add some nice gain and aggression which is nice because it seems to even out the treble between chanel A and B. Still can't get too aggressive on channel A.

 

[Jaded Faith]

Thanks again for the welcomes!

That post from Hank about everything being a part of a system was right on the tip of my fingers before I read it in his post. There are so many variable between your hands on the way through your rig to your ears that almost no two members will have the same results with a given tube. You really have to take the time with your setup and your ears and form your own opinions about how your stuff works together. It is all too easy to subscribe to group-think on a forum. It's best to get some pointers to get you in the right direction and then it's all up to you!

So in my tests, I found I liked blends. There are some generalizations I can make about various tubes in my setup. For 12AX7-style tubes, the JJ's are aggressive and lively, the EH's are somewhat middle ground and the Tung-Sols are pretty detailed but lack a certain mojo alone that I can't quite figure out. Blend them based on the characteristics of a given module and you get great flavors that are better than using all one brand. For example, here is what I have in V1 and V2 on my modules at the present time:

Deluxe: JJ ECC81 + Tung-Sol 12AX7
Plexi: JJ ECC803 + EH 12AX7
Recto: Tung-Sol 12AX7 + Tung-Sol 12AX7
XTC: JJ ECC803 + JJ ECC803
SL+: JJ ECC803 Gold Pin + JJ ECC803
1086: EH 12AX7 + EH 12AX7
Eggie VX: EH 12AX7 + EH 12AX7

All of the Randall modules are heavily modded and much better than stock. All but the Plexi and Deluxe have switches and/or pull pots that provide differently voiced tone stacks and multiple bass cap values to tighten or loosen the low end. The tubes above are just what I am currently digging for each and give them the flavor that gives me what I am looking for. For tomorrows gig, I plan to use the Deluxe (clean), Plexi (crunch), Recto (high gain) and XTC (lead) with Tung-Sol 5881's (clean and high gain) and EL34B's (crunch and lead) in my RT2/50. This particular setup works great for me and gives me a lot of colors to work with live. As I got used to each pre and power tube it got really easy to just have a tone in mind and just know which tubes to go for to get the colors I want. Hard to imagine not having these options available to me now.

 

[richedie]

I know what you mean about EL34s having some limitations for clean but honestly when I tried the 5881s, I didn't feel I gained THAT much on the clean channel. I keep coming back to my friend Mark and his use of EL34s. He gigs three sets of covers in a night using nothing but his Marshall's clean and dirty channels, while using his volume knob for gain variations. This is exactly what I have been doing and love this approach. His cleans sound great to me and I have never had a problem with the cleans in my rig using EL34s. I am using the SED Winged C EL34s and they sound like the best tubes I have had in this head although I want to try those Tung Sol EL34Bs(I think Tung sol is now made by Sovtek)! Maybe when these SEDs die. Like you said it is good to have a bunch of tubes around to play with and I also want to grab some KT88s. If they don't do it for me, I'll be an EL34 man for life. I am also only jamming with guys, not gigging. Like it has been said by you and others, a lot of this is personal preference and each rig is different. when I was in Jaded Faith I always used EL34s because it was just what my ears liked.

The Mullard 12AX7, Tung Sol 12AX7 and JJ EC803S all get stellar reviews. The JJ is supposed to be the most noisy! Even Bob at Eurotubes says he only likes thes ein V1 because of the noise issue. The Tung Sol should be much quieter.

So I'll be picking up some EC803s preamp tubes and eventually a pair of KT88s and TS EL34Bs.
For now, after trying JJ E34Ls, Tung sol 5881s and SED EL34s, the SEDs are it. I wouldn't mind trying some EH EL34s as well. It never ends.

Rob, you said you were pairing the EC803S with the Tung Sol in highgain modules but you didn't list that pairing in any of the current tubes you have in your modules.

 

[Jaded Faith]

Rob, you said you were pairing the EC803S with the Tung Sol in highgain modules but you didn't list that pairing in any of the current tubes you have in your modules.

Well that's just the flavor of the week my friend!
Disclaimer: These tones are subject to change...

FWIW, the rig rocked the house last night. Two other guitarists and the DJ from 93.3 WMMR picked my brain about it and I may have a new customer contacting Bruce and the boys in the next few weeks! He was sold on the tone and my experiences with Bruce, Jeff and the Randall R&D guys.

 

[jmgman69]

Rob, you said you were pairing the EC803S with the Tung Sol in highgain modules but you didn't list that pairing in any of the current tubes you have in your modules.

Well that's just the flavor of the week my friend!
Disclaimer: These tones are subject to change...

FWIW, the rig rocked the house last night. Two other guitarists and the DJ from 93.3 WMMR picked my brain about it and I may have a new customer contacting Bruce and the boys in the next few weeks! He was sold on the tone and my experiences with Bruce, Jeff and the Randall R&D guys.

Glad you stole the show The sound of these amps still blow me away every time I hit the standby.

 

[richedie]

Rob, you said you were pairing the EC803S with the Tung Sol in highgain modules but you didn't list that pairing in any of the current tubes you have in your modules.

Well that's just the flavor of the week my friend!
Disclaimer: These tones are subject to change...

FWIW, the rig rocked the house last night. Two other guitarists and the DJ from 93.3 WMMR picked my brain about it and I may have a new customer contacting Bruce and the boys in the next few weeks! He was sold on the tone and my experiences with Bruce, Jeff and the Randall R&D guys.

Cool bro, sorry I didn't make it. It is really hard getting out lately. I am pretty sure we can make it Saturday....we'll do what we can to make it. What do you mean, you have more customers?

 

[richedie]

I checked with Bob at Eurotubes. He recommends the 803S in V1 and the 83S in V2 since he says two 803S series tubes in the module will be too noisy. I may just try it as you did, Rob. I tried two 83S tubes and did not like it!

The description also says the 803S is hoter in the mids so not sure if that means brighter or not.

Finally, I talked with Doug at Doug's tubes. He feels the gold pin thing is a gimmick and should not buy into it. However, I have yet to try one.

Anyone know if the Eggie heads require balanced tubes?

 

[Orren]

You know, I hate to sound dull, especially since I play with power tubes all the time, etc. but I think that the preamp tubes the modules ship with sound really good.

Orren

 

[aeroic]

For me the best "all around tube" for the modules in my M4 and Mod50 is by far the Tung Sol 12ax7.

I am using them in a lot of modules in either V1, V2 or both. That and the Chinese 12ax7a, and that's really the only preamp tubes I am using regularly.

EG5 - V1 - Chinese 12ax7a / V2 - Ruby 12ax7a
SL2 - V1 - Tung Sol 12ax7 / V2 - Chinese 12ax7a
COD / VX / Bassman / T-D - V1 & V2 - Tung Sol 12ax7

I tried EH 12ax7's, Chinese 12ax7a's, Tung Sol 12ax7's, and Ruby 12ax7a's in all the modules, and the Tung Sol 12ax7's are by far the best sounding "all around" tube that will sound awesome in all modules.

The reason I like the Chinese 12ax7a in the EG5 and SL2, is it creates a bite to it that I love, and has a great gain structure. The Tung Sol in the SL2 helps smooth out the module a bit to make it smooth and buttery with still a bite to it.

I LOVE the tone I'm getting with them .

I played all the modules through my VHT 2/90/2 and Mod50, and they all sound great. I use Tung Sol 6550s in my VHT and the tone is to die for. I know many people don't use 6550s on this board, but I love them. Big full sound, tight low end, buttery mid range, and clear chimey high end. Just an all around bad ass tube. Currently I have TS 5881's in the Mod50 for something different. I liked the JJ 6V6's too in my Mod50 for something completely different. But if I gigged w/ the Mod50, I'd for sure use 6550s in it too because the tone is just awesome for all modules. I thought the 5881s did better with some modules than others. Every module I thought sounded great w/ 6550s and really lets the tone of the module come through without a ton of coloring from the power tubes.

One comment I will have to say....get a good set of tubes...and PLAY your amp . Even with not the highest end tubes like Sovteks...the Eggies sound sooo bad ass . Get out there and rock out w/ your c@#k out .

Eric

 

[richedie]

I don't like the Sovteks at al in the modules. I have aomse JJs, Tung Sols and Ehs tubes to try. So far I like the JJs the best.

I found out that the new EH, Tung Sol, Mullards, etc are nothing but Sovteks and I find they are too bright compared to the JJs.

 

[aeroic]

its all personal preference. not all sovteks are made equal though either. most of the vendors like EH, TS, etc. get their pick of the litter so they get the highest quality tubes to put to their name.

i personally have not been that big of a fan of JJ's as I thought they were lifeless in every amp I've ever had. but then again, its all a point of personal preference.

buy a bunch of tubes that meets your tonal satisfaction, and play the hell outta them!

Eric

 

[jmgman69]

its all personal preference. not all sovteks are made equal though either. most of the vendors like EH, TS, etc. get their pick of the litter so they get the highest quality tubes to put to their name.

i personally have not been that big of a fan of JJ's as I thought they were lifeless in every amp I've ever had. but then again, its all a point of personal preference.

buy a bunch of tubes that meets your tonal satisfaction, and play the hell outta them!

Eric

A big AMEN brotha!!!

 

[richedie]

its all personal preference. not all sovteks are made equal though either. most of the vendors like EH, TS, etc. get their pick of the litter so they get the highest quality tubes to put to their name.

i personally have not been that big of a fan of JJ's as I thought they were lifeless in every amp I've ever had. but then again, its all a point of personal preference.

buy a bunch of tubes that meets your tonal satisfaction, and play the hell outta them!

Eric

It really is personal preference. JJs are the only preamp tubes that have had much life in my opinion so I always come back to JJ....but again that is my opinion and I play what I like. I have just been using them for years.

 

[richedie]

I got the JJ ECC803S tubes in the Mod 50 chassis an one ECC803S in V1 and an ECC83S in V2 of my high gain module. It made the amp much thicker, richer and wider sounding. Literally, the amp now seems to just ooze and drip juicy tone. The amp gain is so much more controllable now, seems less compressed. I swear the amp is quieter and more articulate. And this is all with the SED winged C EL34s. I may try two ECC803S in the EG5, but why!

Eurotubes highly recommends the 803/83 combination for V1/V2 and I see why!

The SL2 module is a touch lower gain so we'll see what works there.

 

[mctallica1]

I got the JJ ECC803S tubes in the Mod 50 chassis an one ECC803S in V1 and an ECC83S in V2 of my high gain module. It made the amp much thicker, richer and wider sounding. Literally, the amp now seems to just ooze and drip juicy tone. The amp gain is so much more controllable now, seems less compressed. I swear the amp is quieter and more articulate. And this is all with the SED winged C EL34s. I may try two ECC803S in the EG5, but why!

Eurotubes highly recommends the 803/83 combination for V1/V2 and I see why!

The SL2 module is a touch lower gain so we'll see what works there.

Are you using the gold pin version of that JJ or just the regular?

I am going to buy a few, btu the gold pins are about double the cost, so if I can get away with the regulars......

 

[bstaley]

Tony, what's going on? I thought you were happy with your Axe-FX.

 

[mctallica1]

Tony, what's going on? I thought you were happy with your Axe-FX.

I am VERY happy with the Axe, but have been wanting another MOD50 as well.

I sold my Axe to offset part of the cost of the MOD50, but my turn comes up on the second I ordered in the next few weeks, so I will buy that one and have both

 

[bstaley]

Tony, what's going on? I thought you were happy with your Axe-FX.

I am VERY happy with the Axe, but have been wanting another MOD50 as well.

I sold my Axe to offset part of the cost of the MOD50, but my turn comes up on the second I ordered in the next few weeks, so I will buy that one and have both

Ahh...I see that now. I missed the other thread. Welcome Back!

 

[richedie]

Regular 803S. I talked to some tube gurus who said the gold pins are not worth it.