Q&A with multi-platinum rock producer Michael Wagener.

[MICHAEL WAGENER]

Michael,

It's a real honor to have you here. My buddy Rodney said he spoke with you briefly, and you were a huge help in finding his tone.

A shout out to Mr. Lugo for swaying you to come here as well

I was wondering if you could please let us know a little bit about microphone placement on a cabinet. A lot of engineers swear by using only a single microphone, while others (like yourself in most cases, as far as I have gathered) use several. Do you have a real sweet spot for dynamic microphones/condenser microphones in general? I know with ribbons, they are very forgiving when it comes to high end content, so you can slap that sucker right on the dead center of the cone, and will get some serious midrange without any fizz. With dynamics and condensers, I have noticed that even moving the microphone several millimeters can change the entire high end or fizz content of a distorted guitar sound. When I use several mics, I notice that this issue becomes much less prominent due to extremely minor phase cancellations due to the differing frequency responses of the various microphones used, and also the fact that the phase is going to be just a tiny bit different, but with the reduced fizz also comes reduced clarity.

Also, I record cabinets in a reflection-free isolated area that has several hundred pounds of rockwool insulation that is wrapped in fabric to help reduce low end buildup on palm mutes and my room's resonant frequencies; I also float the cabinets off the floor with rockwool panels, with a mdf panel on top, and an Auralex Gramma on top of that. I still seem to get some unwanted blooming in the low end, despite all the treatment. Is it commonplace to knock off a handful of decibels of low end peakiness with a Distressor, or something of the sort?

Thank you so very much for your time and knowledge,

-Greg Tomao

Greg

What I do is, record a bit of a DI track, loop it and real-amp it through the MW-1 into an amp at very low volume, but with a distorted signal (master volume amp) Then, listening to Isolation headphones, I take a microphone, most likely a Royer R-121 and move it around the cabinet, close to the speaker to find the sweet spot for that particular speaker, hard to explain, but easy to hear. It is most likely different for each speaker/mic combo. Then I take a second mic, preferably a condenser (like the Groove Tubes Convertible or Sterling ST31 as it is sold at GC) switch the polarity and listen to the two mics in mono in my headphones. Now move the second mic back and forth in front of another speaker until you hear the most cancellation in your headphone. It will never cancel all the way, but you can get close. Secure the mic in that position and you will have minimal phase cancellation between the two mics.

I am not an acoustician (?), but it seems with your room setup (with all the insulation) you enhance the low end response by eating up the reflections. You might want to consult an acoustic person on this. I have a pretty reflective and open room with the speakers sitting right on the floor (concrete) and I never have low end problems

 

[MICHAEL WAGENER]

Hey Michael thanks so much for taking time to answer our questions. I have three questions concerning Pornograffitti...

1. What is the trick to getting those big 80's style background vocals/harmonies that Nuno does on many tracks? It only sounds like his voice on some but they sound really huge!

2. Unlike other Extreme albums, this one had a ton of complimentary horn/brass arrangements mixed in that gave a ton of dynamics to the sound. Can you explain how that was introduced and the story behind getting that on the record?

3. Nuno's guitar, from what I have read he was using a ADA MP1. It sounds like there are multiple layers of tracks over each other. Was there something special to give those tracks the uummph for lack of better words, that really carried the songs to which was new for you or the band at that time?

1. reverb

2. We hired the brass section of the Tonight Show. It was real horns played by real people (really great people)

3. Yes, most of the Rhythm tracks were doubled, Nuno is an awesome player and his doubling is flawless.

 

[MICHAEL WAGENER]

Hello Michael-
If you could, please share your insight on dealing with pick/string noise.
When I play or watch live clips of others playing, I often hear a lot of pick attack/string noise (most noticeable with high gain tones). Yet when I listen to most albums, the attack is very smooth and fluid.
Eq? Compression? Fairy pixie dust?

Thanks for your time!
Russ

Not really sure what you are referring to. I sometimes make guitar players play with a metal pick to get more string attack. George Lynch played most of his solos with a washer to get more attack. Very fast compression would most likely take that out, but I like it, so I leave it in.

 

[MICHAEL WAGENER]

Hey Michael, great to see you on here! it's a rare treat to ask engineering questions to someone of your reputation, thank you so much!

I see you layer amps/cabs per side ie the Laney/Marshall mix you mentioned earlier... do you eg mult the whole left track to one track and pan that completely left, or hard pan the main amp left and pan the second amp say 80% to thicken it?

What do you use to adjust phase between mics?(apart from placement). Any opinion on the Radial Phazor? (there's very little on the net about this, it sounds like a more rugged IPB). Do you use that trick of flipping the phase on one and adjusting until it sounds it's thinnest, then flipping back? Any tips for perfect phase?

Are you a fan of quad tracking? If so, any tips on keeping definition when doing so? (apart from playing very tightly!) And again, how do you prefer to pan them?

What's your current favorite amp combination, and mic combination, for hard rock/metal?

Lastly, your preferred placement when doing the classic SM57 on a Celestion V30?

Thanks again, sorry for so many questions!

I tend to record all the amps for one sound and one take on one track and then most likely double that track with another amp and another guitar and pan it opposite. I combine different tones to make one sound for one track. If you read the ULAK post, we combined 16 microphones to one single track.

See one of my previous posts about the whole phase thing. No I don't use any gear just mic placement.

Not sure what you mean by Quad tracking? Do you mean track four tracks for one part? If the song needs it, if the sound needs it, yes, why not, pan to taste, no rules.

Right now I favor the Splawn Quick Rod with a very broken in 4x12 Marshall with 25W greenbacks.

Haven't used a 57 on guitar cab in 15 years

 

[MICHAEL WAGENER]

This is great that you are doing this Michael and taking time out of your busy schedule. Thanks to Lugo too for talking you into it.

I'm happy to see you like your Splawn Quick Rod. I'm sure Scott Splawn would be glad to know that as well. Has anyone we would recognize use the Splawn lately?

I saw you reference the Egnater Tourmaster a few times. Have you tried the Renegade and do you have any thoughts on it? I ask because I liked the Renegade better and really dug its tube swapping capability and channel switching.


Thanks again

I love the Quick Rod, but I don't own one yet. I borrowed it from my friend Scott Moore for a few sessions.

I love the Tourmaster as well, totally different beast from the Splawn, but the two are very complimentary. Haven't worked much with the Renegade, but I like the little Tweaker and the Rebel 30 very much too. I also use the M4 with the modules, all great stuff. If the Splawn has the Rock, The Egnater has the soul.

 

[MICHAEL WAGENER]

Have you still used the ADA Mp1 or any other Guitar Tube Preamps recently in the last 5 rears or so, perhaps in Parallel to a regular head ?

Do you think that guitar tones have improved since the 80s or merely evolved.

Seems that many of the greatest guitar tones of all types were achieved in the 80s.

Haven't used the ADA in a while. It is still sitting there on setting #45 as used on those records.

I think there are a lot more boutique amps out there, that help tremendously to get a great tone, and sometimes different ton. I also think that people in the 80 cared more about their tone.

 

[MICHAEL WAGENER]

Hi Michael!

Really cool to have you hear , cheers!

I have a question about controlling bottom end and low mids when tracking guitar. In general i noticed that my live settings vary from my recording settings which is fine by me as long as it sounds good...

I generally use a lot less gain and low end when tracking and stacking guitars. I'm assuming that is because of proximity effect (at the least the less bass part) but it's sometimes frustrating when you dial in the amp to sound killer in the room, and then you stick mics in front of the cabinet and you can't capture what you hear in the room...

how do you capture or attempt to capture the sound of amp in the room but still achieve a tight phase coherent focused sound / blending room mics and such.. v

Cheers!!

I listen through the mic > preamp > studio monitors when I dial in the amp, that's why I have all the amps in the control room. I do not use room mics for distorted guitar anymore.

 

[MICHAEL WAGENER]

Hi Michael - thanks for being here!

I have a non guitar related question...what was up with the snare drum sounds in the 80s? They are the one thing that irks me like crazy when I whip out an old 80s track. Specifically I mean that "pssh" attack instead of a "crack" attack with an extremely washed out reverb...Was that just a product of the times? I remember being in my teens back then and thinking that the snare drum sounds were bad even then. Not bagging on you at all, your status is legendary and well-deserved...it's more of an "era" question, I guess.

Well, it was the sound of that era. We just bought all those very expensive digital reverb units, so we better use them
I think it's completely a taste thing, you either like it or you don't. The funny thing is, I get a ton of requests to mix with that sound again. I guess reverb is not a bad word anymore and people are tired of the overcompressed stuff of the 20th century, I can only hope.

Nothing wrong with verb around here Michael

What are your thoughts about VST plug-ins vs rack gear such as Lexicon, Eventide, Roland, etc when it comes to verbs and delays? I find when I use my SDE-3000 or H3000 that they add this color and warmth that made them great back in the day. I have not messed with the newer VSTs out lately so I may be off base with my thoughts.

Thanks for taking the time to be here!

I still use outboard reverbs like the Quantec QRS, Bricasti M7, Lexicon PCM 70, 80, 90, TC M6000 and the Kurzweil KSP 8. The Delay plugs come close, except for some certain outboard delays like the Lexicon 95 (PrimeTime II) and the Yamaha 5000

 

[Rayneman]

OK. King's X - my favorite.

1) Did Ty really use his Elite Strat with strings that hadn't been changed for an incredibly long time (I can't remember where I heard this, but I swear that I did)

2) Did they have their tunes for the album "ready" when they recorded or did they "wing it" at times?

3) Presumably you've heard older Ty Tabor tones, did you typically let him do what he wanted or did you ever advise him on anything with regard to the tones he used? I guess I am subtly asking how you like his more current sound vs. those he used on earlier recordings.

Much respect,

Tim

 

[MICHAEL WAGENER]

Allright guys. That's it for today, gotta get back to shooting video, will be back...

If any of you are interested, sign up for one of my workshops, they are a lot of fun and there is a lot to learn about all phases of recording (pun intended
http://www.michaelwagener.com/html/wshops.html

See you soon

 

[MICHAEL WAGENER]

OK. King's X - my favorite.

1) Did Ty really use his Elite Strat with strings that hadn't been changed for an incredibly long time (I can't remember where I heard this, but I swear that I did)

2) Did they have their tunes for the album "ready" when they recorded or did they "wing it" at times?

3) Presumably you've heard older Ty Tabor tones, did you typically let him do what he wanted or did you ever advise him on anything with regard to the tones he used? I guess I am subtly asking how you like his more current sound vs. those he used on earlier recordings.

Much respect,

Tim

OK one more...

1) yes, the strings on his Elite were 9 years old. He told me that AFTER we tracked the guitar, otherwise I would not have known. I guess Ty could play rubber bands strung over a cigar box and sound good.

2) They were winging it at times. But with King's X winging it is the same as another band working on the songs for a year.

3 When Ty came in for OGRETONES, he was using Line 6 and I refused to record it. It was at the time of the NAMM show here in Nashville and he called me after he found the Randall MTS series at the show. We checked it out together and decided that this is what we wanted to use on the album. He really had to get used to using his right hand again properly, after playing the emulation boxes for so long, it completely had gotten lazy. Midway through the tour that year, he called me and thanked me for turning him back on to Tube amps.

 

[raymitchell]

Hey Michael!
Got a quick and easy question for you. I'm looking for a reasonably priced pair of isolation headphones to use while tweaking mic placement. Drums don't seem to be too bad of a problem, but adjusting/experimenting with mic placement on guitar cabs is making me crazy! HELP!

Thanks,
Ray Mitchell
Anderson, SC

 

[raymitchell]

Please make this thread a sticky! It's definitely worth it!

 

[lolzgreg]

Michael,

It's a real honor to have you here. My buddy Rodney said he spoke with you briefly, and you were a huge help in finding his tone.

A shout out to Mr. Lugo for swaying you to come here as well

I was wondering if you could please let us know a little bit about microphone placement on a cabinet. A lot of engineers swear by using only a single microphone, while others (like yourself in most cases, as far as I have gathered) use several. Do you have a real sweet spot for dynamic microphones/condenser microphones in general? I know with ribbons, they are very forgiving when it comes to high end content, so you can slap that sucker right on the dead center of the cone, and will get some serious midrange without any fizz. With dynamics and condensers, I have noticed that even moving the microphone several millimeters can change the entire high end or fizz content of a distorted guitar sound. When I use several mics, I notice that this issue becomes much less prominent due to extremely minor phase cancellations due to the differing frequency responses of the various microphones used, and also the fact that the phase is going to be just a tiny bit different, but with the reduced fizz also comes reduced clarity.

Also, I record cabinets in a reflection-free isolated area that has several hundred pounds of rockwool insulation that is wrapped in fabric to help reduce low end buildup on palm mutes and my room's resonant frequencies; I also float the cabinets off the floor with rockwool panels, with a mdf panel on top, and an Auralex Gramma on top of that. I still seem to get some unwanted blooming in the low end, despite all the treatment. Is it commonplace to knock off a handful of decibels of low end peakiness with a Distressor, or something of the sort?

Thank you so very much for your time and knowledge,

-Greg Tomao

Greg

What I do is, record a bit of a DI track, loop it and real-amp it through the MW-1 into an amp at very low volume, but with a distorted signal (master volume amp) Then, listening to Isolation headphones, I take a microphone, most likely a Royer R-121 and move it around the cabinet, close to the speaker to find the sweet spot for that particular speaker, hard to explain, but easy to hear. It is most likely different for each speaker/mic combo. Then I take a second mic, preferably a condenser (like the Groove Tubes Convertible or Sterling ST31 as it is sold at GC) switch the polarity and listen to the two mics in mono in my headphones. Now move the second mic back and forth in front of another speaker until you hear the most cancellation in your headphone. It will never cancel all the way, but you can get close. Secure the mic in that position and you will have minimal phase cancellation between the two mics.

I am not an acoustician (?), but it seems with your room setup (with all the insulation) you enhance the low end response by eating up the reflections. You might want to consult an acoustic person on this. I have a pretty reflective and open room with the speakers sitting right on the floor (concrete) and I never have low end problems

Michael,

Thank you very much for your insight. I have yet to purchase a Royer, but I do have several of the Cascade Fathead microphones with the Lundhal transformers that I'll try this trick with.

The mention on the part of acoustics makes a great point. My biggest issue is that my room is not very large, and I don't want any early reflections back into the microphone causing phase cancellations, especially a ribbon with a figure-8 pattern, but I'm going to have to weigh the odds here and see if it's worthwhile.

Thanks again,

-Greg

 

[killertone]

I think the "old" stuff is really overrated and there is a lot of great new stuff out there, where you still can get parts, should it ever break and you can talk to the people that built it. All the hype about: this sounds just like ........... (insert old equipment here), doesn't work for me. Mic pres are the most overrated items in a studio right now. I do comparisons during my workshops all the time and I have come to the conclusion that I could make a great record with almost ANY set of mic pres. We used to record with MCI 500 consoles, those mic-pres are nothing to write home about, actually sounded pretty dull (until the John Hardy replacements came out), but we made great records on them, sold millions of copies. If you move your microphone by as much as half an inch, you make much more of a difference than changing mic pres. There is certain stuff I like, because it fits my taste (like the Chandler stuff, Royer mics etc.), but I could not speak for you, your taste is most likely different than mine.


I think what should be acquired (and I am speaking in general terms here) is the experience and ears to deal with what one has at hand, learning about the principles of recording before running for the gear.

This is gold. And I could not agree more, not that my opinion counts for anything!

 

[danhops]

I think the "old" stuff is really overrated and there is a lot of great new stuff out there, where you still can get parts, should it ever break and you can talk to the people that built it. All the hype about: this sounds just like ........... (insert old equipment here), doesn't work for me. Mic pres are the most overrated items in a studio right now. I do comparisons during my workshops all the time and I have come to the conclusion that I could make a great record with almost ANY set of mic pres. We used to record with MCI 500 consoles, those mic-pres are nothing to write home about, actually sounded pretty dull (until the John Hardy replacements came out), but we made great records on them, sold millions of copies. If you move your microphone by as much as half an inch, you make much more of a difference than changing mic pres. There is certain stuff I like, because it fits my taste (like the Chandler stuff, Royer mics etc.), but I could not speak for you, your taste is most likely different than mine.


I think what should be acquired (and I am speaking in general terms here) is the experience and ears to deal with what one has at hand, learning about the principles of recording before running for the gear.

This is gold. And I could not agree more, not that my opinion counts for anything!

I've been saying pretty much the same thing for years. Just listen to some of the recordings people do without using high end mic preamplifiers and outboard. It's knowing how to use the tools available to you to the best of your ability. I've hear plenty of shit recordings through high end gear. That's not to say having high priced pres arent nice, but I look at that more as icing on the cake. Too many put the tools ahead of the skills. I was a recording engineer for 13-14 years and I would say this time and time again to those that had asked. I was always met with people telling me I was talking out my ass. What did I have to gain by saying that?

 

[robertkoa]

OK. King's X - my favorite.

1) Did Ty really use his Elite Strat with strings that hadn't been changed for an incredibly long time (I can't remember where I heard this, but I swear that I did)

2) Did they have their tunes for the album "ready" when they recorded or did they "wing it" at times?

3) Presumably you've heard older Ty Tabor tones, did you typically let him do what he wanted or did you ever advise him on anything with regard to the tones he used? I guess I am subtly asking how you like his more current sound vs. those he used on earlier recordings.

Much respect,

Tim

OK one more...

1) yes, the strings on his Elite were 9 years old. He told me that AFTER we tracked the guitar, otherwise I would not have known. I guess Ty could play rubber bands strung over a cigar box and sound good.

2) They were winging it at times. But with King's X winging it is the same as another band working on the songs for a year.

3 When Ty came in for OGRETONES, he was using Line 6 and I refused to record it. It was at the time of the NAMM show here in Nashville and he called me after he found the Randall MTS series at the show. We checked it out together and decided that this is what we wanted to use on the album. He really had to get used to using his right hand again properly, after playing the emulation boxes for so long, it completely had gotten lazy. Midway through the tour that year, he called me and thanked me for turning him back on to Tube amps.

You refused to record it- Ha!- there's a Producer sticking to his guns.

Had you known the strings were 9 years old ( ! )- you could have had Catering bake them a Birthday Cake - right?

 

[Jimmie]

There is certain stuff I like, because it fits my taste (like the Chandler stuff, Royer mics etc.), but I could not speak for you, your taste is most likely different than mine.

But I think you do speak for me, as well as a sizable portion of the planet, primarily in being responsible for the development of our collective taste found in all of the great music you've crafted into perfection that we continue to gravate towards.

I realize thats a long and drawn out way to say thank you for staying dedicated to evolving the skill and mastery to your craft, but there it is, nonetheless.



Jimmie
who is still longing for his own MW-1 Studio Tool and your new DVD

 

[Bevosss]

Thanks for the great info Michael! Just some additional questions if you are still answering:

Do you use cabinet impulses in addition to miking cabs?

I read somewhere you were using the Torpedo VB-101 hardware, so I'm curious if you are still, and how/when you use them

eg if you use them alongside, or instead of, the real cabs...and for what reason, speed?

and if so, any favourite cab/mic combos from them.

Cheers!

 

[raymitchell]

BUMP!

Somebody sticky this thread!