Question for the high wattage amp guys here about playing at home

VESmedic said:
Does anyone know when volume II of this book is coming out?
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I think there will probably be a revised edition with a prologue explaining that being on the spectrum is no laughing matter, and an epilogue explaining that you can get a mean "enter sandman" tone straight into a vibrolux as long as you have the right IR and can eq match it.

CuZ iTs AlL JuSt FrEqUeNciEs bRo
 
To me, if I am playing low volume I am using a Kemper or Fractal -just bought an FM9
When I plug into my Slo100 it's all about the punch of cranking it a bit. But then again I live on 2 acres and ca.

Once you start using a power station or reactive load and IR's you are not getting any better tone than a modeler Nor is it the same as turning it up and playing thru a 4x12 cab.
 
Late to the party but….enjoyed reading all of this. I’ll just add a bit….

Tonedig talks about ‘monitors and frfr having thump’.
No.
Not the same.
All things pushing 112 decibels are NOT created equal. I’ve been lucky enough in my 33 years playing out to have played on some large venue stages a handful of times..Rock Fest in Cadott Wi for example. On the main stage the ‘monitors’ were basically a club PA…2x18, 2x12+tweeter housing on each side of the stage + one by the drum riser. Those monitors were LOUD and equal to my amp + 4x12 in db….but I could FEEL my 4x12 thumping when I’d palm mute. Volume was equal between them, yet no ‘thump’ from the monitor stack. Same with the 1000watt frfr speaker I had when I had my AX8….as loud as my 800 half stack but the 800 thumped and the frfr did NOT. And, that’s with the lows cranked on the Axe.
Just because you can match a 4x12 rig in decibels certainly doesn’t mean all things are equal.
 
Racerxrated said:
Late to the party but….enjoyed reading all of this. I’ll just add a bit….

Tonedig talks about ‘monitors and frfr having thump’.
No.
Not the same.
All things pushing 112 decibels are NOT created equal. I’ve been lucky enough in my 33 years playing out to have played on some large venue stages a handful of times..Rock Fest in Cadott Wi for example. On the main stage the ‘monitors’ were basically a club PA…2x18, 2x12+tweeter housing on each side of the stage + one by the drum riser. Those monitors were LOUD and equal to my amp + 4x12 in db….but I could FEEL my 4x12 thumping when I’d palm mute. Volume was equal between them, yet no ‘thump’ from the monitor stack. Same with the 1000watt frfr speaker I had when I had my AX8….as loud as my 800 half stack but the 800 thumped and the frfr did NOT. And, that’s with the lows cranked on the Axe.
Just because you can match a 4x12 rig in decibels certainly doesn’t mean all things are equal.
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It's a similar situation to his "it's all just frequencies" nonsense - not all decibels are created equal.

He has oversimplified it to just "decibels" and "frequency" when both are functions over time - which makes the end result, the sound, much more complex than either variable as a snapshot IN time.

This sort of trite, unimaginative way of thinking is a way that he can reduce the number of variables, and whittle them down to the point where he can "understand" it; and provides internal justification for "schooling" others.

Ironically, he came to one of the only guitar spaces on the internet where you're almost SURE to get called out on it.
 
I got my Ceriatone 2204 last night and had a short time to play it. I was surprised that at bedroom levels the smaller amps sounded just as big. Now I haven't spent much time with it and look forward to doing it but first impression is I was better off with the smaller amps. I have a little ugly JCM-1 clone that I got of eBay a few years ago that really roars. I wasn't able to hear that same roar on the 2204 at bedroom volumes so I'm sure it has to do with the power tubes. I am glad I got the PPIMV because I was able to get it to distort nicely at low volumes but no roar?
 
There are many different direction to the road that leads the way... It depends on where you're coming from and where you're going.

For Years, I would just load down the amp (ex non-mv Marshall) w/ a Hotplate or other attenuator set to LOAD-- Then set the amp to it's tone 'sweet spot', and re-amp that Line level signal to another power amp and adjust the levels on the power amp to achieve the desired volume level. Voila

For the last several years-- more than 10, I've been using amps with good master volumes.

 
Racerxrated said:
Late to the party but….enjoyed reading all of this. I’ll just add a bit….

Tonedig talks about ‘monitors and frfr having thump’.
No.
Not the same.
All things pushing 112 decibels are NOT created equal. I’ve been lucky enough in my 33 years playing out to have played on some large venue stages a handful of times..Rock Fest in Cadott Wi for example. On the main stage the ‘monitors’ were basically a club PA…2x18, 2x12+tweeter housing on each side of the stage + one by the drum riser. Those monitors were LOUD and equal to my amp + 4x12 in db….but I could FEEL my 4x12 thumping when I’d palm mute. Volume was equal between them, yet no ‘thump’ from the monitor stack. Same with the 1000watt frfr speaker I had when I had my AX8….as loud as my 800 half stack but the 800 thumped and the frfr did NOT. And, that’s with the lows cranked on the Axe.
Just because you can match a 4x12 rig in decibels certainly doesn’t mean all things are equal.
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The low end is coupled with the floor with what is an old 4x12 design. If you decouple the cab by raising it up then the chest thump is significantly reduced. You experience the cabs bass without false/fake bass response.

FRFR house monitors are usually hanging or raised up. They are decoupled. If you want to get the chest thump then couple a good guitar FRFR and just turn it up. Line6 Powercab, Friedman, Mission, Laney. They will all give you that thump but FRFR isn't directional like a 4x12. You will have to move around a bit more.

That's about all that is different in the physics of the two systems. There is nothing preventing FRFR from creating a chest thump. I'd be very surprised to hear anyone explain a scientific view of why there should be either.
 
TheToneDig said:
The low end is coupled with the floor with what is an old 4x12 design. If you decouple the cab by raising it up then the chest thump is significantly reduced. You experience the cabs bass without false/fake bass response.

FRFR house monitors are usually hanging or raised up. They are decoupled. If you want to get the chest thump then couple a good guitar FRFR and just turn it up. Line6 Powercab, Friedman, Mission, Laney. They will all give you that thump but FRFR isn't directional like a 4x12. You will have to move around a bit more.

That's about all that is different in the physics of the two systems. There is nothing preventing FRFR from creating a chest thump. I'd be very surprised to hear anyone explain a scientific view of why there should be either.
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YEP. THATS IT. THATS ALL THATS DIFFERENT FOLKS.




Bass, aka “thump”, is Omnidirectional, regardless of what system is amplifying it. Also, thank god you are back, I was starting to get bored on this forum. I also sold all my amps and bought 1 watt versions of them, and the sound is like, totally exactly the same! I’ll be putting bob rock out of business any day now.
 
TheToneDig said:
The low end is coupled with the floor with what is an old 4x12 design. If you decouple the cab by raising it up then the chest thump is significantly reduced. You experience the cabs bass without false/fake bass response.

FRFR house monitors are usually hanging or raised up. They are decoupled. If you want to get the chest thump then couple a good guitar FRFR and just turn it up. Line6 Powercab, Friedman, Mission, Laney. They will all give you that thump but FRFR isn't directional like a 4x12. You will have to move around a bit more.

That's about all that is different in the physics of the two systems. There is nothing preventing FRFR from creating a chest thump. I'd be very surprised to hear anyone explain a scientific view of why there should be either.
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My cabs are NOT flush to the floor. On casters; and in other cases I’ve raised them higher. Still get that ‘hit me in the chest’ thump, no matter how or where I place the cab. And, the 1000w frfr I had was also on the floor. Not on a stand.
 
Racerxrated said:
My cabs are NOT flush to the floor. On casters; and in other cases I’ve raised them higher. Still get that ‘hit me in the chest’ thump, no matter how or where I place the cab. And, the 1000w frfr I had was also on the floor. Not on a stand.
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It’s almost like, the 4x12 is a fantastic design for modern heavy distorted guitar tones, and still used to this day for very specific reasons on records… super strange. I feel like I’ve more than proved that at this point, but apparently not.

I don’t have a dog in the fight on FRFR personally. To me the Kemper was fantastic live for what I used it on: a large production country gig with a signed touring artist with backing tracks, and a professional show that is planned out from the beginning to end: i am a huge fan of modelers live or in the studio no doubt about it. I simply would never use a real amp when playing those kind of shows, because there were much more important things on a gig like that than hearing myself on stage wjth a cab, when everyone is on in ears etc for very specific reasons. I played over 500+ Shows with my Kemper playing all over the country in clubs from 2k people up to 50k + outdoor festivals, and it was fantastic, wouldn’t have even thought about using anything else…however, on that note, no it never hits the same. A full FOH like we were playing on with a full line array that could peel your skin back from low end and sheer volume, yes absolutely. But the response and feel is still not the same as a 4x12, and it never will be. Did it matter to me? Not at that level and with that professionalism, not at all. But that’s me personally. Smaller shows? Absolutely 100 percent it would bug me. But again, that’s not what this moron was saying in all of his made up rants in the first place. This guy is completely clueless on all levels.
 
jchrisf said:
I got my Ceriatone 2204 last night and had a short time to play it. I was surprised that at bedroom levels the smaller amps sounded just as big. Now I haven't spent much time with it and look forward to doing it but first impression is I was better off with the smaller amps. I have a little ugly JCM-1 clone that I got of eBay a few years ago that really roars. I wasn't able to hear that same roar on the 2204 at bedroom volumes so I'm sure it has to do with the power tubes. I am glad I got the PPIMV because I was able to get it to distort nicely at low volumes but no roar?
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My bad.. I was able to get the roar at low volumes on the 2204. There are a lot more tones in the 2204. So glad I have the PPIMV because this thing can get loud. Also glad I can switch it to 20 watt mode but when you want to crank it, it will cut your head off.

I'm really surprised about how much gain can be gotten out of it without pedals. I'm also surprised how great the cleans are that I can get out of it either with the volume knob or the low sensitivity input. Much more versatile than I was expecting and it has that tone I've been searching for my whole life. I also got it with the little 1 watt but I enjoy playing the 50 watt more even at really low volumes... it's a little more 3 dimensional.

The SD-1 comes tomorrow and I'm thinking about the Hot Mod too. I've tried it with my FM3 but there is a lot of noise that I haven't figured out so it ruins it a bit but really liked the Love Pedal, SD-1, BB Pre, Heartpedal 11 and tube drive three knob.
 
jchrisf said:
My bad.. I was able to get the roar at low volumes on the 2204. There are a lot more tones in the 2204. So glad I have the PPIMV because this thing can get loud. Also glad I can switch it to 20 watt mode but when you want to crank it, it will cut your head off.

I'm really surprised about how much gain can be gotten out of it without pedals. I'm also surprised how great the cleans are that I can get out of it either with the volume knob or the low sensitivity input. Much more versatile than I was expecting and it has that tone I've been searching for my whole life. I also got it with the little 1 watt but I enjoy playing the 50 watt more even at really low volumes... it's a little more 3 dimensional.

The SD-1 comes tomorrow and I'm thinking about the Hot Mod too. I've tried it with my FM3 but there is a lot of noise that I haven't figured out so it ruins it a bit but really liked the Love Pedal, SD-1, BB Pre, Heartpedal 11 and tube drive three knob.
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I am glad you are enjoying it, though selfishly I liked your origional post, cuz I thought I might score that 2204 for cheap and give that master volume the turn it deserves.. But I have heard great things about ceriatone. I almost pulled the trigger on a 2204 before I grabbed my current amp. Nik is a really nice guy.
 
Smashedguitarist said:
I am glad you are enjoying it, though selfishly I liked your origional post, cuz I thought I might score that 2204 for cheap and give that master volume the turn it deserves.. But I have heard great things about ceriatone. I almost pulled the trigger on a 2204 before I grabbed my current amp. Nik is a really nice guy.
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It's a very nice looking, well built amp.
 
Go 50 and 100 and giv'er when you can. Even playing at 4 on a jcm800 is loud but from the street might just be a little rumble. Someone had mentioned it a while back use IRs just to do some tracking but then reamp the DI when nobody is around if you are live mic'ing anything. Ultimately you will be happier with real cab response over stacked IR's that may have phase issues or sound too compressed. Im sort of thinking that we gather all this gesr together, a shame not to use it. Nice mic pres and mics and gear sitting there collecting dust.

Disclaimer: if you mic cabs like the TTK tone king on youtube, then skip all that and just use IRs because your ears really are shit.
 
Wow! I just tried it with the Boss SD-1 and man, what a difference. Both the 1 and 50 watt sounded a lot better IMO. Putting the FM3 in front of them with its emulated SD1 was noisy and sucked some tone away. With the real (brand new) SD1 the amp opened up and started to really roar.

I don't think I can go back to modelers.. I should have started with tube amps.
 
Below is all my opinion on what I've observed:

Well, after extensive testing I've concluded that at low or high bedroom volumes the low watt amps are just as good as my high watt amp. As a matter of fact the little 1 watt JCM1 clone actually sounds best (probably because I can crank the MV and that makes it roar).

But, even better, I like my FM3 through a couple of 8" monitors. It gets that AITR sound but is highly configurable and I can get any tone I can imagine out of the FM3. If I want to add a Jose Mod to my JCM 800.. just the click of a button.. Variac.. turn of a dial... and with the monitors I can use IRs that give me instant access to any cab/speaker combo I want.

I even bought several different speakers for my cab and speakers make a huge difference but I still prefer the big monitors.. they really roar in the bedroom at any volume level.

PS.. I always lean towards the JCM 800 models in modelers as well as real amps so any other amp type my have different results.
 
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Metalhex said:
Oh boy here we go again!
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Nah.

TheToneDig is taking a break from R-T

He has not posted since Jan 1.

FWIW - I have a 1watt amp as well and even when I boost it and push through a 4x12 it still does not have the punch and girth of my bigger amps. I need my testies vibrating.
 
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