Rebel 30 .. how reliable ???

[marvcus]

I have no dog in this fight, but I was reading a little on the history of Marshall last night and stumbled across this:

"The US distributor at that time (Unicord Inc.) decided to switch to 6550 output tubes in favor of the EL34's. Too many Marshalls were coming back under warranty with defective output tubes. Apparently the EL34's didn't like to be knocked about while being shipped from Europe to the US of A. Instead of fitting new EL34's, Unicord decided to fit 6550's, thinking that these "heavier" tubes would last beyond the warranty period. This in itself was true, but many American guitar players were wondering why their Marshall amps sounded so different from their European brothers. Some people actually like the bright sound of the 6550's in their Marshall amps but most guitar players prefer the original sound of the EL34's."

Basically, this is not a new problem or solely an Egnater problem. It's a tube problem. Can you imagine the crucifixion Marshall would have experienced if the Internet was alive and well back then?

 

[musicmanmu]

What do you use for a solo boost ? I like you're rig there mate My current rig as good as it sounds is overkill for going back to pub gigs, a Cornford MK50, two Cornford 2x12's and a G System.

You're set up looks great, I was thinking the same amp wise and maybe an M9 and a wah, probably a tuner too as i didn't like the one in the M13.
Can you run the M9 using four cables in the Egnater ? Nice to hear you're having fun live with it

I think Bruce should ship these amps with better more reliable tubes, and up the price to cover it. I've been Googling for info on this amp for days and there's mainly complaints about the tubes , can't be good for business or potential sales. Plus there's a helluva lot of used ones for sale

Sorry for the late reply...I don't come here as often as I used to

At any rate...thanks! I really think its a great, versatile rig for 95% of the gigs I do (small/medium clubs). I could always borrow a 4x12 if I needed more air moving...

The M9 unfortunately only allows you to go out front or in the loop. I don't use any of the OD/distortion on the unit, so I run mine in the loop. I use channel 2 for my high gain and if I need a light OD, I use the Danelectro CTO (which is the best bang for your buck pedal out there IMHO). The only downside is that I'm not crazy about the filter effects on this thing. The auto wah (qtron) stuff doesn't sound good, and even with the expression pedal, I can't get a great wah sound - just a passable one. And it's a pain to engage the setting, use the exp. pedal, then disengage the setting... but I digress...

I use the Fulltone Fat Boost (V1) to boost the amp. Actually, I leave it on all the time. For solo boosts I use the EQ pedal (it's in the loop too).

As far as the tubes go, I know tubes are old technology and have to have sketchy fail rates, but it's a bit strange to me that the tubes in the Rebel blew within weeks, and the replacement tubes I have in now have been fine for more than a year. But whatever...I'm not knocking on Egnater at all! I love my amp and preach the Egnater gospel every gig I play

 

[gregrjones]

Can you imagine a manual that suggests the user carry not only fuses, but spare power tubes to every gig? Like I'm gonna take time in the middle of a set and swap tubes? Never. Not gonna happen. That's a non-starter. Had I known that before purchasing, I'd have never done it.

I've ALWAYS carried extra power tubes and a fuse to every gig no matter what tube amp I'm playing.

My previous amp, a Mesa Boogie Lone Star, blew a fuse because of a failing tube. This practice saved me for that gig. Mesa is definitely a reliable amp!

And no, I've never had problems with my Rebel and to date, have never had to use that extra fuse or power tube. I'm sorry you have had problems with yours.

If it is any consolation, because the Rebel's mix knob, if we blow a power tube, we have the option of simply turning on the good pair of power tubes...

 

[gregrjones]

I'm not about to fix a problem by carrying more spare parts, any more than you'd carry multiple spare tires because the tires that came with the car are liable to blow out frequently. I want to know why we're seeing this particular problem so I can fix it for good, and end up with something I can depend on. Does that make sense?

No, this doesn't make sense. ANY tube amp is prone to blowing a tube. Would it make sense to blame the quality of your guitar the next time you break a string to a gig? Are PRS owners free to not bring spare strings to gigs? Does THAT make sense?

 

[rlord1974]

Pretty much every User Manual that comes with any tube amp is going to recommend you always carry spare tubes to a gig.

Give me a break.....

'Nuff said.

 

[hbucker]

Some of my opinions and thoughts (none of which are directly targeted at anyone specific on this thread

- It's been my observation that the second people start buying products made in China, regardless of the brand, they broadcast flaws in this gear from the mountaintops as though somehow the other shoe has dropped and here is proof that Chinese gear is sub-par. The same issues could happen with a USA or UK product and people are much more willing to chalk it up to some bad luck. But a product out of Asia with the same problem suddenly is proof of bad workmanship or design. I think this is simply insecurity on the part of people who refuse to believe that under the right supervision and engineering, Asians can assemble products as well as anyone. I believe this is a large reason for the internet buzz about the Rebel amp problems. And there are a lot of people who will post trash about them even though they've never even played one, let alone bought one.

- I don't really understand why people have problems and instantly head to internet forums to broadcast their woes, unless they are more interested in broadcasting their woes than in fixing their problem. I'm more inclined to work toward getting my problem fixed and then post those results. Instead, people seem much more inclined to say, "So and so was rude to me or didn't pick up the phone, so now I'm just going to talk trash about the whole company to as many people as possible.

- I agree that the Egnater manual with my Renegade is outstanding. Very much user friendly. It didn't occur to me to think that it was so helpful so as to cover up flaws in my amp...

 

[BadBluesPlayer]

I want a Rebel 30 really bad!! Anybody who needs their tubes checked can send their amp to me for a thorough burn-in and testing session.

 

[Jammers5]

I have a Rebel 30 - within a week of owning it had a preamp tube pack it in. However, I had shut it off several times without setting it to standby mode to a very loud popping sound and wondered if that had anything to do with the tube failure. Called Egnater and a week later I had TWO new 12AX7 that have been in there ever since. also the footswitch failed and they sent me a new one.

That was over 2 years ago and haven't had a problem since. Still one of the best sounding amps and the most features of a tube amp at that pricepoint.

By comparison, I own a Fender Blues Junior and a Marshall Class 5. The BJ blew a power tube with less than 15 hours on it and the Class 5 blew a preamp tube with less that 20 hours on it. There are amps that are played in my basement, not all over the countryside so they are not banged around. So it's not just an Egnater thing. Shitty tubes are the issue.

J5

 

[LoveRock69]

Why not just ship these with no tubes installed but safely stored in their boxes and bubble-wrapped for shock absorption? Tubes are nothing to install. I've had failures from just about every brand of tube in Fenders and Peavey amps. They are perishable goods.

 

[monkeyonthelam]

Hi
This is my first post to rig-talk & I thought I might add my 2 cents worth. I'm a 50 (ugh) year old guitarist performing between 3-6 nights a week hear in Australia. I bought the Rebel 20 head + 112 ext cab in March and liked it so much I bought the Rebel 30 in May.
Having said that the Rebel 20 did occasionally give me some inconsistent output in terms of volume and distortion level and a number of weeks ago it did drop out completely onstage only to recover a few minutes later.

The Rebel 30 while equally great in terms of sound and versatility did also provide more serious problems. It very often would emit loud crackling noises and also started to make some other odd noises, culminating in tube failure last week. This happened while I was actually watching one of the EL84 tubes flickering only minutes after I wrote to the Egnater support dept. for advice.

I replaced the blown fuse and put in a new set of matched JJ EL84's. Incidently I have preferred JJ's over recent years. My Rebel 30 came with Ruby tubes and the Rebel 20 came with JJ's.

I haven't Biased an amp previously but following instructions I found from Bruce on Rig- Talk (& some interest and rudimentary knowledge of electronics) I biased the Rebel 30.

This is where I want to make what I think may be a valid point and I would love to hear a response from Bruce or the team as to whether this IS a possibly valid point.

The Rebel 30 has a bias rating of 40mVDC +/-4mVDC for both sets of output tubes. My test showed a reading of over 46 mVDC. Having done this I thought I would check the Rebel 20. Both sets were also a fair way out from the recommended reading.

Since making these changes both amps sound fantastic. No noise problems with either. There is a more even rate of increase in distortion with the gain knob on both whereas previously it would kick in quite a bit earlier and a lot bigger.
Due to illness I haven't gigged as much this last week but did perform 3 nights last week (We do 4 hour gigs with breaks) with the Rebel 30 and it sounded fantastic. I have also been giving the Rebel 20 a bit of a pounding in my home studio all week and it has also been sounding great with no problems and the more even distortion kick in is great.

My limited electronic knowledge does not tell me what factors contribute to changing bias settings but considering that my two amps were both only months old and both exhibited some similar sound problems followed by the tube failure in the Rebel 30, I would suggest that maybe it would be a good idea for owners, particularly new owners to get the bias checked as incorrect settings would be contributing to tube failure.
I keep a full set of tubes and replacement fuses with me, have done for years no matter which amp I have been using. I am glad my Rebel 30 failed at home but having said that the replacement of a fuse and 2 tubes does not take a lot of time and can be done during a break if you are performing over the course of an evening. Biasing I believe can wait until the next day.

Just a note on Egnater service Dept. I did write to the service@egneter.com link on the website some months ago with some questions about the inconsistent distortion on the REB20 but got no reply. I used the same link to ask about the REB30 minutes prior to it dying last week and got no reply. I also wrote to nate@egnater.com (a link I found on a few of Bruce's replies on Rig-Talk) to ask a few questions following the Reb30 tube failure and as yet have had no reply. Whilst I am not in need of urgent assistance it would be good to get a reply from someone at some time.

Other than that I am loving both amps and I shall report back if I get any further problems but I think the rebiasing may be critical in the question of early tube failure of course along with other factors like travel damage and of course the inherent fragility of tubes. As I alluded to earlier I would love to know what factors contribute to bias changes. Were my amps sent from the factory incorrectly biased or do other factors come into play (ie operating at 240v as opposed to the amp being built and initially biased on 110v...could this cause a more than desirable variance?)
4 gigs to perform this week at which I will probably use the 30 for 2 gigs and the 20 for the other 2.

 

[gavantia]

Just a note on Egnater service Dept. I did write to the service@egneter.com link on the website some months ago with some questions about the inconsistent distortion on the REB20 but got no reply. I used the same link to ask about the REB30 minutes prior to it dying last week and got no reply. I also wrote to nate@egnater.com (a link I found on a few of Bruce's replies on Rig-Talk) to ask a few questions following the Reb30 tube failure and as yet have had no reply. Whilst I am not in need of urgent assistance it would be good to get a reply from someone at some time.

Other than that I am loving both amps and I shall report back if I get any further problems but I think the rebiasing may be critical in the question of early tube failure of course along with other factors like travel damage and of course the inherent fragility of tubes. As I alluded to earlier I would love to know what factors contribute to bias changes. Were my amps sent from the factory incorrectly biased or do other factors come into play (ie operating at 240v as opposed to the amp being built and initially biased on 110v...could this cause a more than desirable variance?)
4 gigs to perform this week at which I will probably use the 30 for 2 gigs and the 20 for the other 2.

I also sent and email to their service department and got no reply either.

 

[MartyFreakman]

I had a question about my Rebel 20 and Mr Egnater responded out of the blue in like an hour of the post!!! I'd say that's pretty good customer service....wouldn't you guys?

BTW: I think my problem does happen to be tube related, but I have had my amp for a couple years now and its ran at high volume a lot. So i'd say they lasted pretty well.

 

[gitaryzt1985]

I owned an Egnater Rebel 30 about a year or so ago. It crackled and popped on me randomly for weeks until one day there was no sound, then all of a sudden it came back to life and never popped again. Tube issue? More than likely. I ended up selling it for a DRRI.

But, I just bought a Rebel 20 and love it...no issues yet. I also bought a Tweaker and had to go through 3 units before I got one that didn't crackle and pop.

Granted, it's all more than likely the tubes, but I've also ordered many amps in the past and never had an issue.

 

[Ian Egnater]

I owned an Egnater Rebel 30 about a year or so ago. It crackled and popped on me randomly for weeks until one day there was no sound, then all of a sudden it came back to life and never popped again. Tube issue? More than likely. I ended up selling it for a DRRI.

But, I just bought a Rebel 20 and love it...no issues yet. I also bought a Tweaker and had to go through 3 units before I got one that didn't crackle and pop.

Granted, it's all more than likely the tubes, but I've also ordered many amps in the past and never had an issue.

Unfortunately crackling and popping issues are more than likely tubes. We do have a tube warranty on our amps though, so if that is your only issue, there is no reason to take back an amp that otherwise works good. Just send an e-mail to nate@egnateramps.com, and he can help you out with that sort of situation. Some people are just unlucky and end up with amps that the tubes have failed after they left the warehouse, and this is exactly why we warranty them for a short time after you purchase a new amp. We do have thousands of amps out there that have never experienced any issues though, so please just don't assume every one of our amps has issues.

 

[ramblin390]

My friend just bought a rebel 30 from the clearwater Guitar center, after 3 weeks it went dead, he got someone from egnater over the phone and it was suggested he to go to radio shack and get a specific fuse. He decided to go back to gc and get another-they didn't have 1, so he went to tampa's gc, the one there (a floor model) it was doa- so they ordered him a new one. He loves the amp, but is now worried about his purchase. I have read in a few threads about the fuse being to low.

 

[Ian Egnater]

My friend just bought a rebel 30 from the clearwater Guitar center, after 3 weeks it went dead, he got someone from egnater over the phone and it was suggested he to go to radio shack and get a specific fuse. He decided to go back to gc and get another-they didn't have 1, so he went to tampa's gc, the one there (a floor model) it was doa- so they ordered him a new one. He loves the amp, but is now worried about his purchase. I have read in a few threads about the fuse being to low.

Which fuse did he blow? I can guarantee that the fuses are not rated too low, and that is just nonsense honestly. I only ask though, because if he blew a power tube fuse, then that is a sign of a bad power tube, not a low value fuse. In fact if people start putting higher value fuses in there, they do run the risk of the fuse not doing it's job of protecting the amp.

 

[ramblin390]

I was wondering about the fuse rating from what I've read, he said it was the fuse on the back panel-I haven't had time to go over his house. He has a new one on the way. I told him he probably blew a tube and it took out a fuse. He's a rookie.

 

[bruce egnater]

To Gavantia.....I'm sorry you did not get a reply from your emails but service@egneter.com and nate@egnater.com are both incorrect email addresses.
nate@egnateramps.com is the correct address for direct contact with Nate.

Thanks

 

[Waxhead]

Hi guys,
Going back to small bar gigs and a smaller car so gonna downsize my rig.

Quite fancy a Rebel 30 head and two 1x12's but having spent a couple of hours on Google last night seems like everyone agrees these amps sound great but come with tons of reliability/tube issues ?
A lot of folk on forums are onto there 3rd and 4th amps still with problems and there's a helluva lot up for sale ??

Any thoughts guys ??

Ains

My amp tech (who's also a boutique amp builder) opined the Fuse in the back of the R30 is slightly underpowered there and would likely lead to tube & fuse issues.
I put in a higher capacity fuse costing 25c and 1 minute of my time.
Have never had any issues with my R30 head in over 12 months gigging.
Very reliable amp imo

 

[JeepGuy04]

Hi guys,
Going back to small bar gigs and a smaller car so gonna downsize my rig.

Quite fancy a Rebel 30 head and two 1x12's but having spent a couple of hours on Google last night seems like everyone agrees these amps sound great but come with tons of reliability/tube issues ?
A lot of folk on forums are onto there 3rd and 4th amps still with problems and there's a helluva lot up for sale ??

Any thoughts guys ??

Ains

My amp tech (who's also a boutique amp builder) opined the Fuse in the back of the R30 is slightly underpowered there and would likely lead to tube & fuse issues.
I put in a higher capacity fuse costing 25c and 1 minute of my time.
Have never had any issues with my R30 head in over 12 months gigging.
Very reliable amp imo

Yeah but... if you put a higher capacity fuse in there and you do eventually have an issue the higher capacity fuse would take more load before blowing right??? so your running the risk of damaging costly amp components and probably voiding your warranty.