Reinhold Bogner Quote

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The following is a quote from Reinhold located on the Bogner website:


17 years ago to date as of 2009. It was the time when most of the people where using external multi channel pre-amps to achieve a vast variety of sounds, some used multiple amp setups. Reinhold realized two things early on, a split system of pre and power amp can not give you the dynamics and response of a single circuit which incorporates both, second there is a need to make an amplifier head which covers a huge tonal pallet of tones but with the organic feel and tone of the good old amps from the 60's.

Any thoughts on the language in blue font? Many great tones have been created via a split pre and power amp system. I can understand that a power and pre designed to be used together might be optimal but is your tone really that limited by using a separate power and pre?
 
gtrlw":2t1awum5 said:
The following is a quote from Reinhold located on the Bogner website:


17 years ago to date as of 2009. It was the time when most of the people where using external multi channel pre-amps to achieve a vast variety of sounds, some used multiple amp setups. Reinhold realized two things early on, a split system of pre and power amp can not give you the dynamics and response of a single circuit which incorporates both, second there is a need to make an amplifier head which covers a huge tonal pallet of tones but with the organic feel and tone of the good old amps from the 60's.

Any thoughts on the language in blue font? Many great tones have been created via a split pre and power amp system. I can understand that a power and pre designed to be used together might be optimal but is your tone really that limited by using a separate power and pre?
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He says the feel and response can't be captured...that has little to do with tone.
 
"Dynamics and response" - it all has a bearing on the tone- right?
 
I've never been that thrilled at any tone I've gotten using a poweramp with either tube preamps opr modelers. A good sounding amp head always sounds best to me, I do agree with him on this. I'm sure those that use rack gear will disagree though.
 
I agree with Bogner's statement. If you're trying to get the same response as an amp "head" by using a separate preamp and poweramp, it's probably not going to happen 100% (unless the amp is designed in such a way that it might as well be like a separate preamp and poweramp, which is possible).

Whether you care or not is another story. Usually, I do. Sometimes though, I don't.
 
Hi James.

Sometimes I care too but usually I don't. When I do care I sometimes wonder if I should care. Generally, I realize I shouldn't care so I stop caring. There are also occasions where I don't care and then later realize that I should have. But mostly, I just don't care.
 
Bob Savage":yo816hz8 said:
Hi James.

Sometimes I care too but usually I don't. When I do care I sometimes wonder if I should care. Generally, I realize I shouldn't care so I stop caring. There are also occasions where I don't care and then later realize that I should have. But mostly, I just don't care.
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:lol: :LOL:

Steve
 
Bob Savage":z3mnthmv said:
Hi James.

Sometimes I care too but usually I don't. When I do care I sometimes wonder if I should care. Generally, I realize I shouldn't care so I stop caring. There are also occasions where I don't care and then later realize that I should have. But mostly, I just don't care.
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Yes... well spoken, Bob! :)
 
John Suhr has said that it's got to do with the transformer(s). If you could use the same power for all units in a rack, it would respond and sound like a head.
 
So does that mean that a W/D/W rig (with a necessary separate power amp) is inferior to a head with an effects loop, from a dynamics and responsiveness standpoint?
 
I had a pre / poweramp setup, and it did have something missing, not the first person to notice that too, so perhaps there really is something to that.
 
marvcus":rjvbb141 said:
So does that mean that a W/D/W rig (with a necessary separate power amp) is inferior to a head with an effects loop, from a dynamics and responsiveness standpoint?
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Not what he's talking about...but FWIW in a W/D/W you have the amp's tone and then run a signal to the sauce, efx loop you ending up with a mix of sauce and base tone so that will be immediately different.

And yes I agree with Reinhold's statement too. As does damn enar any amp guy. Look at Bradshaw after years of loaded down heads and pre/power amp rack systems he decided that adding sauce to a dry signal was way better in the sonics department.
 
Like peanut better and jelly.....together they make a great sandwich. Stand alone, they are pretty bland.

Steve
 
I agree with him. I've tried the rack thing, and they just never sounded or felt as alive as my heads.
 
Audioholic":hm0pbzj0 said:
I had a pre / poweramp setup, and it did have something missing, not the first person to notice that too, so perhaps there really is something to that.
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I've been down that road as well. Maybe I wasn't setting it up correctly, never felt it had the same for lack of a better word "umph" as a head.
 
I'll take the versatility of a rack set-up over losing a bit of dynamics anyday. Buy a good preamp/poweramp combo and the dynamics lost etc. is minimal.
 
I agree with the OP as well. I feel the loss in punch/dynamics mostly has to do with the required buffering (and potential impedance mismatches) between the preamp and power amp and everything you put in the middle. The separate power supplies may contribute as well, though it's a more subtle effect. The load and sag caused by the power output in a head has an audible effect on the preamp section, however we do things to filter this, and tailor the response of the amp as such.

The limitations inherent with split setups is why I started building 3U rack mount heads with transparent effects loops. This gives the the rack guys something that sounds just like a head, yet only takes up the same amount of space as a 2U power amp and 1U preamp...



Personally, my favorite Bogner quote is, in a heavy German accent, "This party fucking sucks!!!". :lol: :LOL:
 
Bit of an over-generalisation methinks.

I run my Mako MAK4 preamp through a Diezel Herbert head power amp (SED 6550/EL34 mix)...it slays every single amp I've had before, eg Herbert, Recto, 5150, Mesa Mk series...anything I've played really, for my tastes.

Probably WOULD sound better in the same head, but so far it doesn't exist! :D
 
I also couldn't get the punch/rawness/responsiveness out of separation. I might not of found the right combo though. I like the flexability of a rack but the sound of a head. That is why I do a hybrid thing now (midi switching head w/ racked effects).
 
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