Reinhold Bogner Quote

[Bob Savage]

Nothing touches my Roland GP-8 and Carvin FET-400 power amp. NOTHING!

 

[skoora]

I can't explain why electronically, but I always found pre's sounded much better using heads (usually Marshall) for power than separate, rack power amps. I think Metallica slaved their 2C+ into Marshall heads for Power IIRC.

I remember working in a store where we would take the JMP-1 and Triaxis and they would both sound better going into the return of a DSL's loop than using either the 9200/EL34 100/100 or Mesa 2:90.

 

[roadifier]

I can't explain why electronically, but I always found pre's sounded much better using heads (usually Marshall) for power than separate, rack power amps. I think Metallica slaved their 2C+ into Marshall heads for Power IIRC.

I remember working in a store where we would take the JMP-1 and Triaxis and they would both sound better going into the return of a DSL's loop than using either the 9200/EL34 100/100 or Mesa 2:90.

Metallica slaved their IIC+'s into marshalls and used separate strategy 400 power amps with studio preamps.
But later on I also remember they started using their IIC+'s slaved into strategy 400's

 

[guitarslinger]

Meh, he was probably try to sell XTC heads that week.

I'll pit my Fish/2150 setup against anything.

 

[Ventura]

I agree with him. I've tried the rack thing, and they just never sounded or felt as alive as my heads.

I've got both, and if you find what you like, they'll both kickass in the right hands at the right time.

I don't read too much into this, I say his amps kick ass. As do many, many others... I'll also state that Andrew's bit of Mak4 magic kicks all kinds of ass, but it's not everyone's cup o' tea. So it goes. I also dig Fryette - imagine that, I lucked out on my first poweramp purchase. Quiet and super potent - f*ckin' beast.

Play what you have, and play it hard... Some of the best players of our lives and in our influential make-up made heaven out of hell. They had shit gear, but knew how to make it sing. Transformers, preamps, tubes, wiring, speakers, impedance, woods, active, passive..............

......it all means shit without passion

V.

 

[Bob Savage]

Meh, he was probably try to sell XTC heads that week.

I'll pit my Fish/2150 setup against anything.

Can't touch my GP-8 rig.

 

[DeezDemos]

I wonder if the folks at Line6 have ever seen this text in "Blue"..........?

 

[Bob Savage]

I wonder if the folks at Line6 have ever seen this text in "Blue"..........?

Blue is my favorite color but I've been declared colorblind since kindergarten so would you mind explaining what you mean? I understand part of it but the rest seems too black and white.

 

[Trippled]

Yeah, heard that john suhr quote too, never tried a pre+power amp setup but I rock my Twin Jet to death (-:
I always thought though that the whole modeling thing is so pointless in live applications when even a pre+power setup cant give you the mojo of a head.

 

[petejt]

I agree with Reinhold Bogner. I've used preamps into poweramps and although it can sound good, it's not as good as a straight up amp head. It just doesn't have the same feel.

It could be just the fact of using low quality cables to connect the preamp & poweramp, rather than just a hardwired connection.
But I still prefer using a full amp head.


For wet/dry/wet, it's better to run an amp head and then slave out its signal: either via a Slave Out connection, or the speaker output to a line level box (e.g. an attenuator with line out). Then feed that signal to your effects, and then a separate external poweramp & speakers. It's better than just an effects loop.

 

[Shark Diver]

From the guy who sold how many Fish? Not sure Cantrell would agree with him.

And DeLeo has a pretty amazing tone with his Demeter pre and VHT Classic

Lukather with his CAEs.

I run my Fish into VHT Classic. I slave my heads. I still haven't heard anything better - if I did I'd play it.

 

[JTyson]

I have both setups here, I agree with his statement as far as dynamics and responce go. I do think we are splitting hairs, the difference seems to be minimal, but it is there

 

[jlbaxe]

Hmmmm…….I think it comes down to the pre-amp/amp combination. The Eggy M4 through the RT2/50 had that amp head feel but my Carvin Quad-X and ADA MP1 and MP2 didn't have the same feel. It did breath more life into those units.

Im sure Fish, CAE and Mako preamps would sound great through a RT2/50, VHT or Soldano power amp. Comes down to quality and design of both Pre and Amp units.

My Axe feels and sounds great through the RT or the return loops of my 2 Amp heads. It seemed like it lost a lot of that with the ART SLA2.

I cant remember any of those giving me my tone/feel of say my mesa on that sweet spot but they had their own thing going on that made them unique.

 

[JMP2203]

i played rack setups like 10 years, some preamps have the punch and tone of heads, same for poweramps

the best combination i had was ENGL preamps 570&620 with a mesa coliseum 300 or 295, those preamps and poweramps where amazings and it sounded like a head to me, JMP1 was very good also

BUT some preamps really sounded weak to me: triaxis and egnater M4(good tone but no punch)

also i had no luck with VHT2502, again, good tone but no punch, too distant sounding

 

[novosibir]

a split system of pre and power amp can not give you the dynamics and response of a single circuit which incorporates both

I agree with Bogner's statement. If you're trying to get the same response as an amp "head" by using a separate preamp and poweramp, it's probably not going to happen 100% (unless the amp is designed in such a way that it might as well be like a separate preamp and poweramp, which is possible).

I also agree with Reinhold's statement.

And the following quote already is a diffuse hint to the reason, why:

John Suhr has said that it's got to do with the transformer(s). If you could use the same power for all units in a rack, it would respond and sound like a head.

Keep in mind, that in an amp head the entire preamp's voltage supply usually is taken of the power voltage supply.
As long as you're playing an amp head pretty quite, the head does have the same dynamics and response like a split system w/ separate preamp and poweramp, but...

... as soon as you're playing loud and you struck a chord, the voltage in the power section of a head is sagging, dropping - dropping down from i.e. 480V B+ at idle down to 380...400V at full blast i.e. in old Plexi Marshalls or down to 420...440V in amps with a more stable filtering like i.e. in a SLO100

So what happens, if/when the preamp's voltage supply is taken of the power stage's supply? Yes, the preamp's voltage supply also is sagging - and recovering - and sagging again...

In a separate preamp the voltage supply always stays stable w/o any sag during playing - and this is, what's influencing the dynamic and response difference of both methods, the more, the louder you're playing.

Larry

 

[Piero the Guitarero]

From the 1991 interview I've posted in the "Best poweramp for te fish" Thread

G&B: In germany, heads have become more populare

RB: If you ask me, a head is superior to a preamp.
Even if you have a preamp with a tube poweramp and you
made a good job, it will never sound like a head, just from
aspect of the "feel" if you play it. I considered this when I
developed my preamp, and I tried to make it as similar as
possible, but you never ever get it 100%.
I like heads more but here in L.A. preamps are selling better,
that's why I started with a preamp. But also in L.A. the times
are changing.

G&B: Whats your oppinion to use a head for a dry sound
and put the effects on a stereo system (w/d/w)?

RB: Thats the only way to go...

G&B: ...but its expensive

RB: If you are playing big venues it doesn't matter,
it's the only way to do it right.

 

[degenaro]

a split system of pre and power amp can not give you the dynamics and response of a single circuit which incorporates both

I agree with Bogner's statement. If you're trying to get the same response as an amp "head" by using a separate preamp and poweramp, it's probably not going to happen 100% (unless the amp is designed in such a way that it might as well be like a separate preamp and poweramp, which is possible).

I also agree with Reinhold's statement.

And the following quote already is a diffuse hint to the reason, why:

John Suhr has said that it's got to do with the transformer(s). If you could use the same power for all units in a rack, it would respond and sound like a head.

Keep in mind, that in an amp head the entire preamp's voltage supply usually is taken of the power voltage supply.
As long as you're playing an amp head pretty quite, the head does have the same dynamics and response like a split system w/ separate preamp and poweramp, but...

... as soon as you're playing loud and you struck a chord, the voltage in the power section of a head is sagging, dropping - dropping down from i.e. 480V B+ at idle down to 380...400V at full blast i.e. in old Plexi Marshalls or down to 420...440V in amps with a more stable filtering like i.e. in a SLO100

So what happens, if/when the preamp's voltage supply is taken of the power stage's supply? Yes, the preamp's voltage supply also is sagging - and recovering - and sagging again...

In a separate preamp the voltage supply always stays stable w/o any sag during playing - and this is, what's influencing the dynamic and response difference of both methods, the more, the louder you're playing.

Larry

Ja servus nermbercher!

 

[novosibir]

Ja servus nermbercher!

Ja servus niebergschmeckter Ami

 

[degenaro]

Ja servus nermbercher!

Ja servus niebergschmeckter Ami

Binn ka Ami, hab imma nu mein Deitschen Ausweis...

 

[novosibir]

Binn ka Ami, hab imma nu mein Deitschen Ausweis...

Ah suuu, dann iss ja alles baleddi. Bist wohl aa aus Nermberch? Odda aus Frangn?