Seems Marshall new ownership starting the downward slide to make more money.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Tone Junkie
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technomancer said:
I got both of my 1959HWs from these guys:

https://www.musicstore.com/en_US/USD/brands/marshall

They're currently out of stock on the 1959HW and 2023X but have the 1987X in stock (those are IIRC the only 3 with universal transformers, anything else would require a transformer swap or external transformer).

Be warned though shipping at this time of year sucks, I ordered a 1959HW at the tail end of October and it didn't get here until the end of November.
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I'd have to imagine the 1987x they have in stock has the Vietnamese transformers though, no?
 
Soundstorm said:
I'd have to imagine the 1987x they have in stock has the Vietnamese transformers though, no?
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Which if you've read the thread gets a resounding who cares. Even if the transformers were bad (which having 2 1959HW with them in it they're not) I could buy a set of Heyboers for under $400 and install then in an afternoon and still be ahead of a used amp in the US.

Any new Marshall is more likely than not going to have the new transformers. It's a non-issue. Hell even Jason admits the amp he had sounded fine with them.

Soundstorm said:
They won't ship Diezels either unfortunately
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I'll let you know the next time they have a VH4 in stock... but the message saying they won't ship doesn't come up when you go to check out, just a note it runs on EU voltages.
 
technomancer said:
Which if you've read the thread gets a resounding who cares. Even if the transformers were bad (which having 2 1959HW with them in it they're not) I could buy a set of Heyboers for under $400 and install then in an afternoon and still be ahead of a used amp in the US.

Any new Marshall is more likely than not going to have the new transformers. It's a non-issue. Hell even Jason admits the amp he had sounded fine with them.



I'll let you know the next time they have a VH4 in stock... but the message saying they won't ship doesn't come up when you go to check out, just a note it runs on EU voltages.
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I tried to buy a Hagen through Thomann and went through the motions, and at the very end got an email from them saying they couldn't sell Diezel to the US. But I also had to special order it, so maybe if there's one in stock you'll get lucky and it'll slip through the cracks.
 
Soundstorm said:
I tried to buy a Hagen through Thomann and went through the motions, and at the very end got an email from them saying they couldn't sell Diezel to the US. But I also had to special order it, so maybe if there's one in stock you'll get lucky and it'll slip through the cracks.
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Ah that's a bummer... hopefully the restrictions have changed as I know it used to flat out do the popup it does with Marshall about them not being able to ship to the US.
 
Simon Dorn said:
Maybe i should open a private shop? :D
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I would help out any European or Australian brothers out…hell any forum bros anywhere with any USA purchases. If they find something here and they won’t ship overseas, drop ship it to me and I’ll forward it on. You pay of course. I know it’s extra shipping but I will look out for any Rigtalk homies anywhere….
 
Soundstorm said:
I'd have to imagine the 1987x they have in stock has the Vietnamese transformers though, no?
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Jakem said:
I checked the bias of my 1987x today, manufactured week 10/23, and it looks like I have a vietnamese made PT and an european made OT.
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Don’t know if the Output Transformers have been changed to Vietnamese ones these days.
 
Not to worry, Phan Thi Kim Phúc is head of the Vietnam Transformer Factory.

Seriously, who cares? With all the great Boutique guys around it's a no-brainer.
 
Seems like even going vintage if you're a purist is somewhat iffy given factory variance and parts swaps, not to mention mods. That being said, the trans are one of the more significant and unique aspects of the tone. I ended up with a ceriatone instead of a reissue and am pleased. I suspect it covers 99% of the sound but I haven't had the chance to do a rigorous comparison. Given what I've seen on YT though I think most people would be hard pressed to tell a difference. There's probably larger variations from vintage marshalls of different years, maybe even the same years.
 
I'm usually slow to news like this but found out thanks to a youtube comment. A few comments of my own:

glpg80 said:
Marshall is playing with fire. There are countless companies doing a 2203x at this moment that if you aren’t getting real dagnall made in UK iron with your Marshall that the doors are WIDE open to do whatever you want on your own 2203 kit of preference.
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Dagnalls sometime in the late 90s or early 00's were made in Malta (an island in the Mediterranean) for the purposes of cheaper labor already. Definitely anything after 2009 has a Malta made Dagnall in it, but even some before that as the transition was happening as early as 1999.

If you look at your transformer and it has the "MGC" stamp on it, it's definitely Malta, if that matters to you. Hard to get good details because the original Dagnall company folded and never clarified in their records when things moved, and I couldn't find much about it online.

For reference, here is a 2006 Vintage Modern 2466 with a Malta-made Dagnall transformer so you can see the MGC stamp:
NFX_5292.jpg

My 2007 JVM410's also have the MGC stamp.
My 2005 JCM800 2203X does not have this stamp so I'm unsure where that one was made, but my 2003 1987X also has the MGC stamp.
From what I understand, amps made during this time (early 2000's) some were made in UK and others by MGC, both under the Dagnall name.
(Just for the sake of completeness, my 2000 TSL100 does not have the stamp which to me implies that one is UK made as well).

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Anyway, details aside, my point is that any Marshall amp made in the last 15 years or so didn't have UK made iron. If Marshall had just slapped the Dagnall stamp onto these new Vietnamese transformers and put out some quiet press release saying they are made to the same spec "under Dagnall UK supervision" there probably would be even less to talk about except by us detail oriented gear heads.

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RedPlated said:
They all have had these new transformers, yet they are some of the best sounding amps lately.
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Here's the thing, they probably sound great. We all accept Chinese and Japanese made resistors, opamps, caps, and other components as part of modern manufacturing, even my "fancy" Bogner's have MIC components all across the board.

My problem with this whole thing is the prices, at least in the US. We shouldn't have to circumvent our supply chain by ordering from Europe just to get a fair price on an amp, especially with cost-cutting measures like this.

Example: In 2005, My JCM800 2203X was around $1399 street. Adjusted for inflation to today, that's about $2200. So if these new transformers are made overseas to save costs, and production volume is larger and more streamlined and cheaper than ever before, then why the hell is a new 2203X $3549 right now?
I mean, that's way higher than inflation merits. If anything, it should be even *less* than $2200 to account for the cost savings of making more components in areas with cheaper labor cost.

The sad reality is that companies have to do this awkward mating dance thing, of puffing up and looking like they are continually turning a higher profit every year to retain/gain investors and value in the company. In a market like guitars, or other sectors, it's just not realistic - yes there are more people in the world right now to consume these products, but it's ridiculous that something as incorporeal as "investor sentiment" can totally kill an otherwise good company making consistently good products.

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Edit: Just to clarify, I quoted you two just for context about what I was saying. Not saying you guys are wrong or anything like that
 
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TotallyRadGuitars said:
I'm usually slow to news like this but found out thanks to a youtube comment. A few comments of my own:


Dagnalls sometime in the late 90s or early 00's were made in Malta (an island in the Mediterranean) for the purposes of cheaper labor already. Definitely anything after 2009 has a Malta made Dagnall in it, but even some before that as the transition was happening as early as 1999.

If you look at your transformer and it has the "MGC" stamp on it, it's definitely Malta, if that matters to you. Hard to get good details because the original Dagnall company folded and never clarified in their records when things moved, and I couldn't find much about it online.

For reference, here is a 2006 Vintage Modern 2466 with a Malta-made Dagnall transformer so you can see the MGC stamp:
View attachment 273021
My 2007 JVM410's also have the MGC stamp.
My 2005 JCM800 2203X does not have this stamp so I'm unsure where that one was made, but my 2003 1987X also has the MGC stamp.
From what I understand, amps made during this time (early 2000's) some were made in UK and others by MGC, both under the Dagnall name.
(Just for the sake of completeness, my 2000 TSL100 does not have the stamp which to me implies that one is UK made as well).

---

Anyway, details aside, my point is that any Marshall amp made in the last 15 years or so didn't have UK made iron. If Marshall had just slapped the Dagnall stamp onto these new Vietnamese transformers and put out some quiet press release saying they are made to the same spec "under Dagnall UK supervision" there probably would be even less to talk about except by us detail oriented gear heads.

---


Here's the thing, they probably sound great. We all accept Chinese and Japanese made resistors, opamps, caps, and other components as part of modern manufacturing, even my "fancy" Bogner's have MIC components all across the board.

My problem with this whole thing is the prices, at least in the US. We shouldn't have to circumvent our supply chain by ordering from Europe just to get a fair price on an amp, especially with cost-cutting measures like this.

Example: In 2005, My JCM800 2203X was around $1399 street. Adjusted for inflation to today, that's about $2200. So if these new transformers are made overseas to save costs, and production volume is larger and more streamlined and cheaper than ever before, then why the hell is a new 2203X $3549 right now?
I mean, that's way higher than inflation merits. If anything, it should be even *less* than $2200 to account for the cost savings of making more components in areas with cheaper labor cost.

The sad reality is that companies have to do this awkward mating dance thing, of puffing up and looking like they are continually turning a higher profit every year to retain/gain investors and value in the company. In a market like guitars, or other sectors, it's just not realistic - yes there are more people in the world right now to consume these products, but it's ridiculous that something as incorporeal as "investor sentiment" can totally kill an otherwise good company making consistently good products.

---

Edit: Just to clarify, I quoted you two just for context about what I was saying. Not saying you guys are wrong or anything like that
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Well said. When they are using cheap labor - that probably doesn’t care about quality, to save big chunks of money and CNC machines to cut more labor costs yet raising product prices so the CEO can get his 5 million dollar bonus (random number) who is winning and who is loosing.
Yeah product works and has brand name attached, but the value is gone and will the newer products stand the test of time.
If you graphed it one line goes up - profit and the other down quality.
I have no dog in the hunt. Not my hard earned money.
That’s why you see such a big demand for the small builders on boards like this.
Marshall vs monomyth or ground zero or headfirst etc. big logo vs quality build and killer tone
 
Tone Junkie said:
Well said. When they are using cheap labor - that probably doesn’t care about quality, to save big chunks of money and CNC machines to cut more labor costs yet raising product prices so the CEO can get his 5 million dollar bonus (random number) who is winning and who is loosing.
Yeah product works and has brand name attached, but the value is gone and will the newer products stand the test of time.
If you graphed it one line goes up - profit and the other down quality.
I have no dog in the hunt. Not my hard earned money.
That’s why you see such a big demand for the small builders on boards like this.
Marshall vs monomyth or ground zero or headfirst etc. big logo vs quality build and killer tone
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This is absolutely hilarious given Ground Zero has already chimed in saying he's been modding these and they sound fantastic.

I'm sure it is cheaper to wind in house when you already have other transformers being wound vs a new facility, but quality comments are generalizations based on nothing but personal bias. Have you actually played one of these? Have you heard any complaints about Marshall iron in the last year or so? These have been in the wild since at least March and this is the first time anybody even noticed they're different. It was only noticed due to a bell housing vibration issue that was easily fixed and would have been covered under warranty.

I do agree if you're paying the US markups on these you're nuts though.

Oh and if you do get a new 1959 and it's too bright for you check the mixer resistor bypass cap and the tonestack treble cap, both of mine were 560pF which is a bit much. Drop those to 500pF and it sounds great.
 
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this is why i refuse to buy any mass produced amp in the last 30 yrs.

rather buy booteek. for about the same as they get for so called RI's or a few $$$ more i'll get quality

can you say Germino, Carr, Allen or Vintage sounds just to name a few
 
A tip for the recent 1959 HW’s…

The factory PI filter is a 50/50 radial can. However, only one side is connected to the PI voltage supply, making total filtering only 50uF. All the amps I’ve had come through here have been this way. It appears Marshall is leaving one side disconnected to simulate 68 Super Lead filtering (32/32 paralleled) and consequently obtain more “sag.”

I prefer the more aggressive and punchy metal panel era filtering so I simply connect the other side of the filter on the HW’s, for a total 100uF PI filtering. 2 minute mod that will make a difference.
 
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