Silver jubilee or slash 2555sl > other diode amps?

  • Thread starter Thread starter uzeurillus1on1982
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guitarded_1 said:
I love it how so many of the anti diode guys play with a dirt pedal in front of their sacred all tube Marshalls. My Jube sounds outrageously good and totally hangs with my 2204 plus pedal.
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I enjoy both if the examples are high quality enough (like Klon for pedals or a good enough mod), but I think like glpg said before (he knows the technical stuff) they happen in different places and more importantly using our ears they just are different types of sounds that imo both can be good (maybe like apples vs pears rather oranges lol)

For the most part I do prefer a good stock Marshall boosted with a pedal to most mods I’ve had/played (even Cameron’s), but my favorite mods I’ve played so far I felt did surpass my stock Marshall’s boosted. It’s just a surprisingly hard task it seems to mod an amp to actually sound better than a good stock Marshall boosted
 
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glpg80 said:
I fucking hate diodes in an amp. Thins them out and you lose a ton of headroom that makes an amp loud. It’s not the same as boosting an amp not even close. You’re messing with the impedance curves of the tonestack with diodes placed later after preamp tubes which you’re not doing with diodes before the preamp tubes. Location of the diodes matters just as much as the types of diodes used.
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Jose style diode clipping sounds like ass. Saturated mush tones. Running a pedal as a boost in front is not the same. I would think running level on ten and gain off to very low is not clipping the diodes anyway.

Wizards use led’s as do the jubilees / 2210’s ( if I remember right). With the Wizard open you can play thru it and see when they start to light up.
Jcm 900’s even the SLX I had zero luck getting anything I liked out of them.
 
napalmdeath said:
I don't believe there's any diodes on the Lead channel if the rhythm clip is not engaged. I could be completely wrong, however.

But, I can say for sure, (from owning Jubilees), it's drastically less fizzy and grainy leaving the rhythm clip OFF on the lead channel and cranking the output master, and using the lead master for volume. It's a hair more gain than an 800, and sounds fantastic boosting with a pedal. Big and fat. That's the only way I'd use it. Basically as a single channel amp.

I'm willing to bet that's how Gary Holt uses it. There's no way he'd double-boost the Lead Channel with the rhythm clip engaged. It would sound like shit.

In fact, I hated the first one I got. But later discovered it was complete user error. I later learned how to properly use the Output/Lead Master volumes, hit it with a boost, and leave the rhythm clip OFF. Totally different experience, and a happy one.
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There are two sets of diodes in the 2550/2555. One is on the lead channel. It's always on. That's how that channel gets its distortion, or well most of it. The other is on the rhythm clip. The two diode setups are different, so naturally sound different.
 
napalmdeath said:
I don't use the diode clipping on a Jubilee, I don't like it. Not because of diodes, it just doesn't sound good to me. I prefer to crank the output master and use the lead master for volume and hit it with a boost. Way fatter to my ears.
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One the lead channel does the push in or pull out engage the diodes ?
 
uzeurillus1on1982 said:
I recently did some tube swapping in my Marshall 2555sl which is basically a silver jubilee with slash’s signature slapped on it and it got me thinking….why do most Marshall purist dislike diode clipping except when it comes to the silver jubilee? I never owned a jcm900 and only briefly had a 2205 not even long enough to form an opinion
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I don't particularly love the 2555, but on the other hand I absolutely love the later circuit 2205/2210's and the 2100/2500 Mk III is one of my favorite amp designs. Over on the Marshall forums the 2205/2210/MkIII's get glowing reviews, but the 2555's are a bit more polarizing. If anything, I'd say the Jubilee is one of the Marshalls that is most likely to start a forum "tiffy" because it's so different.
That's not to say I hate the Jubilees, it's a great tool and does a few tones that no other amp does.

You mentioned JCM900 and I have to clarify something. The JCM900 2100/2500 MkIII has clipping diodes (gain sensitivity control) but is otherwise close to a 2203/2204 design, just a few differences in gain staging and power amp. This amp might not be everyone's favorite but it's VERY different from the 4100/4500 Dual Reverb. When people say that they hated the "diode clipping" in their JCM900 Dual Reverb, they usually don't understand what is going on - that amp has only a single tube gain stage and the entire design is based on op-amps. Yes it also has diodes, LED's actually, but just removing them does not make that amp an all-tube monster or anything of the sort. Not trying to trash on Dual Reverbs, it definitely has a unique sound that I like sometimes, but it's a big departure from the traditional Marshall sound because it's also a big departure in design, and reducing those changes to "diodes" is focusing on a relatively small part of it. The last JCM900 variant, SL-X, does not have diodes or opamps.

napalmdeath said:
I don't believe there's any diodes on the Lead channel if the rhythm clip is not engaged. I could be completely wrong, however.
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You do have this mixed up a bit. If you are on the lead channel at all, and you haven't modified the amp, there are 5 diodes in an asymmetric array on the lead channel no matter what. If you have the input gain maxed, the diodes are in full force, nothing you do with the output or lead master affects the amount of diode clipping in the circuit. The input gain can reduce their effect on the tone (less voltage going through them) but obviously gain in general goes down since that includes the tube stages too.

The rhythm clip also is not in the circuit at all when on the lead channel, pulling it has no effect. If it does, you might have a short or some other problem somewhere. I have a recently repaired+healthy 2555X right here and the rhythm clip does not make any audible change when pulling out or in while on the lead channel, even set up the way you described.

Not doubting you on the tone of course, it sounds great at lots of different settings.
 
TotallyRadGuitars said:
The rhythm clip also is not in the circuit at all when on the lead channel, pulling it has no effect. I have a recently repaired+healthy 2555X right here and the rhythm clip does not make any audible change when pulling out or in while on the lead channel, even set up the way you described.
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I had always heard the rhythm clip affected the lead. That was the magic hack. Weird
 
Meanjoegreene said:
One the lead channel does the push in or pull out engage the diodes ?
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They're always in use in the Jubilee and 2210/05. The rhythm clip pulled, adds more gain but drops the vol some. Maybe pulling it sends
TotallyRadGuitars said:
I don't particularly love the 2555, but on the other hand I absolutely love the later circuit 2205/2210's and the 2100/2500 Mk III is one of my favorite amp designs. Over on the Marshall forums the 2205/2210/MkIII's get glowing reviews, but the 2555's are a bit more polarizing. If anything, I'd say the Jubilee is one of the Marshalls that is most likely to start a forum "tiffy" because it's so different.
That's not to say I hate the Jubilees, it's a great tool and does a few tones that no other amp does.

You mentioned JCM900 and I have to clarify something. The JCM900 2100/2500 MkIII has clipping diodes (gain sensitivity control) but is otherwise close to a 2203/2204 design, just a few differences in gain staging and power amp. This amp might not be everyone's favorite but it's VERY different from the 4100/4500 Dual Reverb. When people say that they hated the "diode clipping" in their JCM900 Dual Reverb, they usually don't understand what is going on - that amp has only a single tube gain stage and the entire design is based on op-amps. Yes it also has diodes, LED's actually, but just removing them does not make that amp an all-tube monster or anything of the sort. Not trying to trash on Dual Reverbs, it definitely has a unique sound that I like sometimes, but it's a big departure from the traditional Marshall sound because it's also a big departure in design, and reducing those changes to "diodes" is focusing on a relatively small part of it. The last JCM900 variant, SL-X, does not have diodes or opamps.


You do have this mixed up a bit. If you are on the lead channel at all, and you haven't modified the amp, there are 5 diodes in an asymmetric array on the lead channel no matter what. If you have the input gain maxed, the diodes are in full force, nothing you do with the output or lead master affects the amount of diode clipping in the circuit. The input gain can reduce their effect on the tone (less voltage going through them) but obviously gain in general goes down since that includes the tube stages too.

The rhythm clip also is not in the circuit at all when on the lead channel, pulling it has no effect. If it does, you might have a short or some other problem somewhere. I have a recently repaired+healthy 2555X right here and the rhythm clip does not make any audible change when pulling out or in while on the lead channel, even set up the way you described.

Not doubting you on the tone of course, it sounds great at lots of different settings.
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Ah, gonna disagree with you on the rhythm clip part because, when on the lead ch, if you pull the clip it clearly adds a bit of 'hair'/gain to the tone, and the vol drops Ala a Jose master.
So, with the 11 or so Jubilees I've owned, this has been a consistent thing with all of them over the years.

Maybe you don't notice it because the gain is set too low? Try diming the gain, then pull out the clip. Should be very noticeable.
 
Racerxrated said:
They're always in use in the Jubilee and 2210/05. The rhythm clip pulled, adds more gain but drops the vol some. Maybe pulling it sends

Ah, gonna disagree with you on the rhythm clip part because, when on the lead ch, if you pull the clip it clearly adds a bit of 'hair'/gain to the tone, and the vol drops Ala a Jose master.
So, with the 11 or so Jubilees I've owned, this has been a consistent thing with all of them over the years.

Maybe you don't notice it because the gain is set too low? Try diming the gain, then pull out the clip. Should be very noticeable.
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Yeah, I definitely noticed it making a difference using the rhythm clip on the lead channel. Instantly unpleasant.
 
Racerxrated said:
They're always in use in the Jubilee and 2210/05. The rhythm clip pulled, adds more gain but drops the vol some. Maybe pulling it sends

Ah, gonna disagree with you on the rhythm clip part because, when on the lead ch, if you pull the clip it clearly adds a bit of 'hair'/gain to the tone, and the vol drops Ala a Jose master.
So, with the 11 or so Jubilees I've owned, this has been a consistent thing with all of them over the years.

Maybe you don't notice it because the gain is set too low? Try diming the gain, then pull out the clip. Should be very noticeable.
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I’ve got the Slash model

Maybe it’s just perception but when I pull out the knob on the lead channel it seems to brighten and tighten and maybe even slightly reduce the gain. When it’s pushed in it seems to make it thicker like I’d typically use for a lead gain boost. Definitely looser.

Not sure about volume but I usually prefer the gain up pretty good but the knob out for a more raw and cutting sound. I’ve never known if I’m adding or taking out the diodes, ha ha.
 
Pulling the Rhythm clip definitely changes the tone when on the lead ch. It's very noticeable; with the gain up high anyway.
 
I remember reading about this somewhere. Even though the clean/rhythm channel's two diodes aren't part of the signal path for the Lead Channel, there's still some effect on tone or volume (of the lead channel) when rhythm clip is pulled. Perhaps they cause some change in voltage that affects the Lead channel?

Whatever is happening to the Lead Channel when rhythm clipping is engaged, it's not additional clipping from the two rhythm diodes. The lead channel has the same five diodes in the signal path regardless of the rhythm clip switch. If the sound of the Lead Channel changes when rhythm clipping is engaged, there's something else going on. I wonder if this is something that might not occur in all revisions.
 
https://www.marshallforum.com/threa...jubilee-rhythm-clip-switch.81223/post-1338126

"If the rhythm clip is engaged in LEAD mode the diodes of the rhythm clip circuit have no affect for that point in the circuit grounds the signal.
What it does do is introduce a minimized path of resistance for signal to ground in the LEAD mode at that point due to the engaged switch which reduces overall signal strength to the following gain stages.

Therefore you have a drop in gain with less compression in the following stages."
 
MusicIsLife said:
https://www.marshallforum.com/threa...jubilee-rhythm-clip-switch.81223/post-1338126

"If the rhythm clip is engaged in LEAD mode the diodes of the rhythm clip circuit have no affect for that point in the circuit grounds the signal.
What it does do is introduce a minimized path of resistance for signal to ground in the LEAD mode at that point due to the engaged switch which reduces overall signal strength to the following gain stages.

Therefore you have a drop in gain with less compression in the following stages."
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I respect many on that forum. However, the way the amp reacts is more like the 'opposite' of what he says in the last sentence. The gain INCREASES, so does the compression to my ear. The amp in lead mode, WITHOUT the pull clip pulled, is more open, and raw sounding vs with the clip pulled, where indeed the signal/vol drops, but perceived gain and compression increases.
Try it with the gain on 10, and let us know what you hear.
 
I've had the black tolex Slash model and the 2555x reissue, with matching 4x12.
They're not my fav.
I prefer a JMP or JCM 2203/2204, the Wizard MC50, or even Friedmans, like the Runt 50 I traded the 2555x half stack for.
 
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