Small Rock/Metal Show Pet Peeves

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ghosty999

ghosty999

Well-known member
On the whole, most small shows I see are great. Passionate folks showing us their art and entertaining us for pennies.

But... we all have pet peeves at small shows so what are yours? Here are a few of mine:

- If you can't actually sing harmonies (90% of people) then get rid of that mic stand infront of you. I don't want to stare through a mic stand the whole night just so you can go "UUUHHUHHUHUH OHHHH" out of tune. A strong single lead singer during a chorus is better than a dissonant choir.

- Bands with musicians who just stare down at their pedal boards and slowly walk back and forward sucks. I paid to be entertained, move around. Enjoy yourself and make the crowd feel part of it. I saw a show last week where the guy genuinely looked down the whole time like he was playing at home. Slowly walking 2 steps back, then 2 steps forward. At very very very most he slightly angled his guitar up during a solo. Yawn.

- When you adjust your amp tone, kneel down in-front of your amp to hear what the audience will hear. If adjust your tone with your ears 5 feet above the mic, you will just add fizz and kill the nights vibe. Great bands ruined by Tinnitus inducing high end fizz.

- Promoters doing nothing, then taking 70%. Asking bands to do the promotion, host the tickets, organize breakables, sharing drum kits etc.

- Bands who use "too much stuff". The 100 people you are playing to don't need to wait 30 mins for a change over because you want to use a huge drum rack and the worlds most complicated IEM system. It ends up with half the other bands shit plugged in on stage and eventually bands have no room to move on stage.

\m/
 
I used to go see local shows all the time. I mean, every weekend basically. I have not been to see a live concert in almost 5 years now, ignoring Covid of course and the number one reason is volume. I’m not sure if I just got older, or more careful, or I’m less motivated to go out now that I have a serious live-in girlfriend (I’ll admit about half the reason I was at the show was to meet women)… but sometimes it’s just too damn loud. I love a sound that fills the room and gets that thumping feeling in the chest. What I don’t like is when I’m literally yelling as loud as I can point blank into my buddy’s ears just to tell them I’m taking a piss or asking if they want another beer, and they still can’t hear me.

My second pet peeve is people who complain about a cover band playing an original, or the opposite - a regular band playing one or two covers. I am fine and entertained in both situations.
 
TotallyRadGuitars said:
I used to go see local shows all the time. I mean, every weekend basically. I have not been to see a live concert in almost 5 years now, ignoring Covid of course and the number one reason is volume. I’m not sure if I just got older, or more careful, or I’m less motivated to go out now that I have a serious live-in girlfriend (I’ll admit about half the reason I was at the show was to meet women)… but sometimes it’s just too damn loud. I love a sound that fills the room and gets that thumping feeling in the chest. What I don’t like is when I’m literally yelling as loud as I can point blank into my buddy’s ears just to tell them I’m taking a piss or asking if they want another beer, and they still can’t hear me.

My second pet peeve is people who complain about a cover band playing an original, or the opposite - a regular band playing one or two covers. I am fine and entertained in both situations.
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Good points. I agree on the volume, surprised I missed it! Often the sound guys ears will be fucked and he will compensate for what he is hearing. I find a good middle ground is to use foam ear defenders to take out the high end rasp which often keeps me up at night after shows with ear ringing.
 
denialist said:
Are any of them good, anywhere, ever? At least for smaller venue metal... I swear after 90% of shows I would have preferred if they skipped the PA altogether. Yes, we can hear the goddam bass drum already.
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One part of me gets annoyed at them, the other part of me remembers they are being paid like 70$ a night set up 3+ different bands on their own, whilst dealing with the egos/chaos of small bands playing club shows and broken equipment that the house refuses to upgrad. When things go wrong, everyone looks at you. Some techs/engineers would charge 70$ an hour for similar work!

Saying that... I still do agree that on average sound folks can't seem to get alot of basics right. I'm sick of "Kick and Bass" shows where I'm AMAZED that the sound guy can't hear how awful it sounds. Then you get the ones who have a shitty attitude and completely unhelpful. You try introduce yourself and offer assistance and they look at you like a piece of shit.
 
denialist said:
Are any of them good, anywhere, ever?
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There are a few, but they're unicorn-level rare.

I once played this small bar with my 70's/80's hardrock/metal coverband and they booked us together with a Limp Bizkit tribute. :unsure::cautious:
But the sound engineer that night was worth his weight in gold.
1) He managed to time-align the whole backline with the FOH speakers, creating a massive, punchy sound that wasn't too loud.
2) He managed to make my Invader 100+4x12 sound through my monitor exactly like my amp! Normally, most sound guys cut out all lows (I get it, less stage rumble, less mud to worry about), leaving you with a can-o-bees tone from the monitors. Not this guy. And he was quite young too, like early/mid 30's. (y)
 
  • Sound "engineers" who are barely qualified to set levels, let alone tune the entire ecosystem.
  • Stage volume that's too loud, so you're hearing that instead of the FOH mix.
  • Vocalists reading lyrics. You'd hope everyone in the band would know the material, but reading lyrics makes it more obvious to the audience.
 
Sounds men in my area are pretty good but metal is less common now. If a sound man or woman hasn't had time to build skills doing something besides mic'ing low volume country bands and classic rock cover groups they might need some friendly guidance. It happens. Most professional sound men I know are willing to hear out reasonable requests and can process new information if they haven't worked in a given musical setting before.

Some guys freak out if they have to deal with loud guitars but in Texas most of the sound men have been educated at enough shows to know how to deal with them. In some places it's just not so, per my experiences. Outside Texas there are a lot more control freak sound men. They exist here as well but usually let the reins loose if they perceive you know what you are doing.
 
It always makes me laugh when forumites say "my modeler tone is so good live, I just run into the PA and I'm good to go. Y'all are so dumb for using toob amps lolololol"

Devin said:
Shitty soundmen
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MusicIsLife said:
  • Sound "engineers" who are barely qualified to set levels, let alone tune the entire ecosystem.
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Speeddemon said:
There are a few, but they're unicorn-level rare.

I once played this small bar with my 70's/80's hardrock/metal coverband and they booked us together with a Limp Bizkit tribute. :unsure::cautious:
But the sound engineer that night was worth his weight in gold.
1) He managed to time-align the whole backline with the FOH speakers, creating a massive, punchy sound that wasn't too loud.
2) He managed to make my Invader 100+4x12 sound through my monitor exactly like my amp! Normally, most sound guys cut out all lows (I get it, less stage rumble, less mud to worry about), leaving you with a can-o-bees tone from the monitors. Not this guy. And he was quite young too, like early/mid 30's. (y)
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denialist said:
Are any of them good, anywhere, ever? At least for smaller venue metal... I swear after 90% of shows I would have preferred if they skipped the PA altogether. Yes, we can hear the goddam bass drum already.
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Survey says, that's 3 to 1 - local sound guys couldn't handle an acoustic singer songwriter, let alone a metal band

And @denialist is correct, they always obsess over the god damn kick drum and basically half ass EVERYTHING ELSE in the mix
 
I’m glad I’m not the only one who mentioned volume, I was hesitant to even say it out of fear of being a party pooper haha.

I went to see Bruce Springsteen at Amway in FL and the PA was so fucking loud especially with the shrill frequencies of his tele leads we basically spent the whole concert with our fingers in our ears. And not just us, our whole section on the second level that was in front of one of those speakers hanging from the ceiling was basically cleared out before the halfway point of the show. That’s a lot bigger than a small gig obviously but my point is that the sound guy problems seem to plague even some of the biggest professionals in the business sadly.
 
TotallyRadGuitars said:
I’m glad I’m not the only one who mentioned volume, I was hesitant to even say it out of fear of being a party pooper haha.

I went to see Bruce Springsteen at Amway in FL and the PA was so fucking loud especially with the shrill frequencies of his tele leads we basically spent the whole concert with our fingers in our ears. And not just us, our whole section on the second level that was in front of one of those speakers hanging from the ceiling was basically cleared out before the halfway point of the show. That’s a lot bigger than a small gig obviously but my point is that the sound guy problems seem to plague even some of the biggest professionals in the business sadly.
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I feel like the line arrays are way harsher sounding than the old "stacks of speakers" at the side of stage ever were. It seems line arrays are really popular now. Even a couple clubs I play are using them vs the old style. Seems to be real common outdoors when dB is restricted. I just like the old stacks better. Warm and rich vs harsh and airy line array.
 
DanTravis62 said:
It always makes me laugh when forumites say "my modeler tone is so good live, I just run into the PA and I'm good to go. Y'all are so dumb for using toob amps lolololol"
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I've done 7 years with BIG valve amps on stage
Then 7 years with a Fractal to FOH (with small 2x12 amp on stage for air)

On average, I had alot more issues with the sound guys and valve amps. Firstly the sound guy would try use the house SM57 rather than my mic which I used to get the tone at home. Since the stages where small, the valve amps would be firing audio directly into the vocal mics. So it would be a battle of feedback and a total washy mess on stage as the volume increased. Secondly the mic would get bumped by the other bands or they'd move the amp completely. Also I ran in stereo, so most sound guys would not do the phase correctly. I couldn't tap into the benifit of using a tube rig like the "feel" or "response" because I couldn't hear any detail.

Now I hand a single XLR to the sound guy. Removing around 10+ variables that I just can't be bothered with anymore.

Tone wise... I couldn't tell you the difference. Fans didn't notice the switch. So the only person I'd be impressing by lugging 150kg of kit into a 100 person venue... would be me.
 
VonBonfire said:
I feel like the line arrays are way harsher sounding than the old "stacks of speakers" at the side of stage ever were. It seems line arrays are really popular now. Even a couple clubs I play are using them vs the old style. Seems to be real common outdoors when dB is restricted. I just like the old stacks better. Warm and rich vs harsh and airy line array.
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THIS is an interesting take! And very true. A venue near me spent 1 million on acoustics, only to then throw in lines of Arrays and those huge subs. Tinny top end and loads of sub bass. It's likely set up for DJ/dance music first and foremost.
 
ghosty999 said:
THIS is an interesting take! And very true. A venue near me spent 1 million on acoustics, only to then throw in lines of Arrays and those huge subs. Tinny top end and loads of sub bass. It's likely set up for DJ/dance music first and foremost.
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They claim line arrays offer better sound experience for everyone in the venue vs just those at the sweet spot of the speaker stacks. They still sound harsh and lack the same beefy punch to my ears. I would compare it to a cab in contact with a great wood stage vs one up in the air on a chair. It's obvious which one will sound richer and fuller.
 
The other singer in my band uses lyrics and when he gets uncomfortable, reverts to reading which gets him off time, almost as if he has never heard the song; I don’t get it. Sadly his voice is immense and I need him but I have to temper what he does on stage.

I hate bad stage sound as it makes me think the room sound is bad which it’s usually not. I should record both and compare that… totally different but the problem is that I start trying to change sound based on what I hear on stage…. Mistake! Good on stage monitors are key and it would behoove the sound guy to come on stage and listen as well.
 
Bands that don't understand the change over times. Bands that Bring 2 Full Stacks for 1 Guitar Player & Then stand around & watch as he struggles to move all that gear by himself, Again, Change over times.
 
ghosty999 said:
I've done 7 years with BIG valve amps on stage
Then 7 years with a Fractal to FOH (with small 2x12 amp on stage for air)

On average, I had alot more issues with the sound guys and valve amps. Firstly the sound guy would try use the house SM57 rather than my mic which I used to get the tone at home. Since the stages where small, the valve amps would be firing audio directly into the vocal mics. So it would be a battle of feedback and a total washy mess on stage as the volume increased. Secondly the mic would get bumped by the other bands or they'd move the amp completely. Also I ran in stereo, so most sound guys would not do the phase correctly. I couldn't tap into the benifit of using a tube rig like the "feel" or "response" because I couldn't hear any detail.

Now I hand a single XLR to the sound guy. Removing around 10+ variables that I just can't be bothered with anymore.

Tone wise... I couldn't tell you the difference. Fans didn't notice the switch. So the only person I'd be impressing by lugging 150kg of kit into a 100 person venue... would be me.
Click to expand...

That's great you have great sound guys 🤷

It seems most of us do not.
 
When the vocalist barks out, "I want to see a circle pit for this one" to the 5 people standing in an otherwise empty room.
 
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