So at TGP Ceriatone has joined the ranks of Dumble.

[theNoseBleedKid]

So basically your argument is that because he uses the Treainwreck name, in conjunction with his own, and the aknowledgment of the fact it is a clone he's in the wrong??

So the use of NAME, dictates your position, thus it IS an issue of vocabulary, to some degree.

With all due respect, it's already been explained multiple times in this thread so I do not think you're going to get it.

I guess not

 

[ampkits]

Nik
Yes fraud is a strong word. But we both know well enough that when somebody buys an amp with a Wreck logo on it after a few changing hands it'll be not so clear anymore whether it is or isn't a wreck. And as you yourselfsay it was simply wrong.
Also one side note on all the TGP discussions, here's what the sad part is the amount of folks that believe it IS their "right" to have a Wreck logo or a Fender logo on a clone is unreal. And simply put when grown men act liek spoiled chuildren somebody has to be the responsible guy.
FWIW, I know of your reputation from a few friends and you enjoy a great rep as a builder, so doing the right thing in the end will benefit you I believe. If for nothing else than guys like me not bitching.

Ed,

Thanks for the reply.

Anyone who buys any amp for USD 25K and not know about it is asking for trouble.
Esp. for something as clear as the logo, of which no real TWs were made with.
Not saying it was the right thing to do, it was wrong.
But to say that someone might mistaken it for the real deal, it's a bit weak.

The practice has stopped for quite some time, ie shipped with dragon logos instead of TW.

To say that just last week, someone received the amp with the TW plate, hmmm... begs the question. I will check though. I have asked for the name of client who supposedly attested to this from TGP.

As far as I know, its been 90 amps ago the that the last plate with TW was shipped. Not sure, could have been one with lots of mods.

Were this a lie, imagine the hypocrisy. Defamation also opens up to threat of litigation. But they dont seem to be so concerned, eh?

And, in the tradional local tradition, to atone for my sin, I have to deflower 7 virgins. I should have done 2 by Monday.

But, in the US customs, it seems harder to do atonement.

Thanks!

Nik

PS - if anybody sees this, and cant tell which is serious, which is tongue in cheek, I say...go down sit tight.

 

[JamesPeters]

Anyone who buys any amp for USD 25K and not know about it is asking for trouble.
Esp. for something as clear as the logo, of which no real TWs were made with.

I personally know 3 people who paid less than $2000 (one of them, less than $1500) for real Trainwreck amps, directly from Ken Fischer. And as to what the used market will hold for the value of Trainwreck amps is anyone's guess depending on many factors.

Also, if Ken Fischer's family (or a company they sell the Trainwreck name or licensing rights to) decides to start a new line of amps under the Trainwreck name, what's to say that the logo won't be used on them.

Blaming people for not recognizing a fake (call it what you will) isn't fair. It also glosses over the point of trademark violation.

I'm glad you stopped using the Trainwreck logo. Just so you know: I didn't complain to a moderator of the Gear Page or even advocate that people should stop discussing the specific subject of your using the logos. I don't think I even posted on any threads there concerning the subject, or about you at all. I'm only posting about it here because this is a more private forum in practice, with much fewer members than HC or TGP (the discussion here is a lot less likely to get "out of control" to the point of requiring serious measures by the moderators, and most of us know one another). And I'm only discussing the issue of trademark violation, what it means to the companies involved. I don't have anything against your business in general or you personally.

The reason I've been so vocal on this thread is that I was trying to get a very simple point across which people seemed to choose to ignore, or excuse. (And, I had some time off with nothing better to do, evidently).

-James

 

[Jeff Hilligan]

I cant take James serious with the red skin and long locks!

 

[JamesPeters]

I cant take James serious with the red skin and long locks!

You'll take me even less seriously after you read this:

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/42827

 

[j666]

I cant take James serious with the red skin and long locks!

You'll take me even less seriously after you read this:

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/42827

that thing roolz! i read that on another forum...from...you?

 

[Bob Savage]

That's ridiculous.

+1 or +2 is plenty ample.

Plenty ample is redundant. Ample would be sufficient.

 

[Bob Savage]

That's ridiculous.
+1 or +2 is plenty ample.

Saying "ample" is ample, for that matter. "Plenty ample" is redundant redundant.

DOH! Beat me to it...

 

[Meathead]

That's ridiculous.
+1 or +2 is plenty ample.

Saying "ample" is ample, for that matter. "Plenty ample" is redundant redundant.

Plenty ample is redundant. Ample would be sufficient.

OK! Alright already!

The Grammar Hammers!

Plenty ample = more than ample ....I'm just trying to make a point here.

 

[JamesPeters]

OK! Alright already!

The Grammar Hammers!

Plenty ample = more than ample ....I'm just trying to make a point here.

I can only guess that point is to show us your lack of knowledge of the English language.

Please, don't ever insult the intelligence of a Corleone, capisce?

I understand...except for the word "capisce". That's a kind of spice, right?

 

[Meathead]

OK! Alright already!

The Grammar Hammers!

Plenty ample = more than ample ....I'm just trying to make a point here.

I can only guess that point is to show us your lack of knowledge of the English language.

Classic overuse using the word 'of'

 

[JamesPeters]

Classic overuse using the word 'of'

Classic overuse of the word "use". Also, classic underuse of punctuation.

 

[Meathead]

Classic overuse using the word 'of'

Classic overuse of the word "use". Also, classic underuse of punctuation.

Classic dragging a topic on and on and on...

 

[JamesPeters]

Classic dragging a topic on and on and on...

Classic passing the blame.

 

[Meathead]

Classic overuse of the word "use". Also, classic underuse of punctuation.

Classic dragging a topic on and on and on...

Classic passing the blame.[/quote]
Classic misuse of the quote function.

 

[ampkits]

Anyone who buys any amp for USD 25K and not know about it is asking for trouble.
Esp. for something as clear as the logo, of which no real TWs were made with.

I personally know 3 people who paid less than $2000 (one of them, less than $1500) for real Trainwreck amps, directly from Ken Fischer. And as to what the used market will hold for the value of Trainwreck amps is anyone's guess depending on many factors.

Also, if Ken Fischer's family (or a company they sell the Trainwreck name or licensing rights to) decides to start a new line of amps under the Trainwreck name, what's to say that the logo won't be used on them.

Blaming people for not recognizing a fake (call it what you will) isn't fair. It also glosses over the point of trademark violation.

I'm glad you stopped using the Trainwreck logo. Just so you know: I didn't complain to a moderator of the Gear Page or even advocate that people should stop discussing the specific subject of your using the logos. I don't think I even posted on any threads there concerning the subject, or about you at all. I'm only posting about it here because this is a more private forum in practice, with much fewer members than HC or TGP (the discussion here is a lot less likely to get "out of control" to the point of requiring serious measures by the moderators, and most of us know one another). And I'm only discussing the issue of trademark violation, what it means to the companies involved. I don't have anything against your business in general or you personally.

The reason I've been so vocal on this thread is that I was trying to get a very simple point across which people seemed to choose to ignore, or excuse. (And, I had some time off with nothing better to do, evidently).

-James

James,

Cool.

I really have no qualms if you, or others, point out my mistakes. Really.

And, if people want to talk if our amps dont do it for them, thats fine as well. Only through criticism that I can grow.

I am glad the issue was pointed out. Now I have gotten rid of the logos (been a while already), and will relook at how to do things.

However, the issue was something else. I wont harp over it anymore, but I think you saw what happened over there.

If they can have a ball with it, then so can I. I dont take things personally, nor I am the type easily perturbed. So that makes some people angrier, i guess.

Suffice to say, they wont stop till i stop making amps, I am sure. I guess that wont happen.

In business, there's competition. I can understand what comes with that.

Yes, I admit it again that it was the wrong thing to do. For me to think it was enough was foolish, they want the extra 5 virgins .

So, to me, the case is closed. I am still having some good time with some of em, thats for my entertainment.Heh..

Again, I must stress - if you see something wrong, then do point it out. There should be no fear, nor favoritism. At the same time, I guess, a multilateral approach would be better. It's harder nowadays, but generally, "people are good".

Thanks!

Nik

 

[JamesPeters]

James,

Cool.

I really have no qualms if you, or others, point out my mistakes. Really.

And, if people want to talk if our amps dont do it for them, thats fine as well. Only through criticism that I can grow.

I am glad the issue was pointed out. Now I have gotten rid of the logos (been a while already), and will relook at how to do things.

However, the issue was something else. I wont harp over it anymore, but I think you saw what happened over there.

If they can have a ball with it, then so can I. I dont take things personally, nor I am the type easily perturbed. So that makes some people angrier, i guess.

Suffice to say, they wont stop till i stop making amps, I am sure. I guess that wont happen.

In business, there's competition. I can understand what comes with that.

Yes, I admit it again that it was the wrong thing to do. For me to think it was enough was foolish, they want the extra 5 virgins .

So, to me, the case is closed. I am still having some good time with some of em, thats for my entertainment.Heh..

Again, I must stress - if you see something wrong, then do point it out. There should be no fear, nor favoritism. At the same time, I guess, a multilateral approach would be better. It's harder nowadays, but generally, "people are good".

Thanks!

Nik

Nik,

I didn't see the issue as being anything else. To me, it started and ended with your using the Trainwreck logo (which you evidently stopped doing a while ago, by the time I had heard of it actually). So if the people on the Gear Page forums have some other issue with you, I don't know what that is; I don't see a problem. Perhaps I missed a specific thread in which some people voiced certain "concerns", a thread which was deleted or moved by the time I noticed this particular discussion. Perhaps some others who are in the business of cloning classic amp designs who have issues with you. In any case, I'm unaware of anything else people might have as "ammunition" against you.

If you're referring to someone claiming you're still using Trainwreck logos (but providing no evidence to support that claim), I did notice that and found it highly suspicious. However I can only guess what motivation they had for saying such a thing. Sometimes people on the forums will say anything they can to try to win an argument irrespective of the consequences; this might be one of those cases. (As a favorite band of mine said in one particular song, "You're wrong but you're louder than me, so you win but you're still wrong". That lyric is hard to forget when you're on the forums... ) At least you didn't draw any undue attention towards yourself by arguing with that person; asking for evidence of that claim was all you could've done. As for the argument which escalated to the point of insanity, that's what happens when people won't back down to concede a point; there's nothing you can do about that either. So try to not worry about it.

And I guess the thought of "try to not worry about it" is an important bit of advice, if I have any to give, about being on the forums. Be honest, run your business fairly, and you shouldn't have to make any excuses for what you do, irrespective of what people on the forums might say.

Good luck, Nik.

-James