So at TGP Ceriatone has joined the ranks of Dumble.

[duesentrieb]

How much is an original Trainwreck?

I'm guessing about $28,000 more now than if you bought it new, from Ken.

 

[Digital Jams]

How much is an original Trainwreck?

10-12 Herberts

 

[Telephant]

Well, I have no qualms with what TGP does, because it's a private forum. If he wants to ban Ceriatone discussion for whatever reason, that's his business.

But the double standards amongst the people who make up the forum abound, which can be pretty annoying.

Yeah, selling another companies logo can certainly be called 'crossing the line', but the line is very wide and very gray, IMO. And Ceriatone is certainly not the first person/company to sell a clone instrument with another company's logo on it, or to sell it logo-less with a *wink wink nudge nudge* "you might be able to find a logo on ebay" kind of hint. How many guitars have been sold or advertised on TGP with the headstock cropped out of the picture, with no one complaining??

Exactly. How many GMW's have the Strat and LP headstocks?

Trainwrecks are not being made anymore and the the used ones go for $20,000. So if they're not made anymore, how exactly does selling the faceplate take money out of the Fischers pockets?

 

[Digital Jams]

Well, I have no qualms with what TGP does, because it's a private forum. If he wants to ban Ceriatone discussion for whatever reason, that's his business.

But the double standards amongst the people who make up the forum abound, which can be pretty annoying.

Yeah, selling another companies logo can certainly be called 'crossing the line', but the line is very wide and very gray, IMO. And Ceriatone is certainly not the first person/company to sell a clone instrument with another company's logo on it, or to sell it logo-less with a *wink wink nudge nudge* "you might be able to find a logo on ebay" kind of hint. How many guitars have been sold or advertised on TGP with the headstock cropped out of the picture, with no one complaining??

Exactly. How many GMW's have the Strat and LP headstocks?

Trainwrecks are not being made anymore and the the used ones go for $20,000. So if they're not made anymore, how exactly does selling the faceplate take money out of the Fischers pockets?

Dude...there is a exact copy of a Fender Frankie in the spam forum....I tell beaver nutz Peterson and I was told to stop stirring the pot

He is listening to other builders....bank it.

 

[Craggin]

How much is an original Trainwreck?

I'm guessing about $28,000 more now than if you bought it new, from Ken.

 

[Telephant]

So if they're not made anymore, how exactly does selling the faceplate take money out of the Fischers pockets?

Someone explain this to me.

if I build a Marshall clone, buy a Marshall logo and stick it on, should we be pissed at the guy who sold me the knock off Marshall logo?

 

[Craggin]

...He is listening to other builders....bank it.

Maybe, maybe not...I honestly don't know. One thing I have found in the past (when dealing with Scott or Brian) is that the delivery (and method) has an awful lot of bearing on the outcome. From reading that thread, a lot of jackasses showed their true colors and probably rubbed Brian and Scott the wrong way. I'll speculate and say that if you had sent a PM to one of them before that thread spiraled out of control, that Frankenstrat auction would've been pulled. I've seen that happen a bunch of times.

 

[Digital Jams]

So if they're not made anymore, how exactly does selling the faceplate take money out of the Fischers pockets?

Someone explain this to me.

if I build a Marshall clone, buy a Marshall logo and stick it on, should we be pissed at the guy who sold me the knock off Marshall logo?

Oh Metro was pulled into the scrap, of course if that is your way to make money....building Metro kits to pass them off as used MArshall 1959HW then you are a dope

 

[Digital Jams]

...He is listening to other builders....bank it.

Maybe, maybe not...I honestly don't know. One thing I have found in the past (when dealing with Scott or Brian) is that the delivery (and method) has an awful lot of bearing on the outcome. From reading that thread, a lot of jackasses showed their true colors and probably rubbed Brian and Scott the wrong way. I'll speculate and say that if you had sent a PM to one of them before that thread spiraled out of control, that Frankenstrat auction would've been pulled. I've seen that happen a bunch of times.

Cannot deny your logic, it does make sense.

 

[Craggin]

So if they're not made anymore, how exactly does selling the faceplate take money out of the Fischers pockets?

[/quote]


I've got no axe to grind in this fight. In fact, I remember the thread that kind of started this whole shitstorm...when the owner of a real Trainwreck posted clips of that vs. the Ceriatone. That thread started out pretty decent...and a few people just couldn't resist themselves and had to be tools.

As for your question...the thing that bothers me most, is that when you're a builder (of anything) and spent years developing something, spending large sums of money getting it right, take all kinds of financial risks to bring it to market, and create something different...that is worth something. You've taken all the risk. When someone copies that technology, they're copying something that was already proven successful...i.e., they have less at risk. Think about what an amp is...basically resistors and caps...not a whole lot of cost (in the grand scheme of things...relative to other goods), but the sweat equity and intellectual property of the original designer deserves to be compensated for paving the way. IMHO, that is why there is a "right" way of cloning/copying, and a wrong way. Again, I've got no axe to grind here...this is completely my own opinion on the matter.

 

[Craggin]

...He is listening to other builders....bank it.

Maybe, maybe not...I honestly don't know. One thing I have found in the past (when dealing with Scott or Brian) is that the delivery (and method) has an awful lot of bearing on the outcome. From reading that thread, a lot of jackasses showed their true colors and probably rubbed Brian and Scott the wrong way. I'll speculate and say that if you had sent a PM to one of them before that thread spiraled out of control, that Frankenstrat auction would've been pulled. I've seen that happen a bunch of times.

Cannot deny your logic, it does make sense.

Thanks. From reading that whole thread, it appears to me that Scott and Brian just kind of showed that they're human and get sick and tired once in a while. Again, I can only speak from personal experience...but I've had disagreements with both of them in the past...I sent them emails (mainly because I REALLY disagreed with them) instead of throwing gas on a thread already flaming out of control. Truthfully, they were very cool about it. (Wrong, but cool. )

 

[degenaro]

Well, I have no qualms with what TGP does, because it's a private forum. If he wants to ban Ceriatone discussion for whatever reason, that's his business.

But the double standards amongst the people who make up the forum abound, which can be pretty annoying.

Yeah, selling another companies logo can certainly be called 'crossing the line', but the line is very wide and very gray, IMO. And Ceriatone is certainly not the first person/company to sell a clone instrument with another company's logo on it, or to sell it logo-less with a *wink wink nudge nudge* "you might be able to find a logo on ebay" kind of hint. How many guitars have been sold or advertised on TGP with the headstock cropped out of the picture, with no one complaining??

Exactly. How many GMW's have the Strat and LP headstocks?

Trainwrecks are not being made anymore and the the used ones go for $20,000. So if they're not made anymore, how exactly does selling the faceplate take money out of the Fischers pockets?

Shea, it's a matter of right or wrong, how many guys here get bent out of shape for Puff Daddy having used sampled of Zep's Kashmir, end those were cleared, paid uses. The take Zep and see that they had been sued by Willie Dixon for uncredited use of his stuff. Right and wrong buddy, and yes there's a time when we have to make a decision of what's more important the quick "I don't care, I want it" or to do the right thing, Now this whole shit can be taken to whole new levels, but FWIW, selling any product you need to rip some one else's intelectual property or real property for that matetr without credit is where I draw the line. Dig?

 

[degenaro]

So if they're not made anymore, how exactly does selling the faceplate take money out of the Fischers pockets?

Someone explain this to me.

if I build a Marshall clone, buy a Marshall logo and stick it on, should we be pissed at the guy who sold me the knock off Marshall logo?

No, but I'd sure as fuck be pissed st you if you sold it to a guy that sold it to a guy that endeed up thining it was a Marshall. That shit is whack.

 

[* velcro-fly *]

So if they're not made anymore, how exactly does selling the faceplate take money out of the Fischers pockets?

Someone explain this to me.

if I build a Marshall clone, buy a Marshall logo and stick it on, should we be pissed at the guy who sold me the knock off Marshall logo?

No, but we reserve the right to tell you that it's ghey to put a logo of something that it's not on the item not actually manufactured by Marshall....

 

[Telephant]

So if they're not made anymore, how exactly does selling the faceplate take money out of the Fischers pockets?

Someone explain this to me.

if I build a Marshall clone, buy a Marshall logo and stick it on, should we be pissed at the guy who sold me the knock off Marshall logo?

No.

Exactly.

 

[Telephant]

Well, I have no qualms with what TGP does, because it's a private forum. If he wants to ban Ceriatone discussion for whatever reason, that's his business.

But the double standards amongst the people who make up the forum abound, which can be pretty annoying.

Yeah, selling another companies logo can certainly be called 'crossing the line', but the line is very wide and very gray, IMO. And Ceriatone is certainly not the first person/company to sell a clone instrument with another company's logo on it, or to sell it logo-less with a *wink wink nudge nudge* "you might be able to find a logo on ebay" kind of hint. How many guitars have been sold or advertised on TGP with the headstock cropped out of the picture, with no one complaining??

Exactly. How many GMW's have the Strat and LP headstocks?

Trainwrecks are not being made anymore and the the used ones go for $20,000. So if they're not made anymore, how exactly does selling the faceplate take money out of the Fischers pockets?

Shea, it's a matter of right or wrong, how many guys here get bent out of shape for Puff Daddy having used sampled of Zep's Kashmir, end those were cleared, paid uses. The take Zep and see that they had been sued by Willie Dixon for uncredited use of his stuff. Right and wrong buddy, and yes there's a time when we have to make a decision of what's more important the quick "I don't care, I want it" or to do the right thing, Now this whole shit can be taken to whole new levels, but FWIW, selling any product you need to rip some one else's intelectual property or real property for that matetr without credit is where I draw the line. Dig?

Ken provided a product. He died and that product was no longer available new, and those that were on the used market skyrocketed.

Ceriatone provides customers with a clone of that product that was previously unavailable to them.

So some tool wants to put a Trainwreck logo on his clone of a Trainwreck amp... I really dont see whats wrong with that. It is a clone of a Trainwreck afterall.

Hell Sgt Thump just bought a K-Line Strat and ordered a Fender decal. How come noone has a problem with that?

 

[degenaro]

Ken provided a product. He died and that product was no longer available new, and those that were on the used market skyrocketed.

Ceriatone provides customers with a clone of that product that was previously unavailable to them.

So some tool wants to put a Trainwreck logo on his clone of a Trainwreck amp... I really dont see whats wrong with that. It is a clone of a Trainwreck afterall.

Hell Sgt Thump just bought a K-Line Strat and ordered a Fender decal. How come noone has a problem with that?

I do have a problem with ant fakery, but that's a different story.

 

[* velcro-fly *]

So some tool wants to put a Trainwreck logo on his clone of a Trainwreck amp... I really dont see whats wrong with that. It is a clone of a Trainwreck afterall.

Hell Sgt Thump just bought a K-Line Strat and ordered a Fender decal. How come noone has a problem with that?

Well, regarding the K-Line and Nash guitars - and this is not intended to bash Thump - anybody that spends upwards of $1400 - 1500 on a guitar assembled by a guy who gets parts from Allparts, with said guy claiming to be a builder, needs a, ah....never mind. As far as Thump putting a Fender logo on that guitar,the difference is that the parts are actually licensed by Fender.

 

[JamesPeters]

Fischer's surviving relatives (or anyone he willed the Trainwreck company to) have the right to use the Trainwreck name/logo. No one else does, for commercial uses at least, unless they license another company to do so (such as Komet). It's that simple.

Don't like paying $28000 for a Trainwreck? Don't do it. As far as I know, Ken never charged that for the amps in the first place, so arguing about that price after his death is just a lame argument if not outright disrespectful. Anyway there are amps out there with similar designs by several companies which cost a lot less...including the one Nik provides. However, if one of those companies uses the Trainwreck logo, that is where the line is very clearly drawn.

Guitars with "strat headstocks"...ok...have those GMW's been sold with "Fender Stratocaster" labelled on them? No, then it's a different story. If you want to talk about the strat shape being used, you can discuss that with Fender. I'd bet they'd be happy to let you use it as long as you paid a small royalty fee for each guitar sold with that shape.

The idea of an end user of an amp kit putting a logo on it himself instead of buying it along with the kit (or an assembled version of that kit with a logo on it) is also quite different.

You know where the line is, you know what we're talking about, so why all the "but what if..." arguments?

It's amazing how some of you guys get so bent out of shape when another forumite you know does something "uncool" when it doesn't even involve your livelihood, to the point of your rallying everyone in a thread against that person. I've seen witch hunts on the forums for years for the most insignificant reasons, as little as two days ago, on this forum even. Yet in this case, when someone blatantly violates a small amp company's trademark, let's defend that action because we all want cheap amps don't we. We want it cheap and we want it now! To hell with the consequences! If that's the mindset you have, why are you even here; HC welcomes that kind of mentality 24/7/365. And while you're at it, go and ask Fab to be the moderator.

 

[Digital Jams]

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww...now why would someone want a Fender sticker on their GMW

That is just not right