Speaking of Rig Rundowns that Suck....

Spaceboy said:
Nah, ‘good enough’ is all that’s needed. You won’t see it the same way if you don’t tour, but carrying and hauling the shit, on top of potential theft, loss, damage to gear that is an investment are major hurdles. The sound guy is absolutely going to fuck up your preciously crafted tone anyway, and these days the barrier of entry to having decent tone is much lower than it used to be. There’s no reason to lug a 6k+ rig around the country when you can get reasonably close for 2k. Your audience doesn’t know shit about tone, and aren’t actually going to hear you anyway. You have the filter of mics, room acoustics, PA, soundboard processing, etc, which each piece of that puzzle has a larger impact on the final tone than your amp, pickups, even your speakers.

The hunt for tone and gear is an endeavor of personal satisfaction, the vast majority of music listeners will not think twice about it. If you want to show off the gear we all love, the most meaningful place to do that is going to be on recording. If it’s not being recorded, tone doesn’t mean a damn thing outside of the moment a sound enters a players ears in the moment, in a room. That satisfaction and inspiration is important, but it’s a singular moment in time and place that cannot be captured without the process of capturing changing the sound.

So, play the gear that inspires you, but “good enough” is totally a viable excuse for why actual working musicians are not utilizing the most top of the line or complicated rigs.

Not to mention, many of our favorite tones were crafted due to inherent limitations, musicians making due with what was accessible to them, and being creative with it.
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I started my journey working with Mesa, doing 2 albums and touring coast to coast. I had Mark Snyder build a lot of my first rig. That was a million years ago starting in 1992 and was short lived, but that had ZERO effect on a good enough rig. If you tour seriously... you most likely have a road crew..etc.. The rest are just excuses about the audience doesnt care and the sound guy will mess it all up..... I remember back then all it took was a $20 to whoever was running sound to make sure the levels were at least "audible". Besides, all your gigs are recorded today thanks to everyone taking vids at the gigs.

There are players that bring real 57's and play them religiously. Doesnt have to be a real 57, but with the good enough attitude then why bother gigging at all? Soundman sucks, you won hear yer sound...audience doesnt care, shit getting stolen, different acoustics for each room...etc..
I have never said you need tons of equipment or expensive or .?? to have a killer rig. Just use something that to you, the player, is better than "Good Enough". I completely agree about making due with what guys have, but they took those things and made them much better than good enough.
 
Devin said:
I'm one of those "it sounds good enough" dudes these days.....25+ years of playing guitar and toane chasing has led me to believe that while a lot of the super high end unobtainium stuff is really good, it's not a big enough difference from the bog standard stuff to be worth thousands of dollars to me.
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I completely agree with this. Its nuts to spend 95 percent of a rig budget on something that will only give you a 10 percent return on tone. Remember Rockstah? He made that little kidney bean Pod sound unreal!! Mike Slamer used a stock Boogie on just about everything and he was always about that thing inspiring him every time he plugged it in. Nothing wrong with basic rigs if it gives ya that familiar smile when ya hit that first chord.
 
RevDrucifer said:
For me, tone begins and ends at "Does this get the point across?" As much as I absolutely love everything about guitars and gear, the songs are still the end goal for me and because of that, I can't really be picky. Sometimes ya gotta murder what you love when writing music and the same goes for mixing.

And it doesn't matter what I play through, it all sounds like me. I used to flip back and forth between a Dual Rec, Mark IV or a 5150, never figuring out which one I preferred because ultimately I had no preference, they all sounded fucking great doing what I did with them. There are subtleties different to each amp I might prefer more/less one day than the other, I know at one point with every damn amp I've ever owned I've had a "Ahhhh yeah, that's fucking IT right there!" period and then I didn't......but "fucking IT right there" never leaves the amp, I was just getting caught up in "Well....maybe this does that better..."

It's like porn; ya never want to finish on the vid you're on in case the next one is better. But giving myself an intent/goal in the form of the final product (song), that absolutely helps narrow the search parameters considerably. Getting an amp for the band I'm putting together, I knew I needed it to chug. Snagged the 5153 for cheap, it chugs, has 3 channels, done! Everything else I'll do with my hands.

And that's not even getting into the absolute fucking uselessness of finding ONE specific tone that you expect to project into an audience night after night and being so precious about it that you've formed a complex or identity over THAT single tone. One of my former guitarist did this; would only play with this Dual Rec cranked to shit and back with specific settings, no matter where we were or how bad it sounded in the room/recording/band.

If you're just jammin' out in your home or with buddies and it's not a 'serious' band effort where you need to be part of the equation and not the focus, have at it. Go fucking crazy finding it. Let it consume you, it'll keep you active and probably creative.
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I know you remember back in the days of HRI. It was a great place to learn about wiring, and how one affects the other..etc. You're absolutely right about projecting one single tone to the audience night after night. But can you imagine if everything available today was available back then? Too many people equte great sounding rigs with refridge size racks and that doesnt have to be in todays world. If Jamming at home and pluggin into whatever makes ya happy or inspires ya then thats fuckin awesome!! LOL
 
Spaceboy said:
This is absolutely not true these days
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I said "most likely" have a crew. I am just going by my buddies who tour professionally and do have crews. I'm sure there are tons of bands that are touring independently that have no crew. Thats fine... with todays options you should be able to totally find something manageable that you can turn into an awesome rig. I wish it were that way years ago.
 
phil b said:
I know you remember back in the days of HRI. It was a great place to learn about wiring, and how one affects the other..etc. You're absolutely right about projecting one single tone to the audience night after night. But can you imagine if everything available today was available back then? Too many people equte great sounding rigs with refridge size racks and that doesnt have to be in todays world. If Jamming at home and pluggin into whatever makes ya happy or inspires ya then thats fuckin awesome!! LOL
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Hahahahah actually, I hadn't even thought about the advancements made since HRI's been done with. I still keep in touch with a lot of those guys, very few are using racks these days and it's even funnier seeing some of them have gone onto Fractal units. Shit, that reminds me, Ou offered me his expanded RS10 that I want just for a 'museum' piece, I need to hit him up about that.

I suppose part of it for me as well is I've got enough toys that I'm always in the ballpark of where I want to be, regardless of which guitar or tone I'm going for. I just plugged my G-Force in for the first time since I've had my AxeFX and I completely forgot what I used to do to the delays to get them where I wanted them and now with the Fractal stuff I'm literally clicking a button and fine tuning it takes seconds. I'm never fighting to find a tone I need and I'm not trying to get everything from a single source. Whether that's real amps or a Fractal unit.
 
My impression when I hear those comments "it's close enough or it's good enough" is that they are just taking the easy way out of explaining why they switched to some modeler. Meaning, they probably love their sound but don't want to get into defending it vs the real thing. It's just an easy way out of explain their choices. I may be wrong, but when I watch rig rundowns and hear them say that, it's the impression I get.
 
I understand both sides of this argument but for me, I'm more concerned with gear theft. A friend of mine had his 80's Jose modded JCM800 stolen and never got it back. It sucks you have to keep a hawks eye on stuff like that when you should be able to enjoy yourself and roam around/engage with your friends and fans. I'll sacrifice and tone capture my amps on a modeler.
 
stratjacket said:
My impression when I hear those comments "it's close enough or it's good enough" is that they are just taking the easy way out of explaining why they switched to some modeler. Meaning, they probably love their sound but don't want to get into defending it vs the real thing. It's just an easy way out of explain their choices. I may be wrong, but when I watch rig rundowns and hear them say that, it's the impression I get.
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Agreed and was sorta my point above. Don't use the audience as the excuse because afterall, the players themselves can't be getting up there and finding satisfaction with shit tone because the audience doesn't know the difference. IDK, may be some guys can do that these days I just knew that if my sound sucked when I gigged constantly, it was gonna be long night.

If you dig digital modelers, and it can sound like you want without having to cart around tube amps and saves money in the process just say that.
 
RevDrucifer said:
Hahahahah actually, I hadn't even thought about the advancements made since HRI's been done with. I still keep in touch with a lot of those guys, very few are using racks these days and it's even funnier seeing some of them have gone onto Fractal units. Shit, that reminds me, Ou offered me his expanded RS10 that I want just for a 'museum' piece, I need to hit him up about that.

I suppose part of it for me as well is I've got enough toys that I'm always in the ballpark of where I want to be, regardless of which guitar or tone I'm going for. I just plugged my G-Force in for the first time since I've had my AxeFX and I completely forgot what I used to do to the delays to get them where I wanted them and now with the Fractal stuff I'm literally clicking a button and fine tuning it takes seconds. I'm never fighting to find a tone I need and I'm not trying to get everything from a single source. Whether that's real amps or a Fractal unit.
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Oh shit.. please tell John Phil said hi..if he even remembers me. It is funny that so many guys are now doing a small pedal board thing but some of those rigs sound great. I never thought I would ever see Zackman go from his rack to a board. He would bring that thing to a kids bday party to play happy birthday with it! LOL . Hell, Bradshaw has been in Lillitz PA for some years now and loves it. I wish that were the case when I wanted my rig done but didnt want to ship the damn thing. I still have all the articles and diagrams Gluke did for beginners on parallel and series applications. That place was a goldmine for knowledge. Good times back then for sure.
 
I think that we can still build, play through and be super happy with a GREAT rig at home, and on the weekends(IF you play out) keep it simpler/more convenient/less valuable while still sounding good enough for the bar crowd. In my case, 10 years ago I'd actually bring a JCM 800 AND an SLO for a changeup during the night. Does anyone in the crowd care? Probably not, but I do..and that's all that matters in the end, right?

I haven't been in a band that tours any further than the 5 state area here in the midwest, so I can't relate to cross country tours like maybe some here....I'd be paranoid about getting stuff stolen for sure. But, at a minimum, I'd have my favorite tone rig at home for enjoyment, and something close to that but not exact to go on tour with.

If I still played out, I'd much rather go to the trouble of carrying a Marshall, cab, and a few pedals and be proud of how I sound which in turn inspires my playing, vs a modeler that 'approximates' that tone. Not to say modeler guys need to change at all, many friends that play out are using them now, and they sound good. Just not great. But I get it, and who knows? If I start lugging my gear out and then I realize my back isn't allowing me to, maybe I then get an FM3? But we here on RT are all about tone, and in the end the small differences add up to very large differences to our ears.
 
mentoneman said:
i’ve been at it for 30 years and still have great fun refining tone and upgrading components and functionality of my rigs.
it’s also encouraging when others beside myself suggest that some of that work has paid dividends.

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I just commented on your clip on YouTube
 
phil b said:
Oh shit.. please tell John Phil said hi..if he even remembers me. It is funny that so many guys are now doing a small pedal board thing but some of those rigs sound great. I never thought I would ever see Zackman go from his rack to a board. He would bring that thing to a kids bday party to play happy birthday with it! LOL . Hell, Bradshaw has been in Lillitz PA for some years now and loves it. I wish that were the case when I wanted my rig done but didnt want to ship the damn thing. I still have all the articles and diagrams Gluke did for beginners on parallel and series applications. That place was a goldmine for knowledge. Good times back then for sure.
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Gluke ? are ya talking about The HRI forum.. That was my go to.. 4 ever
 
phil b said:
Yep,the one and only! HRI was legendary. Marsa still has some archives up but I dont know how long thats gonna stay. Such a killer forum!
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Yes it was, I'm also a refugee from HRI....John01W was my handle on HRI(since early 2000's)....all the HRI crew have pretty much moved to the Huge Racks group on Stalkbook....I haven't been on there for a while but they were all racking as usual/big as ever...was pretty cool to see actually, lots of familiar people there. Still racking!
 
I agree.
Being a tone chaser helps to keep being a musician interesting for me. Having great tone and being a decent player far outweighs being a vertuoso hotshot shred master with lousy tone. I see it all the time when I see local bands. Great tone goes along way, especially playing with a band.
 
the guy I bought my avatar cab from rents concert back lines. He said he was switching to powered monitors because everyone was using axe units. He has a ton of holy grail stuff also…..
 
Everyone hears things differently, some people love their sound and I think it sux....but what do I know I guess. I know what sound I like, and that is what I strive for. Many probably would think it sux. So basically, bottom line, everyone is different.
 
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