Stop The PayPal Gift Nonsense

[just42dave]

get a 69.000 letter from the irs and youll want to use it eos

 

[rottingcorpse]

If you know or trust the person I see no issues.

This for sure. I mostly buy and sell among the same guys most of the time here.

I bought your last three amps.
I do both. If I know you, I have no issue with just transferring money. If I am buying from an unknown entity, paying the fees doesn't bother me at all...even on a 2-3k deal.
The new PayPal policies like the 180 day thing do bother me a bit. But the fees don't.

 

[spliffsperlunk]

This is where some kind of feedback system could be helpful, one that is visible on each users profile as in total amount of feedback and out of the total how many are positive and negative.

 

[sjk]

This thread has me thinking, worried about selling and not using gift for extra seller protection. Just put something up in classifieds for the first time in a yr and a half and asked for regular paypal...may have to rethink this

 

[srommes]

As an accountant, I've always taken issue with using Paypal gift with the exception of doing business with someone you've done business with previously. This new 180 day Ebay/Paypal return policy has changed all that. That is the most ridiculous shit I've ever heard of, giving the buyer 6 months to decide if they want to keep something or not. Most deparment stores don't even have that liberal of a return policy. This has all but killed Ebay and regular Paypal for me. I'm guessing it's only a matter of time before Paypal modifies the gift option or gets rid of it all together.

 

[Racerxrated]

6 Fn months???? Wow I had no idea. I don't use PP or ebay anymore because of a scam I was a victim of...although I clawed my money back in the end. I still haven't seen the item that was 'supposedly' shipped back to me...I just do money orders. Obviously trust is an even bigger issue but so far so good.....

 

[blackba]

Not a fan of paypal gift, it's cutting PayPal out of their cut. If someone wants PayPal gift, I will often just cover the 3% fee myself as the buyer and not use the gift option. There are other options besides paypal to send money, if you don't like the paypal fees, don't use them.

I do also agree that ebay& paypal have sided too far on the buyer side.

 

[thiswaythatway]

As an accountant, I've always taken issue with using Paypal gift with the exception of doing business with someone you've done business with previously. This new 180 day Ebay/Paypal return policy has changed all that. That is the most ridiculous shit I've ever heard of, giving the buyer 6 months to decide if they want to keep something or not. Most deparment stores don't even have that liberal of a return policy. This has all but killed Ebay and regular Paypal for me. I'm guessing it's only a matter of time before Paypal modifies the gift option or gets rid of it all together.

Exactly. Why would anyone use a regular paypal payment anymore is beyond me, that is for bigger purchases. I think with the gift option they don't anytime at all to decide they want a refund, once the sale goes through that's it, done. Sellers need more protection.

 

[JackTripper]

Be aware that many sellers have been scammed using PPG, just Google it.

Here's the basic scenario:

1.The seller asks for the funds to be paid as GIFT, thinking this offers protection for the seller.
2.The buyer sends a paypal gift using a credit card by clicking on the pay the associated paypal fees option.
3.The recipient of the payment (seller) receives the GIFT payment and the full amount shows up in their account as a gift.
4.Everything looks okay so the seller ships.
5.Days or weeks later, the buyer will issue a chargeback with their credit card company based on some unauthorized use scheme.
6.Credit card company will issue a chargeback, and in response, Paypal will hold the associated funds--which are now in the seller's account.
7.Because this was a GIFT transaction, as far as Paypal is concerned, there was no sale or exchange of goods.
8.Because there was no sale, the seller cannot use shipment confirmation to argue a legitimate transaction. Evidence of shipment means nothing when there was no official exchange of goods.
9.Seller's funds are held/retracted.

 

[steve_k]

Be aware that many sellers have been scammed using PPG, just Google it.

Here's the basic scenario:

1.The seller asks for the funds to be paid as GIFT, thinking this offers protection for the seller.
2.The buyer sends a paypal gift using a credit card by clicking on the pay the associated paypal fees option.
3.The recipient of the payment (seller) receives the GIFT payment and the full amount shows up in their account as a gift.
4.Everything looks okay so the seller ships.
5.Days or weeks later, the buyer will issue a chargeback with their credit card company based on some unauthorized use scheme.
6.Credit card company will issue a chargeback, and in response, Paypal will hold the associated funds--which are now in the seller's account.
7.Because this was a GIFT transaction, as far as Paypal is concerned, there was no sale or exchange of goods.
8.Because there was no sale, the seller cannot use shipment confirmation to argue a legitimate transaction. Evidence of shipment means nothing when there was no official exchange of goods.
9.Seller's funds are held/retracted.

And its a damn shame people are actually that crooked or hard up to screw someone that way. The only choice would be for the mother fucker to die.

 

[srommes]

Be aware that many sellers have been scammed using PPG, just Google it.

Here's the basic scenario:

1.The seller asks for the funds to be paid as GIFT, thinking this offers protection for the seller.
2.The buyer sends a paypal gift using a credit card by clicking on the pay the associated paypal fees option.
3.The recipient of the payment (seller) receives the GIFT payment and the full amount shows up in their account as a gift.
4.Everything looks okay so the seller ships.
5.Days or weeks later, the buyer will issue a chargeback with their credit card company based on some unauthorized use scheme.
6.Credit card company will issue a chargeback, and in response, Paypal will hold the associated funds--which are now in the seller's account.
7.Because this was a GIFT transaction, as far as Paypal is concerned, there was no sale or exchange of goods.
8.Because there was no sale, the seller cannot use shipment confirmation to argue a legitimate transaction. Evidence of shipment means nothing when there was no official exchange of goods.
9.Seller's funds are held/retracted.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I didn't think you could pay via PP Gift with a credit card? I thought the funds had to be sent via a bank account?

 

[JackTripper]

Be aware that many sellers have been scammed using PPG, just Google it.

Here's the basic scenario:

1.The seller asks for the funds to be paid as GIFT, thinking this offers protection for the seller.
2.The buyer sends a paypal gift using a credit card by clicking on the pay the associated paypal fees option.
3.The recipient of the payment (seller) receives the GIFT payment and the full amount shows up in their account as a gift.
4.Everything looks okay so the seller ships.
5.Days or weeks later, the buyer will issue a chargeback with their credit card company based on some unauthorized use scheme.
6.Credit card company will issue a chargeback, and in response, Paypal will hold the associated funds--which are now in the seller's account.
7.Because this was a GIFT transaction, as far as Paypal is concerned, there was no sale or exchange of goods.
8.Because there was no sale, the seller cannot use shipment confirmation to argue a legitimate transaction. Evidence of shipment means nothing when there was no official exchange of goods.
9.Seller's funds are held/retracted.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I didn't think you could pay via PP Gift with a credit card? I thought the funds had to be sent via a bank account?

You can PPG using your credit card, you will pay a fee as the sender (or buyer). Paypal fee policy:


Sending money – Personal payments:

It's free within the U.S. to send money to family and friends when you use only your PayPal balance or bank account, or a combination of their PayPal balance and bank account.

There is a fee to send money as a personal payment using a debit card or credit card. The fee in the U.S. is 2.9% plus $0.30 USD of the amount you send. For example, if you send $100.00 USD by credit card, the fee would be $3.20 USD ($2.90 + $0.30). For personal payments, the sender can pay the fee or pass it on to the recipient. If the recipient doesn't want to pay the fee, they can choose not to accept the payment.

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/helpc ... cID=&m=ARA

This translates into the buyer still maintaining options to chargeback (through credit card) and the seller having zero recourse.

 

[siggy14]

Be aware that many sellers have been scammed using PPG, just Google it.

Here's the basic scenario:

1.The seller asks for the funds to be paid as GIFT, thinking this offers protection for the seller.
2.The buyer sends a paypal gift using a credit card by clicking on the pay the associated paypal fees option.
3.The recipient of the payment (seller) receives the GIFT payment and the full amount shows up in their account as a gift.
4.Everything looks okay so the seller ships.
5.Days or weeks later, the buyer will issue a chargeback with their credit card company based on some unauthorized use scheme.
6.Credit card company will issue a chargeback, and in response, Paypal will hold the associated funds--which are now in the seller's account.
7.Because this was a GIFT transaction, as far as Paypal is concerned, there was no sale or exchange of goods.
8.Because there was no sale, the seller cannot use shipment confirmation to argue a legitimate transaction. Evidence of shipment means nothing when there was no official exchange of goods.
9.Seller's funds are held/retracted.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I didn't think you could pay via PP Gift with a credit card? I thought the funds had to be sent via a bank account?

If you pay with Credit card for gift option YOU get charged the pay pal fees and not the receiver, so basically they are getting their money. Of course from bank account is still free on the gift option.

 

[siggy14]

I will only use the gift option if I know the seller or except the gift option if I know the buyer very well. But even so no matter how much you talk to someone on a forum you just never know if they will get desperate enough and end up screwing you. There is no legal recourse if he takes your money and does not send the amp, you can try a chargeback on your card but it will only be temp and more then likely the credit card company will side with Pay Pal as it is pretty cut and clear in their terms.

I am not sure if Pay Pal still offers the E-Check, but that use to be a great option, only cost five bucks to send money from your checking account to someone and you were still protected.

 

[jkdsteve]

Be aware that many sellers have been scammed using PPG, just Google it.

Here's the basic scenario:

1.The seller asks for the funds to be paid as GIFT, thinking this offers protection for the seller.
2.The buyer sends a paypal gift using a credit card by clicking on the pay the associated paypal fees option.
3.The recipient of the payment (seller) receives the GIFT payment and the full amount shows up in their account as a gift.
4.Everything looks okay so the seller ships.
5.Days or weeks later, the buyer will issue a chargeback with their credit card company based on some unauthorized use scheme.
6.Credit card company will issue a chargeback, and in response, Paypal will hold the associated funds--which are now in the seller's account.
7.Because this was a GIFT transaction, as far as Paypal is concerned, there was no sale or exchange of goods.
8.Because there was no sale, the seller cannot use shipment confirmation to argue a legitimate transaction. Evidence of shipment means nothing when there was no official exchange of goods.
9.Seller's funds are held/retracted.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I didn't think you could pay via PP Gift with a credit card? I thought the funds had to be sent via a bank account?

You can use PP Gift/send money to someone with a Credit Card - the person sending the money pays the regular fee however.

 

[Rayneman]

There seems to be pros and cons for both Gift and regular PP.

Even between trusted parties, say an expensive item is destroyed in transit...I've had this happen. I had to provide a LOT of documentation to Fedex about the transaction, including payment verification so they could determine how much they owed me. I had to provide PayPal transaction numbers and whatnot that clearly showed the buyer paying me for an item that was sold and delivered. I don't know if a gift transaction would be sufficient for this. Or, maybe it doesn't matter.

I guess my feelings are that if I am spending $3,000 for amp, and the seller wants $3,000 I'll pony up the extra $90 to make sure if we have a problem, that all bases are covered. Its not about trust, its about covering your ass in case you need it. I'd imagine these shippers would attempt to expose any flaw in the process in an attempt not to pay for damage. It think in the case of honest buyers and sellers, it protects both parties. If a $3,000 amp is totaled during shipping, and the shipper won't pay the claim, someone will lose. I'd hate for the gift option to be part of the reason the shipper doesn't pay. Again, I am not sure if that would happen, but I don't want to find out the hard way.

 

[TrueTone500]

Today is the day! November the 18th officially begins PayPal's new 180 day program.

Though many will disagree, this may be the best thing for the survival of collectable/vintage gear. What this will help do, is discourage sellers to not list items that they know are in need of repair. It will also encourage sellers to PACK GEAR THE WAY IT NEEDS TO BE PACKED to protect it from damage. I've purchased a lot of gear on eBay that was in need of repair. My most recent purchase was a Bogner Metropolis 30 watt half-stack, which arrived with a damaged chassis. The seller (Last Nerve) had recently purchased it on eBay, then decided to flip-it, as one does. I asked him if he had noticed an excessive amount of light emitting from between the chassis and the top of the head box? He admitted to noticing it, but did not know if this was normal. Fair enough... I removed the chassis to find this!






It took many hours of tweaking the chassis using stainless steel plates and clamps, but I was able to get the chassis back to its original form. I could no longer rely on the stock broach nuts to secure the chassis to the head box, so I removed them in favor of using #10 u-clips. btw - I don't recommend using broach nuts to secure a chassis in this fashion. They're fine as stand-off fasteners, but if they should lose traction, you would have no choice but to drill them, cut the screws, or worse - cut into the head box to remove the chassis.

The strike it took also resulted in a compromised solder joint at the midrange potentiometer, which resulted in a lose of signal to the input stage. This took me 2 days to track down, but she's now operating as good as new!

After the repairs...





Last Nerve and I were able to come to an agreeable resolution, so it worked-out well for both of us. I'm sure many would have declared it "damaged during shipping", FedEx would pick up the amp, inspect it for damage, pay the insurance claim, and the amp would then be destroyed! Don't tell me it doesn't happen, because I've seen it happen. If you receive an amp that has been damaged in shipping, contact those of us who can give you advice on repair options... Work with the seller to come to a agreeable solution.

The downside of this 180 day return option, is that guys (and you know who you are) who spend more time flipping gear then they do playing, will continue to use it as a new and improved try and buy policy. Something tells me it's not going to be as easy as has been in the past... We'll have wait and see what tweaks will be made to the policy.

 

[jkdsteve]

Nice fuckin' job on the rework man! Many would just send it back \m/

 

[srommes]

Be aware that many sellers have been scammed using PPG, just Google it.

Here's the basic scenario:

1.The seller asks for the funds to be paid as GIFT, thinking this offers protection for the seller.
2.The buyer sends a paypal gift using a credit card by clicking on the pay the associated paypal fees option.
3.The recipient of the payment (seller) receives the GIFT payment and the full amount shows up in their account as a gift.
4.Everything looks okay so the seller ships.
5.Days or weeks later, the buyer will issue a chargeback with their credit card company based on some unauthorized use scheme.
6.Credit card company will issue a chargeback, and in response, Paypal will hold the associated funds--which are now in the seller's account.
7.Because this was a GIFT transaction, as far as Paypal is concerned, there was no sale or exchange of goods.
8.Because there was no sale, the seller cannot use shipment confirmation to argue a legitimate transaction. Evidence of shipment means nothing when there was no official exchange of goods.
9.Seller's funds are held/retracted.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I didn't think you could pay via PP Gift with a credit card? I thought the funds had to be sent via a bank account?

You can PPG using your credit card, you will pay a fee as the sender (or buyer). Paypal fee policy:


Sending money – Personal payments:

It's free within the U.S. to send money to family and friends when you use only your PayPal balance or bank account, or a combination of their PayPal balance and bank account.

There is a fee to send money as a personal payment using a debit card or credit card. The fee in the U.S. is 2.9% plus $0.30 USD of the amount you send. For example, if you send $100.00 USD by credit card, the fee would be $3.20 USD ($2.90 + $0.30). For personal payments, the sender can pay the fee or pass it on to the recipient. If the recipient doesn't want to pay the fee, they can choose not to accept the payment.

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/helpc ... cID=&m=ARA

This translates into the buyer still maintaining options to chargeback (through credit card) and the seller having zero recourse.

Thanks for the clarification. I was not aware of this.

 

[Mailman1971]

If you know or trust the person I see no issues.

This for sure. I mostly buy and sell among the same guys most of the time here.

I bought your last three amps.

Yeah I have zero problems with you. How are the breasts doing? Stitches healing up? Still swollen?
Sure they will be rocking once they heal up.