Struggling keeping my floyd in perfect balance/staying in tune

  • Thread starter Thread starter Metalhex
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cardinal said:
For Step 2, I put the block in from the back of the guitar, behind the bridge (toward the rear strap pin). Because you've pulled a spring, the tension from the strings will smash the Floyd block firmly against the Post Its, making sure the bridge is truly immobile.

You do the bulk of tuning unlocked with the machine heads. But you need to eventually lock the nut, which often knocks you a bit out of tune. That's what the fine tuner are for.

Then you pull out your Post It stack and put the spring back. The bridge may or may not be level at this point. It depends on how well set up it was before you started and if you changed anything.

If it's not level, you will be out of tune (because you tuned while the bridge was level, right?). So just adjust the claw until the bridge is level again, at which point the strings are back in tune (they'd have to be, their length has been locked).

Tune it to whatever you want while you have the bridge level and immobilized. Lock it all down and let the bridge float and adjust the claw if necessary to make the bridge level again.
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Sounds brilliant. I'm sure it will work as long as I do it correctly. Thanks!
 
I couldn’t imagine pulling trem springs during a string change but there you go - many different ways to do it.
 
Metalhex said:
Thanks everyone for the advice given so far.

I just want to be clear on a couple things..

So, at step 2, you mean to put the stack of notes behind the bridge on the top of the guitar? I've seen people block their bridge from underneath the guitar so I just wanna make sure.

Step 4. Lock and retune. How can you lock and then retune arent the tuners locked already or do you mean use the fine tuners at that part? (Because at step 6 of course you say to dont touch them) wouldnt you tune them first then lock it?

Step 6. "You're probably out of tune"...does this mean that the strings wont be tuned to drop b, but they will still be in tune with each other? I would think that they would have to be in tune with each other so that when you adjust the spring claw screws back to "tune" the strings will still be in tune with each other but now they are at the pitch I want them to be?
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All you really need to know is that a floating bridge works by balancing the tension of the strings against the springs. If you get to where you're close to being in tune and the bridge is angled upwards, it means you need to screw the spring claw into the guitar body further, thus pulling the strings. Rinse and repeat until the bridge is level. In these posts, you never mention the spring claw, so I assume this is the part you're missing. If you change tunings and/or string gauge, you're effectively changing the string tension, so you have to compensate by adjusting the spring tension too.
 
Metalhex said:
can i ask then how you would do it?
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Sure - more or less exactly as others have said above. I can tell you I have never removed a trem spring to do a string change ever in my life but there’s lots of ways to do it.

I like to adjust with old strings and make sure everything is the way I want it with used strings. They are stretched out and basically how my new strings will become. If some fine tuning is needed with freshies so be it. But my setup should be pretty good with my used strings.

I adjust my string claw to be parallel with the body when at pitch.

I remove all strings, use a post it pad under my trem. Or you can put a pick holder or similar in the back side between the block and the wood. Just something to hold the trem so the springs don’t pull the trem all the way down. Or on non-floating trems that are blocked, I do nothing, just let bridge rest against trem stop.

With strings off guitar I put a piece of tape over my saddle blocks so they won’t fall out as I move my guitar around. I polish frets using gorgomyte or 0000 steel wool. I treat my fretboard and polish the guitar.

I install my strings. Tune to pitch and stretch them out.
Tune to pitch and stretch them out.
Tune to pitch and stretch them out.
Tune to pitch and stretch them out.

When they don’t change much after stretching I make sure my fine tuners are set to approximate middle of their travel, tune to pitch again then I tighten down my locking nut and fine tune using the fine tuners.

Of course all this is if I am not changing string gauge. If I am changing string gauge I will need to adjust my string claw at a minimum. Possibly will need to adjust truss rod.

Overall I agree with Napalms comments above You learn by doing. The school of hard knocks as they say. There are millions of Floyd’s and trems and players using them. It’s no biggy. Just keep at it. You will get better and better with experience and living through it. It’s worth it!

9
 
I'm either not understanding or just shocked that so many are pulling all the strings and somehow blocking the trem for a string change. I've changed one string at a time on every guitar I've ever owned since day 1. It takes just a few minutes and on a Floyd no adjustments/blocking/messing with springs required.

When changing tunings or string gage, the string change itself is still done one at a time. Then the adjustments are made and there is a back and forth to get it perfect. After that it should stay in tune except for temperature changes.
 
Some good tools to have if you are going to work on your Floyds yourself:

For intonation:
https://redbishop.jp/EN_RBIA1.html
For pulling and installing springs:
https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-too...ols-for-bridges/tremolo-spring-installer.html
For blocking the trem:
https://www.stewmac.com/parts-and-h...guitar-tremolo-parts/shredneck-tremblock.html
or if your prefer to block the trem from the back:
https://www.amazon.com/Floyd-Rose-Floating-Tremolo-Blocks/dp/B075XDB1D8
The Red Bishop is the best intonation tool I have found for the Floyd.
 
thenine said:
Don’t you ever polish your frets?
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Yes but I typ do it once when I build/buy the guitar and don't need it again for a very long time if ever. I also rarely if ever clean or condition the fretboard. When I generally do those types of things I might be removing the whole trem for one reason or another. But I'll go thru at least 25 string changes before I do that type of work again...if ever. I can't recall ever doing it twice to the same guitar.
 
I just change one string at a time. It keeps most of the tension where it should be. If you do need to remove them all, then yes, blocking it if it is a recessed unit is necessary.

Even then, when I put all the strings back on, I usually just tune them with the following pattern to bring up the correct tension via string number:

1-6 (high E - low E)
2-5
1-6
3-4
1-6
2-5
3-4
1-6

I am usually 100% in tune after doing that. I don't need to pull springs off.
 
The FUD surrounding Floyds is way overhyped IMO. A Floyd bridge is nothing more than a glorified floating 2 point VTrem. Only difference on the bridge is the Floyd has locking saddles and a whale tail. A floating vtrem functions by the same mechanics and physics as a floating Floyd.

Then there is the locking nut... which is the reason for the whale tail. The nut is not a part of the bridge per se, but goes hand in hand with a Floyd Tremolo like peas and carrots. Unless you have a non-fine tuner Floyd, then you probably have a standard nut anyway.

Any floating tremolo is time consuming and frustrating when you are just starting out. With repetition, attention to detail, and adaptability it can become considerably less painful.

I for one remove all strings when restringing. Why? Why not. If you block the trem it really doesn’t matter if you do one string at a time or pull them all. I wipe down my frets and fretboard at every string change and check for loose/lifting frets (every 2-3 weeks). I will also occassionally detail and wax the body (an additional 10-15 minites).

I do not pull any springs on a string change though. Probably because I use the tremblock that I posted earlier which allows me to block the bridge from the top of the guitar.

I can do a string change on a Floyd in 15-20 minutes. That is string removal, new strings installed, stretched, locked, and tuned. I can change tunings/string gauge with a string change in 25-30 minutes.

Once properly stretched and tuned, I have come back to a cased guitar with a Floyd after more than a year that was still in tune. The extra time spent on getting a Floyd strung and tuned is still less time than the total time spent tuning, retuning, retuning, retuning, retuning during the life of a set of strings on a non-double locking setup. YMMV
 
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seedofc said:
All you really need to know is that a floating bridge works by balancing the tension of the strings against the springs. If you get to where you're close to being in tune and the bridge is angled upwards, it means you need to screw the spring claw into the guitar body further, thus pulling the strings. Rinse and repeat until the bridge is level. In these posts, you never mention the spring claw, so I assume this is the part you're missing. If you change tunings and/or string gauge, you're effectively changing the string tension, so you have to compensate by adjusting the spring tension too.
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I thought i meantioned it. But i do adjust the spring claw. My problem is it takes many turns of the screws to get it where it looks good, and i dont know of its normal to have to turn them that much. Like everyone says it takes alot of trial and error. But i just want to play my guitar again and stop fussing around.
 
Metalhex said:
I thought i meantioned it. But i do adjust the spring claw. My problem is it takes many turns of the screws to get it where it looks good, and i dont know of its normal to have to turn them that much. Like everyone says it takes alot of trial and error. But i just want to play my guitar again and stop fussing around.
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Ahh, sorry I must've missed it. Yes, you need to adjust the tension via the screws as much as needed to get the strings in balance, up until you bottom out the screws - that means that you need more spring tension (via more springs or higher tension springs).

Take for example my two Floyd based guitars: The first one is tuned in E standard with 10-46 strings. This provides a certain amount of tension. In this guitar, I have two springs and the claw crews only have a few threads left sticking out of the guitar body. The second one is tuned in drop C with 11-56 strings. This combo requires three springs with the claw screws in a similar location. Note that the distance between the trem block and the claw is different in both guitars, so the E standard guitar gets a bit more room to stretch (roughly 3 1/2" of spring length, stretched vs 3 1/4" for the drop C guitar).

In any case, this is all to point out that you need proper opposing tension to get the bridge level to whatever string tension you have with your preferred tuning.

I get that you want to just play and not fiddle with your guitar - but the trick is, as others have pointed out, is that once you get it set and stable, it stay that way. If you want to change the strings, it's easy - just change one string at a time and bring to pitch, stretch, bring to pitch, rinse repeat for all strings. If you keep the tuning and the string gauge the same guess what? The spring tension never needs to change - it should be the same!

Now, if you want to say, oil your board, and need to take all the strings off, the only reason you need to block the trem (in cases where it's fully floating), since the springs will have no opposing force, is so the floyd doesn't drop out and damage your guitar. Remember, if your claw stays in the same place, and your springs are the same, and nothing else is changing about that spring tension, then everything should go back into place the same, so long as you use the same string gauge and tuning.

If you want to change tuning and/or change string gauge, you're changing the tension of the strings, and you'll then have to change the spring tension / claw to compensate.

Again, once you get a certain string/spring tension set, it will pretty much stay like that forever.

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IMG_20210224_093229~2.jpg
 
SpiderWars said:
I'm either not understanding or just shocked that so many are pulling all the strings and somehow blocking the trem for a string change. I've changed one string at a time on every guitar I've ever owned since day 1. It takes just a few minutes and on a Floyd no adjustments/blocking/messing with springs required.

When changing tunings or string gage, the string change itself is still done one at a time. Then the adjustments are made and there is a back and forth to get it perfect. After that it should stay in tune except for temperature changes.
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I do the same...but when I change a pickup I’ll block it to keep tension. That’s when I’ll clean fretboard/polish frets
 
For a first time FR setup take it to a tech.

When you change strings next do it one at a time. Tune each time.

You are now in a better position to figure out what micro-changes are needed because it's already setup.

It is all about the screws and spring tension in the cavity and tuning order.

These are the videos you really want.



 
rottingcorpse said:
Once you get it set up correctly with your specific sting gauge/intonation and tuning,you will be fine. Yes,it sucks at first. Eventually you learn all the little tricks that work for you for string changes.

Once you have spent countless hours fine tuning during the first 3-4 string changes,you will start to see how all the little things you do add up to the issues you encounter...and you learn how to compensate for these issues as you change the way you do the little things. (BTW,I had to really think out how I wrote that but it does make perfect sense for the problems you will encounter and overcome.)

I personally always pull the Floyd out of the guitar when changing strings(tho I rarely change strings). This allows me to scrub it with a tooth brush to get rid of the nasty crap and lube up the naughty bits before attaching all the strings with it sitting on the bench(read as "my lap"). Then I reinstall it into the guitar and use a rag to set it close to level before stringing up the headstock. This is just what works for me.

Personally,I am giggling at your issues...simply because I remember your current frustrations vividly even tho they were so long ago. So very long ago....

I have to go take a nap because I feel so old now. But I am still giggling.
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?well said!!
 
sahlomonic said:
Here's something not a lot of people talk about and I believe it needs to be discussed.

Take the bridge off the posts. Is there any wiggle or play in the posts? If so, it won't matter how well you set up the Floyd - you will always have tuning instability if the posts aren't tight.

How to fix it? You might be able to get away with wrapping the posts in thread tape, but if there's play then most likely you have coarse threaded posts, which will almost always have play. If you can switch to fine threaded posts that will help tremendously.

Another reason may be the knife edges on the trem are worn out or mushroomed.
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This is a very pro tip!
 
Metalhex said:
Floyd noob here. This is only my second time changing strings on a floyd. The first time, I did not change the string gauge or tuning. The second time, and on a different guitar, I did change the string gauge and tuning. Both times resulted in me going back and forth between everything for hours to get everything close to perfect harmony. This time I still cannot keep it to stay in tune... It's a FR 1000 series btw.

I stuffed folded mail under the bridge to keep it parallel/flush with the body as best as I can. I unlocked/changed strings. Tuned them up to relative pitch, tighten the nut down. Remove the mail from under the bridge, everything still looks flush and parallel. Now I adjust the fine tuners. But as im fine tuning each string, the string I tuned prior to that is already sharp. So everything is one step forward, two steps back.

Also while im doing this, I can see the bridge tilting up and not being parallel anymore. I dont know what to fix first so im doing everything between adjusting the two screws under the back plate, to unlocking the tuners and re-tuning it, retuning with the fine tuners....everything just to get the bridge parallel again and be in tune. Going back and forth a hundred times until I finally get it flush and stay in tune. The strings are locked in nice and snug and stretched, everything looks good. ::strums a chord:: "okay well that stayed in tune, here let me put it to the test and try a dive bomb..... ::strums chord again:: FUCK!!!!".

There has to be some much easier way that I dont know about so I can avoid the constant pushing/pulling. What am I supposed to do? Why would the whammy bar send everything out of tune when everything looks to be good tight and flush? It's always supposed to stay in tune in any situation, so obviously I'm doing something wrong. Thanks.
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I’d be happy to walk you through how to do this over the phone. Shoot me an email if your interested. Info@hyperionguitarworks.com
 
The best way and easiest way to tune a floyd........block it so it only dives!??
Plus if you want to install a d-tuna, you need to block so it dives only.
But if you like pulling up and all those Vai tricks.......then ..........
 
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