Suhr Reactive Load Vs Two Notes Vs Rockcrusher

[Alex_S]

Personally, listening to rockinchippy's clips ( a guy with great amps and top notch gear), if I notice a difference in the tone quality between when he mics with an sm57 and when he uses impulses (regardless of the load), I have to conclude as I have with my own trials, that a real mic still beats impulses.

Pete Thorn is so far the only guy who's clips to me, sound how I would want them to sound. Most other people's clips sound "soft" or "round" if that makes any sense. The detail and the bite I find is in most cases, what is missing. I think this might be a plus for lead work and lead tracking, but detracts from the rythm. I keep getting close but no cigar when it goes up against the mic. (with my setup anyway) To me, a combined setup of a real mic and impulses is still what would work best.

When only using IR with a load box for recording guitar tracks, a high end (tube) preamp and AD convertor is also very important to get real convincing guitar tracks with great depth, warmth and dynamics! When you have mediocre preamps and AD convertors the results with IR will also differ. And the difference between a mic or a IR is not that big in a real mix in my experience.

For recording guitar tracks i have a Torpedo Reload and a Suhr RL and i'm using Ownhammer IR. From the Reload and RL line out i go straight into a Universal Audio 2-610 tube preamp and from the UA preamp into a RME AD convertor. If i go straight into the RME AD convertor without the UA preamp the sound lacks serious depth and warmth. A lot of people think that by using a (reactive/resistive) load box with line out and go straight into a AD convertor (or their computer sound card) is doing the job well with IR. I disagree, always use a good preamp, the same as by using a preamp with real mics in front of your guitar cabinet. It makes a big sonic difference... ask Pete ;-)

Very interesting. I was not aware that using a preamp in between the RL and the AD is necessary/best practice. Is that common sense? I never heard it before. But that could explain the lack of warmth you describe, that I hear. I have to give it a try. Thanks for the tip!

 

[The Lo Lands]

Personally, listening to rockinchippy's clips ( a guy with great amps and top notch gear), if I notice a difference in the tone quality between when he mics with an sm57 and when he uses impulses (regardless of the load), I have to conclude as I have with my own trials, that a real mic still beats impulses.

Pete Thorn is so far the only guy who's clips to me, sound how I would want them to sound. Most other people's clips sound "soft" or "round" if that makes any sense. The detail and the bite I find is in most cases, what is missing. I think this might be a plus for lead work and lead tracking, but detracts from the rythm. I keep getting close but no cigar when it goes up against the mic. (with my setup anyway) To me, a combined setup of a real mic and impulses is still what would work best.

When only using IR with a load box for recording guitar tracks, a high end (tube) preamp and AD convertor is also very important to get real convincing guitar tracks with great depth, warmth and dynamics! When you have mediocre preamps and AD convertors the results with IR will also differ. And the difference between a mic or a IR is not that big in a real mix in my experience.

For recording guitar tracks i have a Torpedo Reload and a Suhr RL and i'm using Ownhammer IR. From the Reload and RL line out i go straight into a Universal Audio 2-610 tube preamp and from the UA preamp into a RME AD convertor. If i go straight into the RME AD convertor without the UA preamp the sound lacks serious depth and warmth. A lot of people think that by using a (reactive/resistive) load box with line out and go straight into a AD convertor (or their computer sound card) is doing the job well with IR. I disagree, always use a good preamp, the same as by using a preamp with real mics in front of your guitar cabinet. It makes a big sonic difference... ask Pete ;-)

Very interesting. I was not aware that using a preamp in between the RL and the AD is necessary/best practice. Is that common sense? I never heard it before. But that could explain the lack of warmth you describe, that I hear. I have to give it a try. Thanks for the tip!

Your welcome! I don't know if its common sense, it's simply something i do for years with great results Also used a cheap ART MPA Gold tube amp for years with analogue guitar simulators to give more warmth and remove some of the harshness. I know a lot of guitar players don't use a preamp between the two and often complain about the lack of depth and warmth. It's also great for levelling the output volume better before going into the AD convertor. Let me know if it works for you...

 

[Spaceboy]

I have a dumb question. Can the Suhr reactive box be used as an attenuator to a cab instead of a line out to a DAW or whatever?

 

[paulyc]

Doesn't Pete use Neve 1073s and API 512 preamps racked up ? I don't know if he uses a/any tube pres...

 

[The Lo Lands]

Doesn't Pete use Neve 1073s and API 512 preamps racked up ? I don't know if he uses a/any tube pres...

Not sure about that, Pete has lots of gear in his home studio Maybe Pete uses digital pre's with his Universal Audio Apollo? But i'm certain he uses some sort of preamp before hitting the IR software in his DAW. It doesn't really matter if its a tube, digital emulation or solid state preamp, that's personal taste, the same as we all use different IR cabinets

 

[jonthomas83]

Hi all,

Really interested in going this route, perhaps I'll finally be able to play all those big boy amps in the comfort of my own home!

However, I'm loving the featureset of the Fryette Power Station but heard really good demos and first hand reviews of the Suhr Reactive Load. Has anyone had experience of both and how do you think they compare?

Did Pete Thorn get a chance to try a Fryette yet and what were his thoughts?

Cheers

 

[The Lo Lands]

Hi all,

Really interested in going this route, perhaps I'll finally be able to play all those big boy amps in the comfort of my own home!

However, I'm loving the featureset of the Fryette Power Station but heard really good demos and first hand reviews of the Suhr Reactive Load. Has anyone had experience of both and how do you think they compare?

Did Pete Thorn get a chance to try a Fryette yet and what were his thoughts?

Cheers

I think i've read somewhere he also compared the PS with the RL en Reload!? The RL is a dedicated Reactive Load box and not a attenuator. The PS and Reload are build to do both but keep in mind it's also a compromise (attenuate and load box). All these unit will give you great results with IR, but if you are looking for the 'best' reactive load box and record your guitar parts with IR the RL is the cheapest and best way to go imho.

 

[Alex_S]

Doesn't Pete use Neve 1073s and API 512 preamps racked up ? I don't know if he uses a/any tube pres...

Not sure about that, Pete has lots of gear in his home studio Maybe Pete uses digital pre's with his Universal Audio Apollo? But i'm certain he uses some sort of preamp before hitting the IR software in his DAW. It doesn't really matter if its a tube, digital emulation or solid state preamp, that's personal taste, the same as we all use different IR cabinets

Hey LoLands,

I've checked for tube preamps now and they aren't cheap to be honest (at least the ones mentioned). So it's not an easy tryout for me. On the other hand I find my direct RL to IR sounds lacking what you mentioned. Do you have a comparison recording so I could check if I think the difference is worth the $? That would be very helpful. (Or know one of course).

Thanks Alex

 

[The Lo Lands]

Doesn't Pete use Neve 1073s and API 512 preamps racked up ? I don't know if he uses a/any tube pres...

Not sure about that, Pete has lots of gear in his home studio Maybe Pete uses digital pre's with his Universal Audio Apollo? But i'm certain he uses some sort of preamp before hitting the IR software in his DAW. It doesn't really matter if its a tube, digital emulation or solid state preamp, that's personal taste, the same as we all use different IR cabinets

Hey LoLands,

I've checked for tube preamps now and they aren't cheap to be honest (at least the ones mentioned). So it's not an easy tryout for me. On the other hand I find my direct RL to IR sounds lacking what you mentioned. Do you have a comparison recording so I could check if I think the difference is worth the $? That would be very helpful. (Or know one of course).

Thanks Alex

I don't have a quick comparison recording, i only did a test for myself. I think if you don't want to spend lots off money you could try a second hand ART MPA Gold MKI or the new MKII. I've had the ART preamp for many years with great results, only swap the two cheap Chinese tubes for lets say Tung Sol tubes. The ART may be not as detailed as a high end tube preamp but for the money the ART is a great unit and gives you the extra warmth and depth you might seek for. You could listen to my latest short track 'Radio Silence' which is recorded with the Suhr RL and Ownhammer IR and the UA 2-610 tube preamp. The songs before that are recorded with the Torpedo Reload and the oldest songs in the list are recorded with the ART and by using analogue cab simulators. https://thelolandsmusic.bandpage.com/

 

[Alex_S]

Doesn't Pete use Neve 1073s and API 512 preamps racked up ? I don't know if he uses a/any tube pres...

Not sure about that, Pete has lots of gear in his home studio Maybe Pete uses digital pre's with his Universal Audio Apollo? But i'm certain he uses some sort of preamp before hitting the IR software in his DAW. It doesn't really matter if its a tube, digital emulation or solid state preamp, that's personal taste, the same as we all use different IR cabinets

Hey LoLands,

I've checked for tube preamps now and they aren't cheap to be honest (at least the ones mentioned). So it's not an easy tryout for me. On the other hand I find my direct RL to IR sounds lacking what you mentioned. Do you have a comparison recording so I could check if I think the difference is worth the $? That would be very helpful. (Or know one of course).

Thanks Alex

I don't have a quick comparison recording, i only did a test for myself. I think if you don't want to spend lots off money you could try a second hand ART MPA Gold MKI or the new MKII. I've had the ART preamp for many years with great results, only swap the two cheap Chinese tubes for lets say Tung Sol tubes. The ART may be not as detailed as a high end tube preamp but for the money the ART is a great unit and gives you the extra warmth and depth you might seek for. You could listen to my latest short track 'Radio Silence' which is recorded with the Suhr RL and Ownhammer IR and the UA 2-610 tube preamp. The songs before that are recorded with the Torpedo Reload and the oldest songs in the list are recorded with the ART and by using analogue cab simulators. https://thelolandsmusic.bandpage.com/

Thanks for the tips. I guess I really try it. I guess I hear what you mean from the tracks (of course I might be wrong as you changed some factors) and your sound improved a lot. Great music and playing by the way. Very nice!

 

[The Lo Lands]

Thanks for the tips. I guess I really try it. I guess I hear what you mean from the tracks (of course I might be wrong as you changed some factors) and your sound improved a lot. Great music and playing by the way. Very nice!

Your welcome I do all by myself so it's a learning curve and its not only the load i use but also the whole mixing and mastering process. When recorded all guitar tracks the real 'work' begins so to speak Great you liked it, thanks!

 

[Bronco]

Personally, listening to rockinchippy's clips ( a guy with great amps and top notch gear), if I notice a difference in the tone quality between when he mics with an sm57 and when he uses impulses (regardless of the load), I have to conclude as I have with my own trials, that a real mic still beats impulses.

Pete Thorn is so far the only guy who's clips to me, sound how I would want them to sound. Most other people's clips sound "soft" or "round" if that makes any sense. The detail and the bite I find is in most cases, what is missing. I think this might be a plus for lead work and lead tracking, but detracts from the rythm. I keep getting close but no cigar when it goes up against the mic. (with my setup anyway) To me, a combined setup of a real mic and impulses is still what would work best.

When only using IR with a load box for recording guitar tracks, a high end (tube) preamp and AD convertor is also very important to get real convincing guitar tracks with great depth, warmth and dynamics! When you have mediocre preamps and AD convertors the results with IR will also differ. And the difference between a mic or a IR is not that big in a real mix in my experience.

For recording guitar tracks i have a Torpedo Reload and a Suhr RL and i'm using Ownhammer IR. From the Reload and RL line out i go straight into a Universal Audio 2-610 tube preamp and from the UA preamp into a RME AD convertor. If i go straight into the RME AD convertor without the UA preamp the sound lacks serious depth and warmth. A lot of people think that by using a (reactive/resistive) load box with line out and go straight into a AD convertor (or their computer sound card) is doing the job well with IR. I disagree, always use a good preamp, the same as by using a preamp with real mics in front of your guitar cabinet. It makes a big sonic difference... ask Pete ;-)

Great post!

So where in the chain is the Ownhammer? In your DAW?

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

I don't buy the AD converter argument as much anymore.. is there a difference between high end and newer entry level? Yes absolutely... BUT I see the difference being more of an EQ thing than I do a night and day difference. I do hear a difference in the type of load box used (as per Pete Thorn's) video but ultimately, I prefer the mic. Going down the converter route is a bit of a rabbit hole... people spending 2k on a good converter and another 500$ on a silent load box would be better off just building a small room to crank their amps in. On my list of to do's however, would be to try to make a capture of my own speakers and see if it holds up. You need a decent power amp for this though I think.

The ultimate would probably be to put your cab face down under some blankets and then use the line out into your own IR's.

 

[Scallywag666]

I hve the rockcrusher recording and its awesome, heard the Palmer speaker sim is pretty badass too

 

[GrandmaGirl]

The Two Notes and Rock Crusher are very similar to loading with the real cab- with slight differences. I have used the TN units to great effect and I think they are terrific and great options, and the Rivera and TN Reload, with their switchable impedance, both get along great with my AC15 at 16 ohms (the AC15 only sounds good on the 16 ohm tap for some reason)....

Ugh, I don't like hearing this. Are you saying that, of all the options you're discussing here, the AC15 only sounds good through the Rivera or the TN Reload with their 16 ohm options? My only amp is an AC15 and I've been gearing up to purchase either the Torpedo Live or the Suhr Reactive Load in order to get good sounds for silent practising and recording, but those two units both have fixed 8 ohm loads, and if the AC15 only sounds good with a 16 ohm load I should obviously go for something else.

In case Mr Thorn doesn't see this: Does anyone else in here have any experience using a Vox AC15 with either the Torpedo Live or the Suhr Reactive Load?

Thanks.

 

[niner]

One last thing- a fella emailed me the other day, saying he just wasn't sold on the load/IR thing, he got the Suhr and was using some IR's and said he's a busy pro, and he just wouldn't feel comfortable yet using the tones he was getting over traditional mic techniques. I suggested he try Ownhammers, as they are just outstanding IR's, and he said he'd give that a try. Well he wrote back a few hrs later and was like, wow holy shit THAT did the trick. Long story short, if you are going this route just get Ownhammers and thank me later they are SO worth the measly $19.95 (I think?) he charges for each studio mix library. Great amp+great load+great IR and you will have GREAT tone. Any one thing missing and the tone won't be there.

Hey Pete-

Do you have any specific faves as far as the OwnHammer IRs? Would love to know which ones you're using these days

thanks,
Tim

 

[Hung Huy Tran]

I picked up a Suhr Reactive Load last week and I really like it. I recorded a clip within minutes of unpacking the Reactive Load. A couple of minutes to dial in a tone and add a bit of post eq and I was done. The drum track is from fretless at the guitarampboard.

http://www.tonefinder.com/?section=id&value=16632

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

If you have to add post EQ to make it sound as good as the original source, doesn't that sort of defeat how transparent these things are supposed to be? Why spend the extra on a two notes for example when you can get a rivera rock crusher for half the price.. I am in the market for a new attentuator. My Hotplate is slowly dying so might be time to pick something up that can do double duty for IR's as well. Ultimately I think i am going to have to make my own impulses to really be happy. Any of you guys doing that to really compare? I know Pete Thorn did but he also has some nice gear sitting between the guitar and DAW. (preamps for example never mind the source loading the amp.. i am sure preamps make a huge diff as well to the top end and clarity).

When I listen to Suhr clips, for some reason I feel like the bottom end is hyped. A lot of these loads hype the lows or kill the highs.

 

[Hung Huy Tran]

I didn't add eq to make it sound as good as the original source. The source is what needed help.

 

[Ventura]

I just got the Suhr reactive load. I'm running through my torpedo cab for a silent practice solution. I'm really impressed with the results. I've used this on two of my amps and it really captures the feel and tone well.

That's a great setup. Try running into a powered monitor (I use the Atomic CLR), instant bitchin tone at any volume.

I love my CLRs... So versatile.

Pete, thanks for taking the time to get in here and throw down some solid intel

Mo