Tariff Day 4/2/25

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The~Kid said:
In Econ for example we were taught Tariffs were bad and they were bad for the economy because we are a service driven economy and that's just the way it was due to Globalization
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This is one of the biggest problems with schools now-a-days. The professor should not be interjection their opinion into anything. They should just teach how tariffs work, give some examples of tariffs being implemented and their results, then call it lesson complete. Let the students make up their own mind if they're a good or bad thing based on facts & historical data. Facilitate critical thinking skills not indoctrination.
 
MadAsAHatter said:
This is one of the biggest problems with schools now-a-days. The professor should not be interjection their opinion into anything. They should just teach how tariffs work, give some examples of tariffs being implemented and their results, then call it lesson complete. Let the students make up their own mind if they're a good or bad thing based on facts & historical data. Facilitate critical thinking skills not indoctrination.
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I totally agree.....

The thing is these werent the Professors opinions or anyones opinions...... and there is merit to what he says..... in a normal 2% inflation economy or say in one where the main goal is to maintain a service driven economy and boost the GDP of such an economy. He was also a Republican so he wasn't Woke or nothing and this was just sound Economics he was taught and everyone is taught in any respectable Business Program or College.

These are actual Economics taught and a lot of it is sound and it's like a science and these are conventional economics

Sort of like conventional maths that are hard to argue over or not agree to when it comes to things that affect the supply and demand curve for example there are a lot of well known ones for example the Fed buying or selling Treasuries or raising or bringing down interest rates and these are the most basic to understand and what they do to the supply and demand curve.

In regards to demand the Tariffs do have a very real effect on demand and Econ teaches this and that is true no matter who does it or who is President. This is kind of nerdy stuff but normally Tariffs just aren't possible given normal inflation as they do hurt the economy or bring demand down to put it appropriately but as said with this stupid high inflation or inflation above 2% what the President is doing isn't just possible its welcomed as it helps bring inflation down by bringing demand down much like the Feds higher interest rates and how they bring inflation down.

And also the goal here isn't to maintain a service economy it's to bring manufacturing jobs and good jobs back. Professor was a genius and I don't want to say I know better than him or knew more either..... but a part of me felt that if the Fed did enough Quantative Easing and actually boosted inflation above 2% which they never did as they were battling deflation and at the time inflation was below 2% and this is why they were printing money fighting deflation to get inflation back to 2%.... this was the Obama years..... then one could theoretically push Tariffs and not have any issue as the inflation above 2% would counteract the Tarrifs effect on pusing demand down..... I never brought it up because it's a pretty insane thing to do or think about but yeah that was my answer to bringing manufacturing and real jobs back to the States.........


And well damn me if a situation as such hasn't arised in my lifetime to make it possible and that time and situation is now IMO. Normally it's not a sound thing to do but with inflation as it is now IMO it's a sound thing to do.
 
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I’ll take a month or so of pain to get things where they need to be. This was always about leverage, not Trump wanting to be mean to other countries as it is commonly portrayed by deluded leftist’s. Time will tell which side knew what they were talking about the whole time. Like it or not, Trump has a history of being proven right about a ton of stuff the left laughed their asses off about and said he was delusional about.
When he has been proven right, the left has a 100% track record of ignoring reality and changing the conversation because they are incapable of acknowledging they were ever wrong about anything.

And they are wrong about almost everything.
And it never seems to phase them in the slightest manner, mostly because it would require them to acknowledge they were lying about whatever the topic was..

For at least the next 4 years, the orange man is gonna make them eat their words and deeds every day..
I don’t think this will be any different.
If I’m wrong after a few months of seeing how this plays out, I’ll say I was wrong.
Doesn’t bother me at all. At least he did something…

We either have to make changes that work for us just as any country would do and have done, or we continue to be screwed and nothing changes
 
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Here is an example of the current tariffs US products face:

50% tariffs on US dairy products sold to EU

700% tariff on US rice sold to Japan

100% tariff on US agriculture products sold to India

nearly 300% tax on US butter and cheese products sold to Canada


Remember these countries are supposed to be our allies.

Reciprocity is going to hurt everyone; I know the markets are crashing in the pre-opening futures this morning...it's going to be painful to fix decades of the USA being taken advantage of by our "friends and allies".

My sailboat in retirement is now highly unlikely, and my retirement date has been pushed out indefinitely, but I understand why, and agree with what Trump and DOGE are doing with tariffs, taxes, government waste, spending, corruption...my only concern are future RINOs / demoncrats that will bring back the wasteful spending, corruption, money laundering, etc. after Trump. We need at least 8 years, ideally 12 years of Trump, Vance, etc. to get our economy back on track from those who stole our taxpayer funds, and plundered our social security and medicare that we all (most of us) paid for.


 
All these countries that we have been carrying and supporting are now letting their feelings about us be known. All because our president says this is not fair nor beneficial to the American people. And people wonder why I’m a semi isolationist… we should keep defending Europe and everywhere from imaginary Russian threats. We should send thousands more of our citizens to defend and die for them. Gtfooh…
 
Mexico and Canada were excluded from the tariffs due to negotiations between the three countries, something involving cars was done but for the most part they were excluded from them. They caved in and accommodations were made.....

So there is flexibility given the tariffs.

If you kind of look at it too like a game of RISK, the US kind of has a established a Fortress North America financially speaking and no matter what others say about Chinas so called great economy which isn't what it used to be and Europe at war and how their economy is going relative to every other country or economic union the US still has the biggest, largest and most powerful economy in the world with no real check to it no matter how "bad" things get.


Vietnam is about to bring its tariffs to the US down to 0% for example as a result.

More than not more and more countries will cave in and give in to the demands and negotiate under the tariffs as time passes and of course the inevitable loopholes around them. They have neither the means nor power to resist nor can they afford to otherwise given the state of their economies. The US is the only one with the real gun in the room and always have been and now the US is using it.
 
rsm said:
Here is an example of the current tariffs US products face:

50% tariffs on US dairy products sold to EU

700% tariff on US rice sold to Japan

100% tariff on US agriculture products sold to India

nearly 300% tax on US butter and cheese products sold to Canada


Remember these countries are supposed to be our allies.

Reciprocity is going to hurt everyone; I know the markets are crashing in the pre-opening futures this morning...it's going to be painful to fix decades of the USA being taken advantage of by our "friends and allies".

My sailboat in retirement is now highly unlikely, and my retirement date has been pushed out indefinitely, but I understand why, and agree with what Trump and DOGE are doing with tariffs, taxes, government waste, spending, corruption...my only concern are future RINOs / demoncrats that will bring back the wasteful spending, corruption, money laundering, etc. after Trump. We need at least 8 years, ideally 12 years of Trump, Vance, etc. to get our economy back on track from those who stole our taxpayer funds, and plundered our social security and medicare that we all (most of us) paid for.


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That's a pretty sobering, if not brutally honest, assessment.

The US has no friends. We have allies that we maintain a purely transactional relationship with to protect our interests. We spy on them to protect those interests, and they spy on us to protect theirs. Friends don't spy on friends. We give our allies aid when they are in crisis, again, to protect our interests.

Let me ask you an honest question. On one side of the Oval Office we have Lutnick, Navarro and a bunch of other sycophantic hacks in their slipstream that are living in the 1950s, and they want to take us back there. After all, it was an example of great American Industrial Exceptionalism. Hooah!

On the other side of the Oval Office is Elon. And Elon is living in the 2050s, and he wants to take us forward there. In Elon's vision, there are no worries about labor costs because there are no labor costs. Elon knows this, because he's working on technologies that will remove labor altogether. There will be programmers needed to run the automation, but Elon is perfectly fine with allowing exceptions (i.e., through visas) to immigration policy if that talent doesn't exist here in the U.S.

So, who's vision of American Exceptionalism do you think is going to win out over the next couple decades?
 
JackTripper said:
That's a pretty sobering, if not brutally honest, assessment.

The US has no friends. We have allies that we maintain a purely transactional relationship with to protect our interests. We spy on them to protect those interests, and they spy on us to protect theirs. Friends don't spy on friends. We give our allies aid when they are in crisis, again, to protect our interests.

Let me ask you an honest question. On one side of the Oval Office we have Lutnick, Navarro and a bunch of other sycophantic hacks in their slipstream that are living in the 1950s, and they want to take us back there. After all, it was an example of great American Industrial Exceptionalism. Hooah!

On the other side of the Oval Office is Elon. And Elon is living in the 2050s, and he wants to take us forward there. In Elon's vision, there are no worries about labor costs because there are no labor costs. Elon knows this, because he's working on technologies that will remove labor altogether. There will be programmers needed to run the automation, but Elon is perfectly fine with allowing exceptions (i.e., through visas) to immigration policy if that talent doesn't exist here in the U.S.

So, who's vision of American Exceptionalism do you think is going to win out over the next couple decades?
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This is a loaded question which can't be answered because you're making unsubstantiated assumptions.
 
JackTripper said:
It's a philosophical question. But I'm curious, what's unsubstantiated?
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The whole thing is unsubstantiated and it's not philosophical. It's a question set up in an attempt to be used as a "gotcha moment" because you used specific names and assumed intentions. An actual philosophical question to spark discussion would not have used names, only a scenario. Your "honest question" is being asked in bad faith; or at least that is the way it is coming off.
 
MadAsAHatter said:
The whole thing is unsubstantiated and it's not philosophical. It's a question set up in an attempt to be used as a "gotcha moment" because you used specific names and assumed intentions. An actual philosophical question to spark discussion would not have used names, only a scenario. Your "honest question" is being asked in bad faith; or at least that is the way it is coming off.
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That's bullshit, and I'm not asking you, I'm asking rsm. The names are metaphors--pick or choose any name you want if it makes you happy. If you don't understand what I'm asking, then maybe the question is too big for you.
 
JackTripper said:
That's bullshit, and I'm not asking you, I'm asking rsm. The names are metaphors--pick or choose any name you want if it makes you happy. If you don't understand what I'm asking, then maybe the question is too big for you.
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Sounds like someone's pissed because they got called out. Why else would you deflect and go straight to insults?
 
MadAsAHatter said:
Sounds like someone's pissed because they got called out. Why else would you deflect and go straight to insults?
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How about you let rsm respond--unless he appointed you his spokesperson? If he wants to call me out, then so be it.

As I said, honest question. If my metaphors caused your panties to bunch, then my apologies.
 
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JackTripper said:
How about you let rsm respond--unless he appointed you his spokesperson? If he wants to call me out, then so be it.

As I said, honest question. If my metaphors caused your panties to bunch, then my apologies.
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Only person with their panties in a bunch appears to be you.

Let's recap.
-You asked a "hypothetical" question on a public forum.
-I called you out that it was a rigged question set up to be gotcha moment.
-You became pissed that you were outed and went straight to the who asked you, you're an idiot deflect and insult tactic
-I called you out on that as well.
-You've now appear to be more frustrated and doubled down on the deflect and insult.

If there was any doubt left of what you were initially trying to pull, you've removed it.
 
MadAsAHatter said:
Only person with their panties in a bunch appears to be you.

Let's recap.
-You asked a "hypothetical" question on a public forum.
-I called you out that it was a rigged question set up to be gotcha moment.
-You became pissed that you were outed and went straight to the who asked you, you're an idiot deflect and insult tactic
-I called you out on that as well.
-You've now appear to be more frustrated and doubled down on the deflect and insult.

If there was any doubt left of what you were initially trying to pull, you've removed it.
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Chill out, dude.
 
Time to go practice your guitar guys since we aren't going to change the world here today. :LOL:
 
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