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Racerxrated
Well-known member
...And here's where I say any and all speakers, can sound different even if they are from the same year. Is it the cab? Maybe....this 87 cab I have is VERY different sounding than any other (I owned 3 over the years, 86-88 yrs) T75 cab, next version after the vents. I know you take the speaker out individually and that's cool; but I never play them as individuals to the cab HAS to count in my review. The mids I hear in my present T75 cab, has mids that are not that far removed from the vented versions. The Vents that I had, also had to me extended lows/highs to go with good mids. These 75s I have now, have less highs/lows than the vented versions I had, and about the same mids; maybe a touch less. But very very diffferent than the next versions, that came out in 88/89 and further yet removed from the 90s till today versions that are VERY mid scooped. I've had cabs from those eras as well, bought cheap just to use the cabs for different speakers.
This cab I have now, is a throwback small check mono input that mimics an early 70s cab...maybe they used better quality wood? If so that would explain the tonal differences. These cabs went with the first Plexi reissues in 87/88.
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Racerxrated
Well-known member
The combo I had with them, was a very mid heavy sounding 4104. Maybe it was modded? But, the mid emphasis was something I could not dial out. So, the speakers had to have something to do with that.
Vs either the 1777 or 444 cone G12 80, that had far less midrange than that amp. I had to dial the mids to 0 just to get anywhere decent sound that I like to dial in.
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braintheory
Well-known member
In the isolated comparisons I also compare all of the same speakers I have as well and in these ~4 years comparing examples of the same speakers (many from the same years), while there have been some expected differences (that are even more exposed in isolated comparisons), they’ve never yet for me differed by really that much unless one was reconed or had some other clear spec differences, especially with core characteristics like the midrange (not the amount present, but the character of them)
The isolated comparisons I think are a crucial step to really know what the speaker’s actual voicing is. It’s otherwise like trying fruits but only in the context of them in a smoothie and trying to still fully understand what that individual fruit’s flavor is, but really I give my full opinions with the isolated comparisons as a key first step to understand what actually is the speaker’s sound and then in the context of some cabs and mixes with other speakers to really get a fuller picture and at the that point I can also understand sometimes where other’s are coming from with sometimes very different opinions on it because I’ve now heard it in various contexts
The cabs IME really can color so much (not that this is good or bad). I compared all 4 non-vented and 4 vented T75’s individually. The differences were to me very pronounced in the way I said in my previous post and all 4 of the non-vented and vented respectively sounded roughly the same to each other when ab’ed isolated. Iirc the vented ones were all from the same year and were the non-vented to eq ccv other. Of course no one will realistically use speakers isolated (it sounds very dry and less pleasant lol), but they expose the actual speaker’s character a lot more to really zero in on that and more so also potential issues they could have that so many times now I couldn’t detect when mixed with 3 others in a 412 (such as coil rub sometimes or other extraneous noises that shouldn’t be there). It only takes a me a few minutes to do and is so helpful
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braintheory
Well-known member
I’ll have to see how the 444 versions compare when I get them
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braintheory
Well-known member
As a first step I like to hear them isolated and compared to others, might also try in some 112’s and if I like them enough then try to find 2 more for a full quad and can experiment with some mixes later. I find also I usually prefer whole quads, but some mixes here and there have been amazing IME such as the right JBL and Celestion mixes (something I fully agree with EVH on lol)
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Racerxrated
Well-known member
I hear you; and most of the time speaker comparos are done this way. And, it does make the most sense. But, you take a speaker that exhibits certain qualities on it's own, put it in a cab and it sounds very different than when you did the first tone test. That's my point, the cabs have a HUGE say in how any speaker is going to sound. Some cabs have the ability to lift a speaker to sound MUCH better than you'd expect, and others are DOA when it comes to tone. It's a big crapshoot in the end unless you have a stock inventory of empty Kerry Wright or vintage Marshall cabs.
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braintheory
Well-known member
Yes, the cab can make them sound very different in what they either accentuate or subdue in the speaker’s qualities, but after trying so many different speakers in my various cabs and hearing the speakers isolated, I can have much better awareness in what I’m hearing as the overall product (what is the cab and speakers contributing) and I value that awareness. While it’s very true how great cabs can sometimes lift speakers that aren’t my favorites and sound great, I try to do what I can to just take the best speakers and cabs and find the best combinations with them. It’s like mixing ingredients the right way. Even some of my all time favorite speakers like M20 or 417B’s haven’t always resulted in sounds I liked until figuring out which cabs work best with them and sometimes also which speakers to fill out what they need. I guess long story short, by figuring out as well as I can the core sound of the speakers and cabs it becomes less of a crapshoot and I can sort of predict which speakers I wanna put in which cab for best results in the sound I want, but the results can still sometimes not be what I expect
Greazygeo
Well-known member
When we used to do the vintage guitar shows, in Buffalo, I met Ritchie Blackmore’s guitar tech Dawk. He had a bunch of Ritchies stuff for sale. There were some of his white 4-12 cabs and were loaded with the 80’s. Also talking with Uli Roth he mentioned he used them too. They both hated GB’s.
The CL80 is one of my favorite speakers. Very balanced from lows to highs. Downside is 4 of the in a cab are too heavy for me to want to move around anymore.
There is a pair of G12-80’s with the 444 cones local to me. May have to try them…
The CL80 is one of my favorite speakers. Very balanced from lows to highs. Downside is 4 of the in a cab are too heavy for me to want to move around anymore.
There is a pair of G12-80’s with the 444 cones local to me. May have to try them…
thegame
Well-known member
Some further thoughts on what to expect from these speakers relative to other popular ones:
G12-65s - will smooth out and reduce high end bite from bright amps. Great for Marshalls without a depth circuit, etc
G12-80s 444 - doesn't really add to or reduce the high end response. It's quite even/neutral in that regard.
V30s - always adds a ton of upper mid emphasis to any amp. First impression may be that V30s lows are tighter than that of G12-80s but I feel this is due to the V30s tendency to roll off and not have as much bottom as the other two speakers listed here.
Years ago I pushed all these speakers to the limit with a Mesa Strategy 400 power amp and in terms of keeping their composure at absurd volumes, the results were from least to greatest: 65s, V30s, G12-80s (444). The 80's were the only ones saying to the 400 power amp, "is that all you've got?"
G12-65s - will smooth out and reduce high end bite from bright amps. Great for Marshalls without a depth circuit, etc
G12-80s 444 - doesn't really add to or reduce the high end response. It's quite even/neutral in that regard.
V30s - always adds a ton of upper mid emphasis to any amp. First impression may be that V30s lows are tighter than that of G12-80s but I feel this is due to the V30s tendency to roll off and not have as much bottom as the other two speakers listed here.
Years ago I pushed all these speakers to the limit with a Mesa Strategy 400 power amp and in terms of keeping their composure at absurd volumes, the results were from least to greatest: 65s, V30s, G12-80s (444). The 80's were the only ones saying to the 400 power amp, "is that all you've got?"
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