Terje ...

[SQUAREHEAD]

LOL

I don't use ear condoms (yet). I insist to have a lots of breaks during rehearsals (not just to have a smoke) and try to get thru gigs healthy . . . we have a super loud drummer (the best one I ever had the pleasure to play with) - and me thinks that my son (2.5) when he's crying is giving me more damage (when I pick him up after he has hurt himself) than any drummer could ever do - he's louder than a Motörhead gig

Does he have a "Lemmy mole"??

Keith

 

[mysticaxe]

I'm sorry. Have you ever played in a live situation?
(a) Once the adrenaline flows, I'm amped up, so I know the drummer is too. That plays into hitting the cymbals.
(b) I can stand in front of a loud guitar amp for a long time without much ear ringing. Two good hits on a crash and I'm ringing.
(c) Hitting a cymbal with a cotton ball doesn't produce the types of sounds suitable for rock.
(d) I wear earplugs during rehersals, but go au-natural on stage. Haven't had any significant negative effects so far.

 

[Odin]

...A good drummer can play his instrument in a manner that is suitable for the job...

EXACTLY! And loud blasting drums is what's suitable for hard rock. So we agree afterall.

We do agree, and I've played in my share of loud rock bands and loved it, for the most part. But when we played on a small stage where I had to stand close to the drums the drummer was always expected to reduce the volume accordingly. I'm not taking about playing with brushes and acoustic guitars, I'm talking about reducing the drum volume so that it doesn't cause hearing damage.

A singer wouldn't accept me blasting my 100 watt tube amp directly into his ears while he tried to sing, why should he accept a drummer blasting his snare and cymbals directly into his ears while he sings?

Think about this - if you're on a small stage and the drummer is hitting the snare and cymbals loud enough to cause hearing damage what do you think that drummer is doing to the vocal mix? This may come as a surprise to a lot of people, but microphones are not intelligent devices. A microphone amplifies the loudest source of sound that it picks up. It doesn't know that it's a "vocal mic". If the drums are louder than the singer at the singer's mic position then the vocal mic is picking up more drums than vocals. In this case, an overly loud drummer is ruining the band's mix out front, making the entire band sound bad (and bruising the lead singer's delicate ego).

Loud is good, so loud that it causes permanent hearing damage is bad. IMO the solution is less drum volume, not ear plugs. Ear plugs mask a problem, not solve a problem.

 

[Odin]

Dynamics doesn't mean "playing quiet". A rock drummer can play solid and loud without damaging the ears of the people on stage, and he can do it with dynamics if the song calls for dynamics. Contrary to many drummers' belief, routinely breaking cymbals and drum heads is a sign of poor technique (hitting too hard).

are you a drummer? I hope not, since I actually like taking advice on playing an instrument from someone who doesn't actually play said instrument.

If a drummer told me (a guitarist) my business like he was some kind of authority, I'd very politely tell him to shut the fuck up

If you were playing your guitar so loudly on stage that it was causing the drummer permanent hearing damage, and the drummer asked you to utilze the volume knob or redirect the output of your amplifier in a manner that did not cause him hearing damage, you would "tell him to shut the fuck up"? All that proves is that you're an idiot incapable of reason.

I suspect that I'm debating this issue with an amateur/bedroom player. Good luck getting pro level gigs at deafness inducing volumes on any instrument.

 

[ranalli]

That's EXACTLY how I knew I had problems, Chris!
I was at a party and could not hear this guy talking from all the background noise!

Keith

Fuck that....I don't even like to go to concerts without ear plugs anymore...it's just not worth it.


And ear plugs don't necessarily make everythign sound like crap....they do if you have shit ones. I've even sang lead vocals while playing guitar and could hear everything fine although it is an adjustment.


I figured the pros are able to do it....there's no reason why i can't make the adjustment.

 

[bunghole]

I suspect that I'm debating this issue with an amateur/bedroom player. Good luck getting pro level gigs at deafness inducing volumes on any instrument.

you're right

and I suspect I'm debating this issue with a dumb shithead

 

[bunghole]

That's EXACTLY how I knew I had problems, Chris!
I was at a party and could not hear this guy talking from all the background noise!

Keith

Fuck that....I don't even like to go to concerts without ear plugs anymore...it's just not worth it.


And ear plugs don't necessarily make everythign sound like crap....they do if you have shit ones. I've even sang lead vocals while playing guitar and could hear everything fine although it is an adjustment.


I figured the pros are able to do it....there's no reason why i can't make the adjustment.

as far as attending concerts, I think ear plugs make things sound better. They take out the high end hiss, and generally make stuff sound better to me. Not quite the same crispness as without plugs, but better than not being able to make out some notes

 

[PeteLaramee]

I never understood wearing earplugs to play music. Earplugs make the stage sound like crap IMO. If your ears are ringing when you come off stage then you turn down the music next time. When you reach a volume that doesn't cause your ears to ring then you're probably safe. Why would you knowingly and willingly play at a volume that causes you discomfort?

Most of the people I know who suffered hearing damage from playing live had it come from the drums, not from the amps blaring.

I agree. I have significant hearing loss in my right ear. My amp has ALWAYS been behind me to the left while my fat, hard hitting drummer-brother has always been to my right. I can't imagine my problems being caused by anything besides my brother's snare.

Having said that I still can't get myself to wear earplugs. I know I should, but it's simply not the same. I've said it before and I'll say it again...it's like fucking with a rubber.

 

[Odin]

I'm sorry. Have you ever played in a live situation?

Literally thousands of shows between 1984 and today, sometimes over 100 shows per year, all live, paid gigs. Country, classic rock, blues, 80's cock rock, Slayer/Anthrax-style old metal, etc...

I currently own amps ranging from a Fender Pro Jr (15 watts 1x8 combo) to a Splawn Quickrod (100 watt head and cabs) with many others in-between. I have owned countless rigs over the years and played loud too many times to remember. My hearing is fine.

(a) Once the adrenaline flows, I'm amped up, so I know the drummer is too. That plays into hitting the cymbals.

I agree. That's the way it's supposed to be IMO. But all things have limitations. When you start causing me medical problems you have crossed the line of acceptability.

(b) I can stand in front of a loud guitar amp for a long time without much ear ringing. Two good hits on a crash and I'm ringing.

If possible move away from the crash. if not possible have the drummer hit the cymbal with less force. It's not rocket science.

(c) Hitting a cymbal with a cotton ball doesn't produce the types of sounds suitable for rock.

Never tried it, but I imagine it wouldn't.

(d) I wear earplugs during rehersals, but go au-natural on stage. Haven't had any significant negative effects so far.

I never wear earplugs. We rehearse at a lower volume so we can hear exactly what's going on and the singer doesn't have to strain his voice for rehearsal. Gigs are loud, but not damaging loud.

 

[bunghole]

Having said that I still can't get myself to wear earplugs. I know I should, but it's simply not the same. I've said it before and I'll say it again...it's like fucking with a rubber.

but then you might get ear aids

 

[Bob Savage]

Sorry to hear about your hearing damage Keith.

Tell your drummer to turn it down and stuff.

 

[Bob Savage]

Sorry to hear about your hearing damage Keith.

Tell your drummer to turn it down and stuff.

I'm sure Keith's hearing issues have nothing to do with his roomfull of vintage Marshall Super Leads.

What?

 

[SQUAREHEAD]

Ok guys,

I just called and told my drummer to turn it down but he can't have phone conversations anymore... he needs to read lips.

kw

 

[orangekick]

Sorry to hear about your hearing loss. I've always worn earplugs when playing music or just attending shows. I made the mistake of not doing that early on and I played with a rather rambunctious drummer in a loud band and I've had constant ringing ever since then. I decided not to let it get worse.

 

[philb]

The band I'm in plays really loud. I wear earplugs, that's it. I'm the only one wearing them.
I don't care. I got use of playing with them and its fine.

 

[PeteLaramee]

I agree. I have significant hearing loss in my right ear. My amp has ALWAYS been behind me to the left while my fat, hard hitting drummer-brother has always been to my right. I can't imagine my problems being caused by anything besides my brother's snare.

Having said that I still can't get myself to wear earplugs. I know I should, but it's simply not the same. I've said it before and I'll say it again...it's like fucking with a rubber.

They say it's actually the cymbals that cause the damage. I guess the frequency they're at is what does it.

I can believe that. He hits that china like he's trying to split it in half. But his snare is significantly louder than anything else in his set.

 

[PeteLaramee]

Having said that I still can't get myself to wear earplugs. I know I should, but it's simply not the same. I've said it before and I'll say it again...it's like fucking with a rubber.

but then you might get ear aids

...hmm...good point. Maybe I should hold out for oral aural?!?!

 

[bunghole]

I agree. I have significant hearing loss in my right ear. My amp has ALWAYS been behind me to the left while my fat, hard hitting drummer-brother has always been to my right. I can't imagine my problems being caused by anything besides my brother's snare.

Having said that I still can't get myself to wear earplugs. I know I should, but it's simply not the same. I've said it before and I'll say it again...it's like fucking with a rubber.

They say it's actually the cymbals that cause the damage. I guess the frequency they're at is what does it.

I can believe that. He hits that china like he's trying to split it in half. But his snare is significantly louder than anything else in his set.

I don't play in a band, but have played with drummers, and while those cymbals are a bitch and a half, I agree that the snare - when hit hard enough and at the right pitch - is just brutal (and not in the good sense)

 

[guitar_god123456]

ive probably already fucked mine up from ipod alone

 

[kannibul]

I never understood wearing earplugs to play music. Earplugs make the stage sound like crap IMO. If your ears are ringing when you come off stage then you turn down the music next time. When you reach a volume that doesn't cause your ears to ring then you're probably safe. Why would you knowingly and willingly play at a volume that causes you discomfort?

Most of the people I know who suffered hearing damage from playing live had it come from the drums, not from the amps blaring.

+10!