THE FRACTAL DEBACLE

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I still don't give a shit about anything AxeFX ....go figure. I guess that works in my favor. Nice product, still don't want one. Standard, Ultra, II....I agree with those that find it odd about those that don't get a business model. Dude is putting out a new product. WTF don't you guys get? The only people that should have a problem are the ones he directly lied to, IF that actually happened. They would and should have a legitimate claim. At that point, they could decide to sell their AxeFx and take their business elsewhere if they were not satisfied. That is how business works. I hear the Eleven Rack is awesome. Now get a grip.
 
The worst part of them is their fans ...they are off the hook .sometimes I wonder if most of the forum is 15 .It reminds me a lot of HC
People creating threads like is it shipping yet? you said 2 weeks you said 2 weeks,It is not surprising that Cliff does not want to release information.
I fear the countdown might have backfired for this reason .He should have waited a month or 2 till the unit were in stock IMO.
The best part of that forum while Beta testing meant Jay Mitchell was busy .So before you guys go off on Peterson ,Go read some of Jay's quality responses to questions.
I have to believe that is his internet personality because if he is like that in person ...I could see him going through life getting repeated beatings
 
jcj":2at6te4j said:
I've been sold for a long time....I upgrade maybe once a year (whenever I can talk somebody into doing it, or when I go to the LA amp show and Tom does it for me) :lol: :LOL:

This is V 9.01 or 9.02...or something like that ....a little wet, but you get the idea :thumbsup:



Sounds and feels REALLY good to me, and I have a pretty good frame of reference..... :rock:

Bottom line?

Don't let it be an either or......there's just no need :D


Your SLO clip just dialed in Crunch .sounded amazing and is one of the vids that has me strongly considering the AXE oh yeah and Mark Day .who I actually saw live with the axe and it sounded great
 
moltenmetalburn":7zs1v14y said:
I don't understand why the majority of those who have no dog in this fight have basically said:

Technology changes , big deal thats how it goes, stop bitching.

Or

Your axe 1 doesn't suck now , so just keep it.

The thing is all of you have missed the point entirely. I have not heard anyone complaining about anything other than not being told it was coming at all, and the repercussions of that fact.

in fact many have quoted posts at the fractal forum that could be called blatant lies stating otherwise. I was lied to in person. I asked if i should wait for axe 2 instead of buying an obsolete product. I was told that a new axe wouldn't be for a very long time less than a year ago. 11 months is not a very long Time in my book.

Ive read people comparing the situation to apple, motor vehicles and computers. Not one of them has admitted that apple, car manufacturers, and new computer tech, are ALL mentioned before the release date. Apple has press conferences, autos have coming soon ads and commercials, even all the new computer hardware if you know where to look. For example we already know a new tigersharc is on its way.

The singular point for me was that if the company had been honest about its intentions many customers could have avoided being screwed, particularly customers like me who bought days or weeks before the announcement. I just wanted the opportunity to choose to wait for the new tech or be satisfied with the old, either way I would have the option.

Im well aware that good business practice = unethical business practice.

Hmm, a tangent but that just brought Steinbeck to mind:

"It has always seemed strange to me... the things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty, understanding and feeling, are the concomitants of failure in our system. And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness, egotism and self-interest, are the traits of success. And while men admire the quality of the first they love the produce of the second."

Also the fact was that the correspondence between fractal and I about returning my unit, was downright short and nasty only, on their part. The tone changed only after they offered me an option and I accepted. It was as if they were hoping they could dissuade me with the 10 percent restocking fee that I had accepted as a loss and then were pissed it wasn't enough to make me go away. I could be totally wrong but it sure felt that way. They even forced my hand to ship them the unit overnight. After i waited 48 hours for a first response and then an additional 24 for an rma number. I was then told if the item didn't arrive the next day they would reject the return as the needed to erase my credit card info for security purposes. lame ass bs. If were currently working out a return together save my f'n cc number!

Not sure who was on the other end of each of my emails but someone at fractal IS a dick .


I am happy that I was able to return it and move on to the new tech. In that respect i was done a favor, which i do wholeheartedly appreciate. I did get the stock " your past the return dater, sorry" after all i was a few days past the return date.

In the end though I still feel a little bent over, I spent about $450 to test an axe for a little more than two weeks and sent a totally mint unit back to them, still had the f'n plastic on it. Its win win for fractal. Theyll sell it asap, and wind up having made full profit on an old piece of tech even after it is obsolete. Had they mentioned the release it would have personally saved me $500. Thanks fractal, I hope you enjoyed the lobster dinner and beer on the night of the release, it was on me...

No Apple product is officially announced by Apple before its release date. Everything you read beforehand is pure speculation, rumors, etc. All which, btw, existed for the AxeFX too, weeks to months before the II was released. Anyone even moderately participating in guitar forums and interested in an Axe-FX knew that.

Additionally, 11 months is a ridiculously long time in electronics. It may not be "in your book", but it is in every single industry I've ever worked in. No sane businessman is going to tell you nearly a year out "yeah, hold off. I've got something cooking that'll be out next year". Kinda makes it hard to sell the current units, you know?

To go back to the Apple analogy, my company bought eleven 13" MacBook Pros, which I received literally a month before the newer i5 processor equipped 13's came out. Were we "stuck" with over $13K of old technology when the new models were significantly faster? I suppose. However it's really not that big of a deal, when the "old" model performs the tasks that are required of it, and were purchased based upon the fact that we were happy with the specifications at the time. Kinda like how all the Ultra people were happy with the specs at the time they purchased. Well, except that unlike our Macs, the Ultra specs magically were completely inferior come the II announcement.

I won't debate that FA may not be the most ethical bunch around, and from the posts I've seen from FA themselves I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry to buy anything from them. But what they did wasn't off-base, nor was it remotely unique.
 
jcj":1stdnso9 said:
I've been sold for a long time....I upgrade maybe once a year (whenever I can talk somebody into doing it, or when I go to the LA amp show and Tom does it for me) :lol: :LOL:

This is V 9.01 or 9.02...or something like that ....a little wet, but you get the idea :thumbsup:



Sounds and feels REALLY good to me, and I have a pretty good frame of reference..... :rock:

Bottom line?

Don't let it be an either or......there's just no need :D

lol Josh you know its at 11.0 now right? :D
 
jcj":rb18u26z said:
I've been sold for a long time....I upgrade maybe once a year (whenever I can talk somebody into doing it, or when I go to the LA amp show and Tom does it for me) :lol: :LOL:

This is V 9.01 or 9.02...or something like that ....a little wet, but you get the idea :thumbsup:



Sounds and feels REALLY good to me, and I have a pretty good frame of reference..... :rock:

Bottom line?

Don't let it be an either or......there's just no need :D
You know, I'm going to maybe be the first to say this, but that quick lil' slam during the clip definitely had some Rhoads'esque moments to it!! DAMN fine playing - I like it, a lot. Nicely done.

V. :thumbsup:
 
In retrospect the announcement of the FXII seems so obvious that you have to wonder why anyone was even surprised. That some (many?) were is a tribute to the power of denial and the willingness to believe what you want to believe.

I don't know how FAS divvies up responsibilities among the handful of employees. I think Cliff does a nice job of engineering, but OTOH, they continue to use a starter version web storefront that has almost no features. No effort goes into providing information to customers on availability--sales admits that she generally does not respond to any emails on that topic. And yet two minutes a day updating an auto responder message would cover 99% of the requests. The MFC so-called domestic waiting list continues to be a source of irritation many months after the product was announced.

The routine response to someone who wants to buy an AFX has been to sit on the store site and keep trying, perhaps for weeks, until you get lucky and put one in your cart... and be sure to get your credit card info entered lest someone else buys it before you finalize the purchase. It seems that nobody gives a sh*t about this stuff. Now Cliff says there will be plenty of units on day one to cover all the orders. As Dubya said, "... fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

I kept my Ultra through the countdown because I didn't want to be without one for an extended period of time, and was willing to take a hit on resale. The only thing I found surprising about the announcement was the price of the new model, so I decided my Ultra would make an inexpensive backup unit. I'm looking forward to playing with an FXII, but dreading the purchase process.
 
jcj":1meb8jrs said:
I've been sold for a long time....I upgrade maybe once a year (whenever I can talk somebody into doing it, or when I go to the LA amp show and Tom does it for me) :lol: :LOL:

This is V 9.01 or 9.02...or something like that ....a little wet, but you get the idea :thumbsup:



Sounds and feels REALLY good to me, and I have a pretty good frame of reference..... :rock:

Bottom line?

Don't let it be an either or......there's just no need :D

Fuck yea!!!! That sounds good to me man. Just the axeFx and the power amp?
 
oldmanmetal":2gwtz9gn said:
jcj":2gwtz9gn said:
I've been sold for a long time....I upgrade maybe once a year (whenever I can talk somebody into doing it, or when I go to the LA amp show and Tom does it for me) :lol: :LOL:

This is V 9.01 or 9.02...or something like that ....a little wet, but you get the idea :thumbsup:



Sounds and feels REALLY good to me, and I have a pretty good frame of reference..... :rock:

Bottom line?

Don't let it be an either or......there's just no need :D

Fuck yea!!!! That sounds good to me man. Just the axeFx and the power amp?

Yessir....Axe to the VHT, out to the Bogner :thumbsup:

Here's the dead dry....same revision.....

 
jcj":33iovm5y said:
oldmanmetal":33iovm5y said:
jcj":33iovm5y said:
I've been sold for a long time....I upgrade maybe once a year (whenever I can talk somebody into doing it, or when I go to the LA amp show and Tom does it for me) :lol: :LOL:

This is V 9.01 or 9.02...or something like that ....a little wet, but you get the idea :thumbsup:



Sounds and feels REALLY good to me, and I have a pretty good frame of reference..... :rock:

Bottom line?

Don't let it be an either or......there's just no need :D

Fuck yea!!!! That sounds good to me man. Just the axeFx and the power amp?

Yessir....Axe to the VHT, out to the Bogner :thumbsup:

Here's the dead dry....same revision.....


Josh,

Can't you dial in some hiss and noise like an SLO? :lol: :LOL: :lol: :LOL: :lol: :LOL: :lol: :LOL:
 
jcj":4yucf1wm said:
oldmanmetal":4yucf1wm said:
jcj":4yucf1wm said:
I've been sold for a long time....I upgrade maybe once a year (whenever I can talk somebody into doing it, or when I go to the LA amp show and Tom does it for me) :lol: :LOL:

This is V 9.01 or 9.02...or something like that ....a little wet, but you get the idea :thumbsup:



Sounds and feels REALLY good to me, and I have a pretty good frame of reference..... :rock:

Bottom line?

Don't let it be an either or......there's just no need :D

Fuck yea!!!! That sounds good to me man. Just the axeFx and the power amp?

Yessir....Axe to the VHT, out to the Bogner :thumbsup:

Here's the dead dry....same revision.....

:D that dry sound just sold me on the axe..tube or no tube to my ears that is a great tone :rock:
 
nighttrain69":1k8hy8ov said:
jcj":1k8hy8ov said:
oldmanmetal":1k8hy8ov said:
jcj":1k8hy8ov said:
I've been sold for a long time....I upgrade maybe once a year (whenever I can talk somebody into doing it, or when I go to the LA amp show and Tom does it for me) :lol: :LOL:

This is V 9.01 or 9.02...or something like that ....a little wet, but you get the idea :thumbsup:



Sounds and feels REALLY good to me, and I have a pretty good frame of reference..... :rock:

Bottom line?

Don't let it be an either or......there's just no need :D

Fuck yea!!!! That sounds good to me man. Just the axeFx and the power amp?

Yessir....Axe to the VHT, out to the Bogner :thumbsup:

Here's the dead dry....same revision.....

:D that dry sound just sold me on the axe..tube or no tube to my ears that is a great tone :rock:
Yeah I never had a Slo amp and when I tried that preset it became used a lot. Probably would have never thought about a Slo amp if it wasn't for the AFX. :thumbsup:
 
Here's the dead dry....same revision.....

That to me is the best hi gain rythm tone I have ever heard in a modeller and yes it sounds like a stack miced up to me easily
 
donbarzini":tu0gfg7r said:
gtr31":tu0gfg7r said:
Here's the dead dry....same revision.....

That to me is the best hi gain rythm tone I have ever heard in a modeller and yes it sounds like a stack miced up to me easily

It does sound good but I think that is going Axe-Fx to power amp to a real speaker cabinet so it is really a stack mic'd up.

true although infinitetly more tone options with the Axe front ends .but yes you have a point it is am AMP setup

--In addition this does not sound exactly like the SLO I have played in a room 2 feet away to
It sounds like Mick Mars at a Motley soundcheck ..through a 1000 watt PA ..it just has that miced sound and air .as oppossed to the amp right next to ya ,Which is what some are complaining about ..but great sound i would use live and would not be in the least disappointed if that what was coming out FOH and coming back at me through the moniters
 
donbarzini":3nt1r0vq said:
gtr31":3nt1r0vq said:
donbarzini":3nt1r0vq said:
gtr31":3nt1r0vq said:
Here's the dead dry....same revision.....

That to me is the best hi gain rythm tone I have ever heard in a modeller and yes it sounds like a stack miced up to me easily

It does sound good but I think that is going Axe-Fx to power amp to a real speaker cabinet so it is really a stack mic'd up.

true although infinitetly more tone options with the Axe front ends .but yes you have a point it is am AMP setup

--In addition this does not sound exactly like the SLO I have played in a room 2 feet away to
It sounds like Mick Mars at a Motley soundcheck ..through a 1000 watt PA ..it just has that miced sound and air .as oppossed to the amp right next to ya ,Which is what some are complaining about ..but great sound i would use live and would not be in the least disappointed if that what was coming out FOH and coming back at me through the moniters

it doesn't sound like that through an FRFR set-up at least with the Verve 12 that I had, didn't like it at all. I think all modelers do an excellent job with the preamp tones, it's the feel and cab modeling that blows it. Maybe the II will really be better but we don't know at this point until some un-biased tell-it-like-it-is fully grown male individual gives it a shot ;)

Unbiased fully grown male, here :D

I've always said that the strength of the Axe Fx is in being able to tweak a sound that YOU like, based on a starting point provided in the models. I've never approached it as a device that will dial a perfect SLO, VH4, Plexi, or what have you. I can't imagine you would be happy if you did. If I wanted something EXACTLY like a (insert amp here), I'd just buy one. :lol: :LOL:

As to whether it sounds and feels like a "tube amp", I've played and owned tons of tube amps, and some of them sound and feel like shit, so that's wide open for debate. :D

I will say that for me, the Axe actually sounds and feels better than any LOW VOLUME tube amp I've ever played. If I couldn't open up my tube amps, I wouldn't own them; they ALL sound shitty to me at low volume.

My fully grown unbiased .02 :D

Editing to add that I've never tried a true FRFR system. I've tried the Atomic cabs, but they're tube.

I do want to experiment with true FRFR, but I'm happy with what I have going now, so the pain in the ass factor comes into play :lol: :LOL:
 
donbarzini":orwo78ir said:
it's just a computer, I mean SIGNAL PROCESSOR, that has been updated to a new one, the old one is worth less now. big deal. move on men.

It's NOT just a signal processor- it's an instrument in itself, a philosophy, religion, a way of life................

Wait - , it really IS just a signal processor, a really good one , but just a SIGNAL PROCESSOR ,never mind.
 
donbarzini":toggk59g said:
gtr31":toggk59g said:
donbarzini":toggk59g said:
gtr31":toggk59g said:
Here's the dead dry....same revision.....

That to me is the best hi gain rythm tone I have ever heard in a modeller and yes it sounds like a stack miced up to me easily

It does sound good but I think that is going Axe-Fx to power amp to a real speaker cabinet so it is really a stack mic'd up.

true although infinitetly more tone options with the Axe front ends .but yes you have a point it is am AMP setup

--In addition this does not sound exactly like the SLO I have played in a room 2 feet away to
It sounds like Mick Mars at a Motley soundcheck ..through a 1000 watt PA ..it just has that miced sound and air .as oppossed to the amp right next to ya ,Which is what some are complaining about ..but great sound i would use live and would not be in the least disappointed if that what was coming out FOH and coming back at me through the moniters

it doesn't sound like that through an FRFR set-up at least with the Verve 12 that I had, didn't like it at all. I think all modelers do an excellent job with the preamp tones, it's the feel and cab modeling that blows it. Maybe the II will really be better but we don't know at this point until some un-biased tell-it-like-it-is fully grown male individual gives it a shot ;)

We're not really talking about tube amps vs. a modeler though anymore when you're using it with a tube power amp through a regular cabinet, which seems to be what the best tones are at.

I mean, basically we're talking about a really high end Spider Valve. :D Not that that's a bad thing either. I've been hearing people get really nice tones from POD Pro/XT Pro/X3 Pro for years now, through a Mesa 2:90 and regular guitar cabs. The AFX just takes that to a much higher level.
 
steve_k":1somvshu said:
Josh,

Can't you dial in some hiss and noise like an SLO? :lol: :LOL: :lol: :LOL: :lol: :LOL: :lol: :LOL:


Maybe your SLO has hiss and noise... :lol: :LOL:

Very nice clips JCJ. :thumbsup:
 
jcj":1qa8lnzd said:
As to whether it sounds and feels like a "tube amp", I've played and owned tons of tube amps, and some of them sound and feel like shit, so that's wide open for debate. :D

I will say that for me, the Axe actually sounds and feels better than any LOW VOLUME tube amp I've ever played. If I couldn't open up my tube amps, I wouldn't own them; they ALL sound shitty to me at low volume.

Same experience here. :yes:
 
Wow... I totally missed this thread... needless to say I got banned (again) from the FAS forum for posting "truthful" information...

continued...
 
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