The future of rock guitar rigs...

[nevusofota]

Music gear is different than other tools. The origins of rock music instrumentation (guitars and amps) will always be sought after. Such as a Les Paul will always be the iconic rock guitar, tube amps (i.e Marshalls) will always be the epitome of the rock tone AND look. You will never take away the origins of a genre, and these tools will always be revered and used.

 

[Atropos_Project]

For the local shows I occasionally go to, it's always amps being used.

 

[ejecta]

They can't. The days of running 100w tube amps in clubs are over. Everybody I know that uses one is a bedroom guitarist.

Guys I know that are gigging consistently are using modelers or lower wattage amps, for both FOH ease of use and home recording. There just isn't any place that a 100w amp is even feasible for use anymore. How many of us are actually playing stadiums? I know I'm not, and I don't know anyone who does. There are clubs here that won't even let you in the door with one. Sound guys just say no.

For home recording use, modelers and lower wattage amps are just easier to use...I can't even hit 1 on a tube amp here. Cops get called lol.

I know there are guys that will always use them, but guitarists that are coming up now will have grown up using modelers and that's where they're gonna be the most comfortable.

100 watt heads with good PPIMVs can be used anywhere and sound different and better than low watt amps for certain kinds of music.

Steve

I have been playing 100 watt 1/2 stacks for years everywhere from church to small clubs to outdoor events where you could crank it up to 11. Get the right amp and it will sound good at any volume.

Absolutely correct. I did it for years around Nashville with no complaints from sound guys.

I don't go to many shows anymore but in my experience 99% of them were using amps. The only show I saw that mostly direct guitar wise was the Deftones and Periphery show and the best guitar tone was Chino's and he was playing through an Orange. Stephen's and Periphery's tones were just so so IMHO.

 

['63-Strat]

They can't. The days of running 100w tube amps in clubs are over. Everybody I know that uses one is a bedroom guitarist.

Guys I know that are gigging consistently are using modelers or lower wattage amps, for both FOH ease of use and home recording. There just isn't any place that a 100w amp is even feasible for use anymore. How many of us are actually playing stadiums? I know I'm not, and I don't know anyone who does. There are clubs here that won't even let you in the door with one. Sound guys just say no.

For home recording use, modelers and lower wattage amps are just easier to use...I can't even hit 1 on a tube amp here. Cops get called lol.

I know there are guys that will always use them, but guitarists that are coming up now will have grown up using modelers and that's where they're gonna be the most comfortable.

LOL.

Do you gig or tour? I assume not. But while I agree tons of bedroom-only guitarists have 100 watt amps so do guys that actually use them live. I use my xtc rig in cover bands and original bands and never have an issue of being too loud. Being too loud is operator error has nothing to do with the wattage. Even when I use backline guess what... usually 100 watt tube amps!

 

[Mesa\Kramer]

100 watt 1/2 stack still the industry standard for Rock/HR/Metal

 

[the rossness]

In my band, I use a small, lightweight bass amp. The lead guitarist plays a modeling combo and our other guitarist plays a bogner ecstasy 1/2 stack. I think the future is what you make it and can be whatever you want.

 

[rocknrolla]

The way I see it going is future will be tube amps with lower wattage that still are loud but with a more useable volume spread. I'd also guess that many more amp manufacturers will be including better direct outs on their amps like the Mesa Cab Clone or a Two Notes Torpedo.

 

[Kevin11]

I still see plenty of 100w half stacks around these parts. I still run an XTC and one or two 4x12 cabs, smallest clubs to big outdoor shows. Never a complaint. I do see more and more Axe FX rigs these days. Have yet to see anyone around here gigging with a Kemper. Of all the Axe rigs, I've only heard one guy recently who cut through and sounded good. That guy is a tone/gear freak and knows his stuff. Spent a LOT of time dialing it in. He was running completely direct, with an Atomic CLR for his monitor. The rest are just like I've heard others describe here; buried, anemic, no punch, no guts.

We'll see a day soon where digital rigs will be the norm. I liken it to reading a book on a mobile device instead of an actual book. Digital may never fully replace analog, but rigs like the Axe and Kemper are conceptually a guitarists dream. The tones will get better. Interfaces will improve. The convenience factor alone is already shifting the trend in that direction. I'm a dyed-in-the-wool, old-school tube amp freak and I'm even considering a digital option to mess around with.

 

[DannyM]

The death of tube amps as we know them reminds me of the "pc gaming is dead" or "the death of the pc" chicken little battle cry when console gaming and tablets were the cool thing.
Even though profiling amps and model amps are cool, they will never replace the real thing. EVER! /thread ....LOL

 

[Steinmetzify]

LOL.

Do you gig or tour? I assume not. But while I agree tons of bedroom-only guitarists have 100 watt amps so do guys that actually use them live. I use my xtc rig in cover bands and original bands and never have an issue of being too loud. Being too loud is operator error has nothing to do with the wattage. Even when I use backline guess what... usually 100 watt tube amps!

You can assume. You'd be wrong, but go ahead.

The point of the thread isn't what we're doing now, at least that's not how I read it. Dude wants to know what we think the future holds. For me, I just think tube amps are gonna go the way of the dinosaur. There's almost no point anymore...the better the Axe and Kemper get, the easier they get to use, the more guys are going to go that route instead of carrying around 50 lb tube heads and 100 lb cabs....if it sounds 99% as good, why would you bother? If you can get almost there soundwise, and cover a multitude of styles and use 1 foot controller, there you go.

For guys on a budget that need their live rigs to cover home recording duties as well, the Axe is a complete interface and the Kemper needs one, but that's it...no mics, no cabs, no positioning or learning positioning to get the best mic'd tones for your rig, etc and so forth.

Like I said....I think for the guys that came up in the 80s playing hair metal or thrash, yeah...actual amps are always gonna be the first choice, but personally I know guys now who are 15-20 years younger and gigging using modelers and have never even touched an actual tube amp. Dino from Fear Factory used to record entire albums with a POD; this is what younger generations are listening to and emulating...plus, their guitar heroes (Petrucci, Townsend, Cazares, Carpenter, etc) are using modelers and uploading their tones...you can use the exact same tones live that your guitar heroes do when covering their tunes, and I know a lot of guys that dig that.

Shit, even the big guys are coming out with low wattage options with direct outs, cab emulations, etc...they're forward thinkers; they have to be. They can see where the trends are heading, and for a 25w amp that can run double duty as a recording device? They're setting up for their future markets....get em young, get em hooked on the tone, and continue to provide low cost easy to use all in one solutions. The Mesa Mark V 25w is a good example of this.

tl;dr: old guys will always use tube amps, but in the future people will think they're interchangeable with modelers as far as tone goes.

 

[thegame]

but guitarists that are coming up now will have grown up using modelers and that's where they're gonna be the most comfortable.

Making it more possible than ever for players to have perfect pitch and still be tone deaf.

 

[JimmyBlind]

Given how accurate modern amp modelling is nowadays, if you're a touring musician or care about laying down quality guitar tracks without waking the neighbors, modelers are really a no-brainer. The cost, maintenance, consistence & logistical benefits are undeniable.

I don't run a home studio nowadays & I'm not performing anymore, so I can't justify purchasing an AxeFX or Kemper at this stage. Additionally, I can't utilize any way near the limitless spectrum of sounds contained within them.
Guitar tone does matter to me though & I am a purist. I prefer the sound, feel, power & assurance I get from a quality tube amp & pedals.

The valve amplifier should stand the test of time, so long as people care about the origins of electric guitar tone and why that sound, the sound of tube amp distortion, is the definitive sound of the electric guitar.
I only hope that we don't completely digitize every creative medium in our lives. There is a next generation of players, many of which don't appear to appreciate the evolution of guitar tone or understand why anyone might want a 59 LP & plug it into a marshall.

I watch videos about Mike Soldano & Paul Gilbert etc (eg) & all the amazing people that have really contributed to the evolution of the electric guitar. The pioneering electric guitar & shred players all have traditional roots like blues at the heart of their playing & they are all really well seasoned & tasteful players as a result.
Now there appears to be a paradigm shift towards digital equipment & no real appreciation of why it sounds like it does. There aren't many next generation electronics majors in workshops evolving electric guitar tone. It's a computer now, & that's it. Who cares how it works or how many decades of electronics experts have tinkered with circuit boards & valves to create these unique sounds? Now you just twist a couple of knobs on a synthesizer.

Modern & unconventional tech metal is becoming more focal to the next generation of guitar players. Not that change & pushing the envelope is ever a bad thing, but the musical & technical skill set acquired by the great players was founded on musical convention.
The sound of modern metal production is now so massively over produced & digitally reliant that it couldn't, arguably, be recorded & mixed conventionally to anywhere near that level of precision. The standard of electric guitar playing & general musical appreciation might take a turn for the worse in the same way that no notable modern orchestral composers are writing works anywhere near as creatively wonderful as composers from literally hundreds of years ago.
Written on manuscript, by hand with a quill I might add.

Mediums that haven't been earned or undergone any sort of organic journey tend to sound sterile. I think we need to keep hold of the founding musical & technological roots of the electric guitar. This includes the tube amplifier.

 

[tripstan]

Some guys have recording rigs and live rigs. Others use just one rig for everything. I think it all depends on the artist and what tone and feel they want that rig to have.

I still use 100 and 50 watt heads with a 2x12. I like a lot of headroom. Pretty dang hard to get massive clean headroom with a 18-20 watt amp. Torpedo, Fryette Power Station and Mesa cab clone are a big part of future rigs and are here to stay.

I also see a lot of the modeler guys going back to running their Axe or Kemper into a power amp and 4x12 or 2x12. You are never going to be able to emulate the feel that a 2x12 or 4x12 gives pushing all that air. Animals as Leaders, Periphery and Deftones are all using Axe into a real guitar cab for their stage tone. FHO is still direct I believe.

More players are using modelers and they are becoming a part of the norm for the future but tube amps will never become extinct. It's where it all began.

In the end music is art and it's up to the artist to choice what tool fits the job.

This

In my band, I use a small, lightweight bass amp. The lead guitarist plays a modeling combo our other guitarist plays a bogner ecstasy 1/2 stack. I think the future is what you make it and can be whatever you want.

 

[stephen sawall]

Since rock is pretty much dead..... I do not see the rigs people use to perform it changing much. Most bands I see that still perform this type of music use jcm 900 or line 6. If I still was playing rock I would probably use a Fender or Marshall..... Since those are the amps that have been used the most for that style.

 

[thiswaythatway]

Sound guys don't care what you are using unless they have to load and unload it, and volume. If you carry your own amps in and out and can control your volume then that's all that matters.

I had volume wars with sound guys long before Fractal and Kemper were around but I wouldn't be comfortable playing with an Axe out. I like having instant access to any pedal for knob twisting and whatnot. I wouldn't be caught scrolling through a menu on a dark stage.

 

[ejecta]

Of all the Axe rigs, I've only heard one guy recently who cut through and sounded good. That guy is a tone/gear freak and knows his stuff. Spent a LOT of time dialing it in. He was running completely direct, with an Atomic CLR for his monitor. The rest are just like I've heard others describe here; buried, anemic, no punch, no guts.

That's exactly how I felt about the guitars at that Deftones show.

 

['63-Strat]

LOL.

Do you gig or tour? I assume not. But while I agree tons of bedroom-only guitarists have 100 watt amps so do guys that actually use them live. I use my xtc rig in cover bands and original bands and never have an issue of being too loud. Being too loud is operator error has nothing to do with the wattage. Even when I use backline guess what... usually 100 watt tube amps!

You can assume. You'd be wrong, but go ahead.

The point of the thread isn't what we're doing now, at least that's not how I read it. Dude wants to know what we think the future holds. For me, I just think tube amps are gonna go the way of the dinosaur. There's almost no point anymore...the better the Axe and Kemper get, the easier they get to use, the more guys are going to go that route instead of carrying around 50 lb tube heads and 100 lb cabs....if it sounds 99% as good, why would you bother? If you can get almost there soundwise, and cover a multitude of styles and use 1 foot controller, there you go.

The bulk of your first post wasn't about the future though, it was about current use:

"They can't. The days of running 100w tube amps in clubs are over. Everybody I know that uses one is a bedroom guitarist.

"Guys I know that are gigging consistently are using modelers or lower wattage amps, for both FOH ease of use and home recording. There just isn't any place that a 100w amp is even feasible for use anymore. How many of us are actually playing stadiums? I know I'm not, and I don't know anyone who does. There are clubs here that won't even let you in the door with one. Sound guys just say no."

That part is just untrue. Sound guy wouldn't let me in the door with a 100 watt head? Sorry I'm not buying it at all, lol. That said I'm not against the kemper or axe fx II, I've heard some bands sound great using them but that's only in larger venues where they had their own sound guy. In those size venues you can use whatever you want anyways, it's a tonal choice not a volume choice. Definitely a good option when recording too. But I've got a gig at the obervatory/galaxy theater on the 23rd, no way will I be using anything other than a 100 watt tube amp. YMMV.

 

[Steinmetzify]

Also, I wanted to point out that we as guitar players are a small microcosm of people that play....meaning the guys like us that jones after tones.

Most of the guys I know that are in gigging bands rock no name gear, SS heads and cheap cabs, or a 6505 head. I've talked to guys who have no idea what a Diezel or a Bogner or AxeFx or Kemper even IS. It's easy to think that everybody knows all the shit we know, but they don't, and it's US that worries about it, not the audience. Random people in clubs don't know the difference between all the minutiae that we obsess over.

 

[anomaly]

There will always be players that just use a amp, a cab, maybe a pedal or two, and let 'er rip. Most of the pro guitarists I'm a fan of, do just that.

Not to say modellers won't have their place, especially for people that like convenience.

 

[thegame]

Given how accurate modern amp modelling is nowadays, if you're a touring musician or care about laying down quality guitar tracks without waking the neighbors, modelers are really a no-brainer. The cost, maintenance, consistence & logistical benefits are undeniable.

I don't run a home studio nowadays & I'm not performing anymore, so I can't justify purchasing an AxeFX or Kemper at this stage. Additionally, I can't utilize any way near the limitless spectrum of sounds contained within them.
Guitar tone does matter to me though & I am a purist. I prefer the sound, feel, power & assurance I get from a quality tube amp & pedals.

The valve amplifier should stand the test of time, so long as people care about the origins of electric guitar tone and why that sound, the sound of tube amp distortion, is the definitive sound of the electric guitar.
I only hope that we don't completely digitize every creative medium in our lives. There is a next generation of players, many of which don't appear to appreciate the evolution of guitar tone or understand why anyone might want a 59 LP & plug it into a marshall.

I watch videos about Mike Soldano & Paul Gilbert etc (eg) & all the amazing people that have really contributed to the evolution of the electric guitar. The pioneering electric guitar & shred players all have traditional roots like blues at the heart of their playing & they are all really well seasoned & tasteful players as a result.
Now there appears to be a paradigm shift towards digital equipment & no real appreciation of why it sounds like it does. There aren't many next generation electronics majors in workshops evolving electric guitar tone. It's a computer now, & that's it. Who cares how it works or how many decades of electronics experts have tinkered with circuit boards & valves to create these unique sounds? Now you just twist a couple of knobs on a synthesizer.

Modern & unconventional tech metal is becoming more focal to the next generation of guitar players. Not that change & pushing the envelope is ever a bad thing, but the musical & technical skill set acquired by the great players was founded on musical convention.
The sound of modern metal production is now so massively over produced & digitally reliant that it couldn't, arguably, be recorded & mixed conventionally to anywhere near that level of precision. The standard of electric guitar playing & general musical appreciation might take a turn for the worse in the same way that no notable modern orchestral composers are writing works anywhere near as creatively wonderful as composers from literally hundreds of years ago.
Written on manuscript, by hand with a quill I might add.

Mediums that haven't been earned or undergone any sort of organic journey tend to sound sterile. I think we need to keep hold of the founding musical & technological roots of the electric guitar. This includes the tube amplifier.

That was very beautifully worded and well said