The future of rock guitar rigs...

[IceMan]

I don't see why Fractal hasn't made a cheaper and simpler version of the Axe-FX. Simplify the firmware to only the basic essentials that are easy for the less technically minded. Perhaps they don't feel as if that is a viable market for them? They could see Line 6 as a dominator in the budget modeling market, and are afraid of losing money to them. But to me the Fractal stuff sounds so much better than the Line 6 stuff. I would think there would be a market for a product like that.

The same concept would apply to Kemper too. Sell a smaller, cheaper Kemper with less features and a more streamlined software set. Maybe cut costs by taking out the ability to profile live amps on the device. The cheaper version could just offer the profiles, and let users download more. Same basic product without the ability to profile amps on your own, and removing some of the "high level" tools from the on board firmware. I'm not sure if that would lower the price enough though, or again, if there is a big enough market for such a device.

Because they make more money on the high dollar units. There is more market demand for what you describe, I believe, and that would mean that a lot of dudes would forego saving for the big dog and just get the cheaper unit. They know if they put out a smaller, cheaper unit, guys would buy that instead of forking out the big bucks for the units that cost them next to nothing to load all those software models into them and command a high price. The cost for the company is in the hardware and the cost of producing it. I could maybe see them putting out some kind of small floor unit that has a few basic models/effects - kind of like what Line 6 did with the M9 - in order to get their products into more hands and hoping that those customers will eventually step up to the big unit. But I won't hold my breath........

 

[Elric]

I don't see why Fractal hasn't made a cheaper and simpler version of the Axe-FX. Simplify the firmware to only the basic essentials that are easy for the less technically minded. Perhaps they don't feel as if that is a viable market for them? They could see Line 6 as a dominator in the budget modeling market, and are afraid of losing money to them. But to me the Fractal stuff sounds so much better than the Line 6 stuff. I would think there would be a market for a product like that.

The same concept would apply to Kemper too. Sell a smaller, cheaper Kemper with less features and a more streamlined software set. Maybe cut costs by taking out the ability to profile live amps on the device. The cheaper version could just offer the profiles, and let users download more. Same basic product without the ability to profile amps on your own, and removing some of the "high level" tools from the on board firmware. I'm not sure if that would lower the price enough though, or again, if there is a big enough market for such a device.

Because they make more money on the high dollar units. There is more market demand for what you describe, I believe, and that would mean that a lot of dudes would forego saving for the big dog and just get the cheaper unit.

Nope. The problem here is that stripping down the software (provided you have already developed it as is the case here) does NOTHING to decrease the cost of a device and in fact increases development and maintenance costs. People on guitar forums have been saying this stuff for years about digital: I don't NEED 32 models! Take 16 out and sell it to me for HALF PRICE! The reason manufacturers never listen is because it's stupid. Units like the Fractal and the Kemper's prices are not gated by their software content. Ripping out some portion of already developed functionality does zero to reduce their cost of bringing a product to you to sell and support. Units like the Fractal and the Kemper are expensive because they are very high quality devices with expensive bills of materials that require significant R&D; not because they "contain" X features or models.

The AX8 will be Fractal's "cheap" unit; but most folks will not consider it as such. The Helix is L6's shot at a high end unit and, lo and behold, it is $1500... based on the video had multiple engineers working on it for years. They are doing the MIC thing and still are charging 1.5K because it contains two high quality DSPs, two microcontrollers, and a bunch of I/O, it only has the HD model set (completely rewritten). New models for the HX format will likely cost because they would require new R&D to happen.

 

[bgh]

If I had to bet on what the future of guitar rigs holds, it's this................eventually, the AxFx and Kemper will have TUBES IN THEM!!!! LOL!!!!!

Look, if you are old enough to remember - and I am BARELY old enough - when the first solid-state amps came out in the late '70's, the "End of tube amps" was heralded from every mountain top. When Line 6 released their first Axsys amp back in the '90's......all I heard was "it's the end of tube amps!!!" Guess what......we still have tube amps. And companies like Line 6 end up putting out TUBE AMPS!!!!! lol I predict that eventually the technology will hit a wall and Fractal and Kemper will discover what they can do if they add tubes to their modelers and then look out!

Modeling has come a LONG way and they are very powerful and completely usable tools however you choose to use them. But they are just that.....tools. Just like amps. All I see in the future is just MORE OPTIONS! If you don't want to deal with lugging a huge tube amp to gigs - you can get a Kemper. If you hate digital stuff.....you can stay with good old amps!!! There are no rules and I think the people who are open to trying new things will be able to take advantage of emerging technologies and integrate them with their existing amps/rigs.

The future is bright.......

I'm with you. I'm old enough to well remember when SS amps came out in the 70s. I tried one myself (Peavey Musician). I see the best features of each technology being merged into something new. Peavey had a good thing with their Vypyr modeling amps that had tube PIs and power sections. They sounded much better than the SS power sections. With their new line of modelers, they have gotten away from it. I wonder if that was a mistake.

 

[RevDrucifer]

Here in South Florida I see two main types of rigs-

Original heavy bands- Half-stacks, usually a Mesa or 5150, generally 100 watt heads though. My guitarist are using all Orange gear, they've each got 100 watt half stacks but also have those tiny heads they've got with a 2x12 for smaller venues. They are so anti-digital anything it's ridiculous.

Cover bands- This is where I see the most modeling gear and it's funny because these guys don't really use too many sounds but there's almost always a Line6 pedalboard onstage and a Line6 amp somewhere onstage. Only time I've seen a Fractal was a metal band a couple years back....I know they're down here, I just never see them.

For a new band who is actually trying to 'make it' (whatever that means these days) it's silly NOT to go digital. If you've got 4-5 guys in a van, you need room and less shit to break your back between shows and there's options out there for that. If I were to start my own band from ground up where I called the shots, I'd have everyone in one rack and most of the changes synched to a MIDI track but there's a whole other list of reasons of why I'd do that that have little to do with this particular context.

Even established bands are looking towards modeling to help cut costs on shipping. Clint from Sevendust said he's really interested in the Axe but needs more time with one before he consolidates his rig and specifically brought up shipping costs as a reason for the switch. I know they had to cancel an Australia gig last year because they couldn't afford the shipping costs which probably could have been avoided if they were just shipping 3 Axe-FX's and a drum kit over.

 

[PBGas]

I've had a few Kempers along the way. They work nicely and are convenient. Two of them had issiues. The one was great. FOH is good. Monitoring on stage is another story. Couldn't get it right at all.

I take my Tube head with a 2 space rack that has my power conditioner and 2Notes Live as well as a small board and I'm good to go for a gig. If I need a cab, then I bring it. It sounds great and sounds exactly like what I want. I'd like a nice clean, good crunch and a lead tone.

What I don't need is to be searching for the next best profile. Anyone who says they don't do this at some point is 100% FOS. THis is why there are profilers selling their wears and popping up everywhere.

Still, at some point we would be foolish to think that modelling is going away. I use the Friedman UAD stuff and it is fantastic. I also like Bias and Bias FX and use it regularly. As it continues to develop and improve, I don't see why it couldn't replace my live setup.

 

[lll]

I've never been a fan of modelers, but recently the first modeler that impressed me was Positive Grid's BIAS Desktop. It gives you the "feel"; unlike so many others.

Still not as good as a real tube amp but it's the best I've tried. Maybe someday they'll have this whole
tube emulation thing down perfectly...

 

[fretout]

I'm going to try to stay true to the original point of the thread and say that I think the future for us guitarists looks digital. We're already seeing a shortage of actual tubes, and with so many factories shutting down, and the quality of the current tubes not being as great as the older varieties, I see digital amps being the new amps of the future.

I think guitar companies will continue to try to come up with new ways to improve guitars we want to stay true to their original designs, and charging an even higher price for the guitars with stone-age features. But, there's hope in the "independent luthier" field because of all the advancements we see in tools that allow the hobbyist to duplicate traditional guitars nearly identical to the guitars of the 50s. So, I think the big guitar builders (like Gibson) will see lower and lower sales while the small luthiers will be the guitars most people want.

As far as the music industry goes, I think things will continue to decline. Back in high school, bands were selling millions of records and getting some decent paychecks. I think there was more freedom for bands to make songs that challenged the status quo, and we had more creativity as a whole. Nowadays, it's near impossible to move a million copies of an album outside the mainstream pop crowd, and bands these days aren't concerned with making a great album, they just want a couple radio songs to last them until the next album cycle. With the industry making less money, they don't take as many risks to bring some greats bands into the limelight. I also think that there's a lot of dissension within rock/metal fans and what "genre" they'll accept, which limits us. This is all a long way of saying that I think pop music will continue to grow in exposure and become even more prominent, while rock music will nearly be completely underground, and the only rock acts that are mainstream are the bands that are defined as classic rock. The newer bands that are on local radio are almost as "cookie-cutter" sounding as pop music. You'll have bands like Avenged Sevenfold that will copy their influences, and you'll have bands like Five Finger Death Punch where you literally can't tell one of their singles from the next. Look at where we are at now...those two bands have a lot of metal fans that can't stand them (sometimes for very valid reasons), and a large percentage of metal fans clamor for a new Tool record, or are hanging on Metallica's every news update. The last time anyone got excited about a newer "big" band was when Mastodon or AIC release records.

 

[billsbigego]

After having a few tube amps, the modeling shit just doesn't do it for me. I'm contemplating a Kemper, but I'm wondering if it will lack that tube warmth / dynamic present in tube amps.

 

[paulyc]

I bought a Ceriatone 50 watt King Kong and had a pentode/triode switch installed for lower volumes, and I have an attenuator if I need to shave 3 or so db off the top. This is run W/D/W with an old Fawn Marshall cab with 25 watt greenbacks as the center cab, and 2 Mesa Boogie traditional vertical 2x12s with newer English made V30s . The head and all effects (pedals and an Eventide H3000) are housed in a 2 space amp head flight case. The only effect in the loop is a Rockman Smart Gate, the pedals are all in front of the amp in an RJM Effect Gizmo controlled by a GCX Ground Control (except my Vox wah wah which is out on the pedal board). The power amp for the 2 wet cabs is an old single space Marshall Valvestate 40/40. To me this is the ultimate set up. I don't like modeling stuff, I'd rather have the real thing. My .02

 

[Zachman]

I guess I am now considered 'old school' by some, and I'm actually okay w/ that. I've been using most of this stuff since the 80's and have enjoyed the opportunities to build, and program rigs for friends and customers who use the Axe and Line6 modeling stuff. They sound good to me, but my friends and customers, apparently preferred the sound of the real stuff, when A/B comparisons (at their request) took place.

 

[stephen sawall]

Digital is OK and useful. It also adds possibly of options of some things that could be done no other way. I still have one old digital rack unit still...... I just have not plugged it in for a few years. Just a other tool.

Bottom line is rock is dead. Guitar is on the way out. Both of these things have been replaced. They are both still around..... But not the future.

 

[rupe]

The desire for tube amps will never die...unfortunately tube manufacturing will (and it's likely to happen in our lifetimes). Once the machines and tooling wear out, they can't be replaced in an economically feasible manner...kinda like the Concorde, they will cease to exist.