The future of rock guitar rigs...

  • Thread starter Thread starter tubortski
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I've got another band in my rehearsal studio that has a stupid amount of higher end tube amps, and custom one off-hand built heads... they run freaking Sunn Beta leads to sound like Red Fang...

Some one posted in the thread previously" Get the right amp for the situation/tone" (Seriously three pages of comments, couldn't find the comment,lol) I think thats spot on. If your area is full of inept sound men who can't handle stage volume or won't let you use a 100/50 watter... Then modeling is probably your best bet. If you've got your own sound guy or a rotation of clubs with great in house sound guys... run the 100 watters. In my area its still common practice for the 100 watt half or fullstack.
 
I also think those who are just starting to play guitar in the last several years who don't have access to tube amps and are learning on modelers will not be used to / expecting tube feel and experience. Just like modelers with the full signal chain is a "foreign" experience for those used to amp in the room, tube feel and using tube amps; tube feel, amps / amp in the room will be a "foreign" experience to those used to modelers.

The end of tube amp domination is inevitable.
 
rsm":15oi63l9 said:
I also think those who are just starting to play guitar in the last several years who don't have access to tube amps and are learning on modelers will not be used to / expecting tube feel and experience.
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Good point.
 
How do other instruments compare?

Bass guitar. Ampeg SVT and 8x10's. Lots of fun for load in and tear down. Markbass has the Bass Multiamp S. Mark
bass no longer makes the 610 or 810, which was easily 30-50 pounds lighter than Ampeg cabs.

Keyboards. Unless your tour can pay for room on a semi to transport a Hammond B3, Leslie cab, Rhodes...you're probably rocking a Nord or workstation.

Drums are where we are at. Probably playing acoustic kits (100Watt stacks) till the end of time. But, Roland V-drums have been around for 10 years and keep getting better.

DJ. Laptop and some hard drives filled with music files, plus some controllers. Done.
 
Many bassists have been going direct for many years, and many embraced solid state back in the day; back in the day my main bass rig (full ADA bass rig) had a DI out of the MB-1 to FOH, and I used the bi-amp stack for stage volume. Since I sold that, I've been going direct out with various boxes such as a Tech21 Programmable Bass Driver DI, my old Trace Elliot MP-11 preamp (which I still have), Trace Elliot GP12SMX preamp, Zoom B3, and my main bass rig today is a TC Electronic RH450 which is a head, but I just use the direct out to FRFR, no bass cabs.
 
Forgot about TC, futuristic designs.

DI is cool but some guys gotta feel it, right?!?!

Also, not all gigs happen at a venue that has it's own system. Basement shows and very small clubs, you are mic'ing vox, kick, snare and leaving the rest to cranking amps...
 
an amp with 10 gain stages and reverb springs 3 feet long... not really.
 
I don't see why Fractal hasn't made a cheaper and simpler version of the Axe-FX. Simplify the firmware to only the basic essentials that are easy for the less technically minded. Perhaps they don't feel as if that is a viable market for them? They could see Line 6 as a dominator in the budget modeling market, and are afraid of losing money to them. But to me the Fractal stuff sounds so much better than the Line 6 stuff. I would think there would be a market for a product like that.

The same concept would apply to Kemper too. Sell a smaller, cheaper Kemper with less features and a more streamlined software set. Maybe cut costs by taking out the ability to profile live amps on the device. The cheaper version could just offer the profiles, and let users download more. Same basic product without the ability to profile amps on your own, and removing some of the "high level" tools from the on board firmware. I'm not sure if that would lower the price enough though, or again, if there is a big enough market for such a device.
 
3D printed guitar into smartphone/tablet and digital pedalboard to monitor/FOH.
 
supersonic":2wtuors8 said:
depechex":2wtuors8 said:
Kemper is there right now, so close it's crazy. Add to the mix that touring around is definitely easier if you're carrying lighter and digital units. Tube amps are HEAVY, too heavy sometimes.
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Pffft, pussy!
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Tools like Kemper would make my life MUCH easier. I'm definitely open to it, it helps.
 
I personnaly prefer the Real Thing but I also think that like anything else, $$$$, the market and the taste of the next generations will guide what will happend. My 3 young nephews between 13 and 21 that plays guitars like the sound of my Mesa in a 4 x 12 but they are the electronic and computor generations so they prefer to deal with the Axe or whatever works like computors! Here in my small place in Canada, everybody plays with amp simulators in clubs for covers bands. The only one that still used their big thing are the bands that plays their personnal music or the tribute bands witch is pretty rare here.
 
I understand advantages of Axe FX or Kemper, it's really great to have only light, portable device, that can do it all and sound great, when you're on tour, but it still can't beat feel and joy of good old rig with amp, pedals and cab.

I'm kind of that young kid (even I'll turn 30 this year :) ) that play modern metal
 
Real tube amps will never die. There will ALWAYS be a market. Similar to the classic car enthusiast is to the classic car market.
 
prsplayer86":1t0skqfd said:
I've got another band in my rehearsal studio that has a stupid amount of higher end tube amps, and custom one off-hand built heads... they run freaking Sunn Beta leads to sound like Red Fang...

Some one posted in the thread previously" Get the right amp for the situation/tone" (Seriously three pages of comments, couldn't find the comment,lol) I think thats spot on. If your area is full of inept sound men who can't handle stage volume or won't let you use a 100/50 watter... Then modeling is probably your best bet. If you've got your own sound guy or a rotation of clubs with great in house sound guys... run the 100 watters. In my area its still common practice for the 100 watt half or fullstack.
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In my area too..never have an issue running real cabs with real volume in clubs.Even in a state of the art church with massive lineray hanging,a 62,000.00 board, and in ears,they tried amp modeling-liked it..some,it wasn't bad..I then brought in a 1968 fender bandmaster reverb,into a 2x12 cab,fully cranked and hidden in a room, multi-miked.All sound crew, even the pastor commented on how much better the guitar sound was.I'll stick with this till theres no other choice.(nothing against modelers either).
 
sah5150":3ltdulon said:
billsbigego":3ltdulon said:
spliffsperlunk":3ltdulon said:
sah5150":3ltdulon said:
Steinmetzify":3ltdulon said:
They can't. The days of running 100w tube amps in clubs are over. Everybody I know that uses one is a bedroom guitarist.

Guys I know that are gigging consistently are using modelers or lower wattage amps, for both FOH ease of use and home recording. There just isn't any place that a 100w amp is even feasible for use anymore. How many of us are actually playing stadiums? I know I'm not, and I don't know anyone who does. There are clubs here that won't even let you in the door with one. Sound guys just say no.

For home recording use, modelers and lower wattage amps are just easier to use...I can't even hit 1 on a tube amp here. Cops get called lol.

I know there are guys that will always use them, but guitarists that are coming up now will have grown up using modelers and that's where they're gonna be the most comfortable.
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100 watt heads with good PPIMVs can be used anywhere and sound different and better than low watt amps for certain kinds of music.

Steve
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^^Absolutely^^
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Lugging shit sucks. When I was playing out on a semi-regular basis. I would have 5 guitars. Foot pedal bass cajon, Mesa Mk5 combo, Line6 L3T, pedal board. Bag of strings and shit. Mic stand with microphone, chair. That's about 15 trips from the basement to the car, car to the gig, gig to the car and back to the basement. Now I don't bring the MKV. I just use a damn boss blues driver pedal into the L3T PA and the listeners could care less. One less thing to lug.
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Oh c'mon now... Try lugging this rig around:

JD_3.jpg


Jose Arredondo Modded JCM 800 100 W Head
Two Seymour Duncan Convertible Heads
4 space rack with Roctron Hush 2C, Roland SDE-3000, Furman Graphic EQ
4 Seymour Duncan 4x12s (two are mine, two are the other guitar players so I could hear him)
2 Marshall cabs on the other side for the other guitar player to hear me
Two guitars
Bag of strings and tuners, cables and other crap
Bag of gay outfits
Makeup

Total of 8 4x12 cabs for me and the other guitar player :D

You guys have it easy now! Of course, we actually had high school kids who acted as roadies lugging the gear in/out who hung around for the beer and chicks... Honestly, it probably took me 3 months of gigs to train my dude to set my shit up right!

:lol: :LOL:

Steve
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steve-that is awesome on many levels.
 
CaseyCor":2b21slzk said:
I don't see why Fractal hasn't made a cheaper and simpler version of the Axe-FX. Simplify the firmware to only the basic essentials that are easy for the less technically minded. Perhaps they don't feel as if that is a viable market for them? They could see Line 6 as a dominator in the budget modeling market, and are afraid of losing money to them. But to me the Fractal stuff sounds so much better than the Line 6 stuff. I would think there would be a market for a product like that.

The same concept would apply to Kemper too. Sell a smaller, cheaper Kemper with less features and a more streamlined software set. Maybe cut costs by taking out the ability to profile live amps on the device. The cheaper version could just offer the profiles, and let users download more. Same basic product without the ability to profile amps on your own, and removing some of the "high level" tools from the on board firmware. I'm not sure if that would lower the price enough though, or again, if there is a big enough market for such a device.
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This. If Fractal or Kemper could get a smaller unit for around 1K I think it would corner the market. The problem is, if you spend that much you want to gig with it. And spending 2K, plus an additional $ on powered monitors OR a power amp and the right 4x12, you're up into the 3k range. And for that you can buy the BEST tube amp you've dreamed of owning...or at least most of them. Now, this Atomic Amplifire..I have hopes that this will be a reasonably priced competitor to Axe and Kemper. For 599? That lets you build a small portable rig at a reasonable cost....
 
I think it will probably go to the digital realm, each generation is getting that much better. With that said, I still love my tube amps, but if I was playing out again, I would buy an AXE FX, as it's much less stuff to cart around.
 
If I had to bet on what the future of guitar rigs holds, it's this................eventually, the AxFx and Kemper will have TUBES IN THEM!!!! LOL!!!!!

Look, if you are old enough to remember - and I am BARELY old enough - when the first solid-state amps came out in the late '70's, the "End of tube amps" was heralded from every mountain top. When Line 6 released their first Axsys amp back in the '90's......all I heard was "it's the end of tube amps!!!" Guess what......we still have tube amps. And companies like Line 6 end up putting out TUBE AMPS!!!!! lol I predict that eventually the technology will hit a wall and Fractal and Kemper will discover what they can do if they add tubes to their modelers and then look out!

Modeling has come a LONG way and they are very powerful and completely usable tools however you choose to use them. But they are just that.....tools. Just like amps. All I see in the future is just MORE OPTIONS! If you don't want to deal with lugging a huge tube amp to gigs - you can get a Kemper. If you hate digital stuff.....you can stay with good old amps!!! There are no rules and I think the people who are open to trying new things will be able to take advantage of emerging technologies and integrate them with their existing amps/rigs.

The future is bright....... :rock:
 
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